Social Saturday is BBQ Day V3 - How big is your meat?

[MASShole]

I'm this close to pulling the trigger on a food trailer. Feels....strange.

My first business shut down after nearly 3 years of operating, and it hurt. Two years later, I'm doing this. It's a weird feeling. About a month ago I had a legit PTSD meltdown on a Fri afternoon regarding owning another business, and I was fucking paralyzed. My first business was a franchise, and the franchisor is all hunky dory "we're a family" until you sign, then they're a fucking slumlord and treat you like utter dog shit. I had a FT job, this business, a wife and a kid, and I was killing myself. I realized that with this possible food truck, I can make my own hours! Do my own thing! Not follow any rules besides health codes! It was a freeing moment for sure.

Going into business for yourself is scary, exciting, stressful and rewarding. It's hard to explain unless you've done it. The point is to always be your own boss, and control your own destiny, and if you're successful and can do that, the feeling is like nothing else.

The other unexpected result is that when you own a business, you become part of this fraternity of small business owners you didn't know existed. It's the most amazing resource of knowledge! And you don't know it exists until you become an owner, and get all these unexpected benefits of networking, running a business resources and more. I'm glad I made all of those connections my first time around, so this new venture will launch must faster than before. Great feeling.

Anyway, enjoy your evening gents. I'll be making some brisket and pork belly burnt ends next week for a pop up.

 

[usmctanker242]

@MASShole Sorry to hear about things going poorly with one of your ventures, but I'm glad you're moving forward. Good luck with the food trailer!

 

[MASShole]

@MASShole Sorry to hear about things going poorly with one of your ventures, but I'm glad you're moving forward. Good luck with the food trailer!

It happens. I owned a franchise, and as of today there should be nearly 50 open, and only 28 are. Just this year I think 5 have closed, 1 changed names. It was incredibly poor franchise management and communication about expectations. Our first year we did just over 50% of projections! It was all down hill from there. In the years I owned it I took $20 for a pizza once. That was it. *shrug*

I learned a lot, that's for sure.

 

[DesignedFailure]

I'm this close to pulling the trigger on a food trailer. Feels....strange.

My first business shut down after nearly 3 years of operating, and it hurt. Two years later, I'm doing this. It's a weird feeling. About a month ago I had a legit PTSD meltdown on a Fri afternoon regarding owning another business, and I was fucking paralyzed. My first business was a franchise, and the franchisor is all hunky dory "we're a family" until you sign, then they're a fucking slumlord and treat you like utter dog shit. I had a FT job, this business, a wife and a kid, and I was killing myself. I realized that with this possible food truck, I can make my own hours! Do my own thing! Not follow any rules besides health codes! It was a freeing moment for sure.

Going into business for yourself is scary, exciting, stressful and rewarding. It's hard to explain unless you've done it. The point is to always be your own boss, and control your own destiny, and if you're successful and can do that, the feeling is like nothing else.

The other unexpected result is that when you own a business, you become part of this fraternity of small business owners you didn't know existed. It's the most amazing resource of knowledge! And you don't know it exists until you become an owner, and get all these unexpected benefits of networking, running a business resources and more. I'm glad I made all of those connections my first time around, so this new venture will launch must faster than before. Great feeling.

Anyway, enjoy your evening gents. I'll be making some brisket and pork belly burnt ends next week for a pop up.

I know the frustration when you get big. I own a decent sized construction company and have done re-mod work for Texas Road house,Outback, olive garden. ext. First one was horrible just as bad as when I redid my parents roof. Lets just say it more less manifested down stairs and I wasn't launching any thing lol

Pulled it all through because I knew what I was doing, was just the stress that kinda got to me.

If you did it before you can build it again don't doubt your self. Your doubt in your self is your biggest enemy. If your work or in your case food is good it will speak for its self.

 

[DesignedFailure]

It happens. I owned a franchise, and as of today there should be nearly 50 open, and only 28 are. Just this year I think 5 have closed, 1 changed names. It was incredibly poor franchise management and communication about expectations. Our first year we did just over 50% of projections! It was all down hill from there. In the years I owned it I took $20 for a pizza once. That was it. *shrug*

I learned a lot, that's for sure.

Unless you were actually the owner of the head of those franchises I would just look at it as learning point.

Learn from the bad and make good on what actually worked. I know easier said than done.

 

[MASShole]

Unless you were actually the owner of the head of those franchises I would just look at it as learning point.

Learn from the bad and make good on what actually worked. I know easier said than done.

I owned one franchise. I've been asked to open several other similar stores because people loved the store, but it wasn't worth my time. I learned a ton, and while I have always been a numbers guy, it made me significantly more aware of the numbers in the business. That's one of the big reasons why I'm going to do a food trailer vs food truck instead.

 

[DesignedFailure]

I owned one franchise. I've been asked to open several other similar stores because people loved the store, but it wasn't worth my time. I learned a ton, and while I have always been a numbers guy, it made me significantly more aware of the numbers in the business. That's one of the big reasons why I'm going to do a food trailer vs food truck instead.

Pardon my ignorance but a food trailer you get booked and do a set number where as a food truck you just set up any where and sell your food correct?

 

[MASShole]

Pardon my ignorance but a food trailer you get booked and do a set number where as a food truck you just set up any where and sell your food correct?

Depends on the state, and sometimes the county, really. For us we have to be able to park somewhere and setup, but can do it most places as long as the place allows it. Same for a trailer.

However, my major reasons for doing the trailer vs truck are related to the initial cost of the trailer being significantly less, and not having to worry about mechanical/engine issues like with a truck. I drive a 4Runner and can tow 5000 lbs, and most trailers will be roughly 3000-3500 loaded up. Plus, insurance is so much less expensive with a trailer. I don't want a huge food truck and all the maintenance that goes with it. I want a smaller trailer, with less maintenance and I can accomplish the same goals we have for now. We are super specialty, so the costs of owning a food truck massively outweigh the $$ expectations. If I spend $15k on a food trailer, I know I can make that back the first year. If I spend $80k on a truck, at our rate it will take us 5 years.

A buddy of mine owns 3 food trucks in town. I'm meeting with him soon to discuss dollars and cents, expectations and more.

 

[usmctanker242]

Pardon my ignorance but a food trailer you get booked and do a set number where as a food truck you just set up any where and sell your food correct?

Effectively they are the exact same thing, but trailers are much more roomy and expansive than a food truck. This can also create problems because trucks are usually 7' wide (max) and no more than 20' long. Most food trailers are 8.5' wide and anywhere between 16-30' long depending on how big you want to go. Going longer than 20' can cause issues because lots of places are setup for food trucks which usually aren't longer than 20'. So going with a 30' trailer can limit your options, and there's also the parking issue with such a long trailer. As @MASShole stated food trailers are much more cost effective than a food truck, but that's because the food truck is a whole, self contained, functioning unit.

My food trailer was right at $15K including the shell, the electrical, the plumbing, the tables, flooring, and the smoker. It's a 20' long trailer with a 6' porch and 14' box. I have a 3 bay sink with hand wash station, small under-counter refrigerator, and 2 prep tables. On my porch I had a large "hog style" smoker along with a warming cabinet (cabinet turned out to be a 100% piece of shit...it's now in my back yard rusting to death).

@MASShole, where are you coming up with the 3500Lb weight for a loaded trailer? Mine's very "bare bones" and it's roughly 7000Lbs when I've got my food, water, and minimal dry goods on it. I don't have a large refrigerator, my water tanks are 21/16 gallons (grey/fresh) and those are extremely small for food trailers. Since my trailer is so "bare bones" I'm still having issues with Environmental Health because they think there's not enough equipment to run a food business. I've explained to them my menu, how BBQ is simple, how I cook EVERYTHING on the smoker on the porch, but they insist I need at least a fryer and a griddle.

Here's a link to Imgur album I made when I first got my food trailer.

 

[MASShole]

@MASShole, where are you coming up with the 3500Lb weight for a loaded trailer? Mine's very "bare bones" and it's roughly 7000Lbs when I've got my food, water, and minimal dry goods on it. I don't have a large refrigerator, my water tanks are 21/16 gallons (grey/fresh) and those are extremely small for food trailers. Since my trailer is so "bare bones" I'm still having issues with Environmental Health because they think there's not enough equipment to run a food business. I've explained to them my menu, how BBQ is simple, how I cook EVERYTHING on the smoker on the porch, but they insist I need at least a fryer and a griddle.

You're is a lot longer than mine will be, which is probably causing the weight difference. Really I want mine to be 10-12' long, single axle. Also, my state/county says having a 3 sink area is useless because you can't carry much water anyway, so only have an on-demand heater and hand sink, and you're good.

I want a griddle, 4-6 top burner, under counter fridge, hand sink, deli counter, propane tanks, generator area, fresh/grey water (25/30 or 30/36) and a space to pop on my smoker if I want to use it. No fryer, no freezer. If we have space I bought a 16 cu ft fridge/freezer we can throw on there instead of under counter to save money.

Where did you buy yours from? That's a great price!

If you can see this, it's similar to what I want:

 

[Madmick]

What temp do you guys like to smoke your pork ribs? Full rib cut, not short ribs.

Closer to the 170 range, or more towards 250?

 

[DesignedFailure]

What temp do you guys like to smoke your pork ribs? Full rib cut, not short ribs.

Closer to the 170 range, or more towards 250?

I aim for 225. Will get peaks at 250 when new fuel is added at times. 170 seems kinda low IMHO.

 

[Kowboy Karl]

The winery has taken notice of my food pics!

 

[Madmick]

I aim for 225. Will get peaks at 250 when new fuel is added at times. 170 seems kinda low IMHO.

Because it will become too softened by the time it's done, and with lose some of the chew, and just slide off the bone, right?

I think that's what my little brother said. He had a customer who is retired, and just goes around now judging BBQ competitions pretty much nonstop, now. That's who told him they look for the pork or beef to still have a bit of tear when you bite it. 175 is technically high enough to cook it, since pork only need to reach an internal temp of 145, but I'm thinking the danger is it will become too tenderized. I can't think of what else might go wrong so long as it isn't overcooked despite which temp is used. Maybe it will bleed too much fat, or too little. So it could be more tender, but more dry?

 

[DesignedFailure]

Because it will become too softened by the time it's done, and with lose some of the chew, and just slide off the bone, right?

I think that's what my little brother said. He had a customer who is retired, and just goes around now judging BBQ competitions pretty much nonstop, now. That's who told him they look for the pork or beef to still have a bit of tear when you bite it. 175 is technically high enough to cook it, since pork only need to reach an internal temp of 145, but I'm thinking the danger is it will become too tenderized. I can't think of what else might go wrong so long as it isn't overcooked despite which temp is used. Maybe it will bleed too much fat, or too little. So it could be more tender, but more dry?

I was thinking you were talking the temp for the smoker not the meat its self my bad.

I don't use a temperature for ribs I go by the bend test to see if they are done and ready. And yes you want a bit of tear on the ribs you don't want fall off the bone. Temp isn't a great judge even though I did it for fried ribs lol.

Bend test is simple pick em up and if you get a small crack need a bit longer you get a crater in between the meat and bone sauce them up because they are ready to go.

 

[Madmick]

I was thinking you were talking the temp for the smoker not the meat its self my bad.

I don't use a temperature for ribs I go by the bend test to see if they are done and ready. And yes you want a bit of tear on the ribs you don't want fall off the bone. Temp isn't a great judge even though I did it for fried ribs lol.

Bend test is simple pick em up and if you get a small crack need a bit longer you get a crater in between the meat and bone sauce them up because they are ready to go.

No, you were right about that. Of course I don't want the meat at 250 degrees. I'm simply pointing out that 175 will still get the pork to "done".

Lower heat means more time which means more tenderness, as a general rule. So I'm wondering why the higher heat might be superior, and this is what I surmised. Otherwise, if the heat doesn't make a great deal of difference, in most cooking methods, you'll go for the higher heat simply because it's faster. Nobody wants to waste time unnecessarily.

 

[usmctanker242]

You're is a lot longer than mine will be, which is probably causing the weight difference. Really I want mine to be 10-12' long, single axle. Also, my state/county says having a 3 sink area is useless because you can't carry much water anyway, so only have an on-demand heater and hand sink, and you're good.

I want a griddle, 4-6 top burner, under counter fridge, hand sink, deli counter, propane tanks, generator area, fresh/grey water (25/30 or 30/36) and a space to pop on my smoker if I want to use it. No fryer, no freezer. If we have space I bought a 16 cu ft fridge/freezer we can throw on there instead of under counter to save money.

Where did you buy yours from? That's a great price!

If you can see this, it's similar to what I want:

I bought the shell from Blackoutrailers.com which is part of the Freedom Trailers, LLC conglomerate. I think the shell cost $7k with wiring included....LED lights, battery, electric breaks ready, power sockets inside and on the porch, and a breaker box. Otherwise it was completely bare. I picked that up in Cochran, GA and drove it to Charleston, SC to have the rest of the work done : plumbing to include the sinks, water tanks, and propane hot water heater, skinning the walls in white aluminum, tables, a small refrigerator, and then the smoker and warming box. The floors were also skinned out with ATP (aluminum tread plate) . That work was something like $8K or near about and it included a $2K smoker and a $1K warming box.

You'll really need to consult people "in the know" with this kind of thing, but putting that much equipment onto a 3500Lb axle might be an issue. Especially if you're talking about a generator plus 100Lb propane tank(s). That's good shit about not having to have a 3 bay sink as they are not simple to use. I can't submerge the hotel pans in my sink, so getting them sanitized takes a full rotation and it's just time consuming and messy.

Good luck with everything and I'm sure your buddy who's running those food trucks will be able to give you better / more appropriate advice than I would.

 

[usmctanker242]

No, you were right about that. Of course I don't want the meat at 250 degrees. I'm simply pointing out that 175 will still get the pork to "done".

Lower heat means more time which means more tenderness, as a general rule. So I'm wondering why the higher heat might be superior, and this is what I surmised. Otherwise, if the heat doesn't make a great deal of difference, in most cooking methods, you'll go for the higher heat simply because it's faster. Nobody wants to waste time unnecessarily.

BBQ is full of myths of dogma, but generally you can cook any meat at any temp and it will still come out good. I took Tuffy Stone's BBQ class a couple of years ago, and he cooks everything at 300°. During the Q and A session someone asked him about temps and he had a very bold statement : cook temps don't matter as he was practicing cooking BBQ meats at 425° and everything was coming out just as good. There's also the case of Clark Crew BBQ who smoked a brisket in 3 hours at 530° and took 1st place at a KCBS competition.

I cook "low and slow" now because it gives me the time to make adjustments if needed. I've also found that hot spots in cookers are less severe when cooking at lower temps, so this stops me from having to rotate the meat during the cook. The only thing I think you need to watch out for when cooking hot and fast is the sugars in the rubs. Sugars start to burn at about 350°, so if you're using sugar in your rub, you'll want to watch it really closely to make sure you're not burning the sugar and getting a bitter flavor on the meat.

 

[MASShole]

What temp do you guys like to smoke your pork ribs? Full rib cut, not short ribs.

Closer to the 170 range, or more towards 250?

@Madmick
225-250 cooking temp. There's no need to cook at such a low temp (175), as it'll just take a lot longer to be done unnecessarily.

I aim for between 190-200 done temp. for ribs It'll still have some bite then, but will be juicier and will melt in your mouth, not fall off the bone. Technically they're cooked at 145, but they'll be very tough to eat. Once you go over 203, 205, or so that's when you get fall off the bone, or if you leave it in the oven at 170 after cooking for a few hours, it'll fall off the bone (made that mistake once, just a case of bad timing).

For pork ribs I use the 3:2:1 method. https://www.traegergrills.com/recipes/pork/3-2-1-baby-back-ribs. The last 30 I tend to not do a sauce, but rather just have sauces out for people to choose what they want. I also do 225 for the first three hours instead of 180 like they have, so 3:2:1 becomes more like 2:2:30mins. A lot of the time I don't even put sauce on mine when I eat them.

 

[DesignedFailure]

Have any of you ever done lamb ribs? I seem them at the butcher shop today. They remind me of a untrimmed spare rib. So grabbed two slabs pf them.