School shootings

[HunterSdVa29]

the more I read stuff like this and peruse the links for mass shootings or events like that

I can never get over how crazy that Homie that killed those people in the San Ysidro McD's was .......

i'm assuming that was the basis of the Michael Douglas movie Falling Down?

 

[cincymma79]

Well I looked at this list on Wikipedia and although it might not complete, it seems to show that there's a large increase of shootings starting in the 2000s.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

There seems to be an issue and I'm guessing it's probably due to mental health, social issues and access to firearms causing the rise.

Just assuming we aren't going to try and do some liberal snowflake communist gun ban or restriction, what can we do to change this trend? Should we have a culture change with violence in media? Should we change the way we have bullying? What about how we teach responsible gun ownership?

The numbers aren’t good. If you are going by those as we increased gun control the number went up. Gun laws are stricter now than they were in 1950. So if it’s trending up since 2000 we’re having he opposite effect of what we want. Since that’s probably untrue we can assume these number make the opposite argument or aren’t complete. What has changed is running 500 stories about the shooter for a month on tv for ratings


Also the rate hasn’t changed for mass shooting events

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-becoming-more-common/?utm_term=.d1da2b9994cf

 

[Islam Imamate]

Culture of peace.

If this were happening in any other country, Americans would have a lot of opinions on it, especially conservatives. They love to decry other "cultures." But since it's happening at home, where we have to take responsibility for things, it's easier to say nothing can be done.

That's a cynical take but I think its true. We just have a fascination, normalization, and access to firearms that few other developed countries, if any, have and it makes us vulnerable to this.

Personally, I've always felt that these are pretty rare events and that I don't necessarily mind not doing anything. But I have wondered if increasing the presence and use of counselors in schools might help. I never met with my school counselor and I bet many kids can say the same, maybe hiring more and mandating a minimum amount of time with a counselor or each kid each year might help them pick up on outlier cases like these while also helping combat other issues teenagers face(drugs, unsafe sex, abuse, depression/anxiety etc).

The most compelling reason that I’ve come across, and I’ll see if I can find it again, was a paper comparing American and European culture in relation to how well an individual felt a connection to their community. Now I read this paper in college, so I can only offer the summary as I remember it, but basically the gist was that Americans, due to a highly mobile society, don’t tend to interact with neighbors or others in the community on a deep level. Americans tend to view their community more in terms of who their friends are, not who lives near them. Europeans, on the other hand, tend to have a more localized view of community. Those who live near you, even if they aren’t really friends, are people who you should take an interest in. This paper theorized that rehabilitation for prisoners works better in Europe because the inmate leaves prison for a community that will take an active interest in them doing the right thing. So in Europe a neighbor would be more likely to intervene early, if they know there’s a problem, than an American who may not know their neighbor is having a problem until it’s too late. This would apply to school shootings, or really any sort of horrific crime in the US, for many of the same reasons. Take that family in California who locked their kids up. The neighbors said pretty much all the same thing “Quiet family, kept to themselves, didn’t really know them”. That same sentiment gets said about school shooters. No one in the community outside a small handful of people really seem to know anything about the shooters. I saw this when I was working in mental health as well. I would have clients, just 8 or 9 years old, who would run away from home, or self harm. I can’t think of a single neighbor of any of my clients who knew anything about what was going on with them. This isn’t a criticism of American culture, it’s just the byproduct of a huge, diverse, population that’s likely to move on a more frequent basis than Europeans, but it’s something that needs a solution to if we want to improve things like mental health, crime, rehabilitation of prisoners, etc.

That's an interesting point.

 

[cincymma79]

That's a cynical take but I think its true. We just have a fascination, normalization, and access to firearms that few other developed countries, if any, have and it makes us vulnerable to this.

Personally, I've always felt that these are pretty rare events and that I don't necessarily mind not doing anything. But I have wondered if increasing the presence and use of counselors in schools might help. I never met with my school counselor and I bet many kids can say the same, maybe hiring more and mandating a minimum amount of time with a counselor or each kid each year might help them pick up on outlier cases like these while also helping combat other issues teenagers face(drugs, unsafe sex, abuse, depression/anxiety etc).

That's an interesting point.

I lived in japan for three years. They do not know who their next door neighbor is. They do not even notice or acknowledge people on the street. Maybe out in the countryside but nowhere in the city. I have no idea where this community is they are referencing but I don’t think it exists

 

[Gregolian]

I lived in japan for three years. They do not know who their next door neighbor is. They do not even notice or acknowledge people on the street. Maybe out in the countryside but nowhere in the city. I have no idea where this community is they are referencing but I don’t think it exists

That changes as soon as you leave the major population centers of Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, Hiroshima and others.

My mom grew up on Setoda this small island like an hour or so train ride (old school local train, not bullet train) ride from Hiroshima and maybe it wasn't everyone on the island but everyone immediately surrounding her childhood home knew her parents.

 

[DoomPatrol]

A retired Army LtCol wrote a book called On Killing. He addresses those issues. Check it out.

Was on my military reading list a long time ago, but I've also read that it's been widely discredited.

The numbers aren’t good. If you are going by those as we increased gun control the number went up. Gun laws are stricter now than they were in 1950. So if it’s trending up since 2000 we’re having he opposite effect of what we want. Since that’s probably untrue we can assume these number make the opposite argument or aren’t complete. What has changed is running 500 stories about the shooter for a month on tv for ratings


Also the rate hasn’t changed for mass shooting events

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-becoming-more-common/?utm_term=.d1da2b9994cf

Yeah I do think the media has played a role in this. Just all the coverage of gun violence puts it in other people's heads that gun violence could be a solution for them.

 

[cincymma79]

That changes as soon as you leave the major population centers of Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, Hiroshima and others.

My mom grew up on Setoda this small island like an hour or so train ride (old school local train, not bullet train) ride from Hiroshima and maybe it wasn't everyone on the island but everyone immediately surrounding her childhood home knew her parents.

Well sure. In my town I don’t lock my doors at night. We don’t have shootings either. I guess I just don’t buy the community nonsense broadly.

 

[cincymma79]

Was on my military reading list a long time ago, but I've also read that it's been widely discredited.



Yeah I do think the media has played a role in this. Just all the coverage of gun violence puts it in other people's heads that gun violence could be a solution for them.

I heard Jordan Peterson talk briefly about columbine. No detail but he said he understood it.

 

[Mark Cutting]

Was on my military reading list a long time ago, but I've also read that it's been widely discredited.



Yeah I do think the media has played a role in this. Just all the coverage of gun violence puts it in other people's heads that gun violence could be a solution for them.

I read it a few years ago and it made sense to ME, but you know how that goes... It's kinda hard to detach our school shooting stuff from the constant influx of violence in t.v., media, fb, video games, i.m.o.

 

[cincymma79]

I read it a few years ago and it made sense to ME, but you know how that goes... It's kinda hard to detach our school shooting stuff from the constant influx of violence in t.v., media, fb, video games, i.m.o.

Same argument was made about comic books in the 50s

 

[Mark Cutting]

Same argument was made about comic books in the 50s

Ha... I believe it. But there seems to be some correlation, I.m.o

 

[Leagon]

That's a cynical take but I think its true. We just have a fascination, normalization, and access to firearms that few other developed countries, if any, have and it makes us vulnerable to this.

Personally, I've always felt that these are pretty rare events and that I don't necessarily mind not doing anything. But I have wondered if increasing the presence and use of counselors in schools might help. I never met with my school counselor and I bet many kids can say the same, maybe hiring more and mandating a minimum amount of time with a counselor or each kid each year might help them pick up on outlier cases like these while also helping combat other issues teenagers face(drugs, unsafe sex, abuse, depression/anxiety etc).

That's an interesting point.

It's our entire system. I think Dave Chappelle's recent stand up special was a terrifyingly accurate deconstruction of the flaws in American culture. For generations, we have prioritized profit and individual freedom over decency and the collective good. No country is great at this, but America has done the unique task of convincing people that no one has their back and that's how its supposed to be.

Imo, most of the burden of preventing individuals from lashing out falls on the family. But America has made it very clear that the family isn't among its priorities. Bullshit laws keep our men in prison and poor maternity leave keeps women at work. Costs of living put most families living paycheck to paycheck so that both parents have to be employed. We don't have enough holidays or sick leave so that families can spend time together.

America is designed to consume people, not support them. And that's the way most Americans have been conditioned to prefer it.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

We basically have zero school shootings in Europe. Anyone got a reason why?

Seems pretty clearly something other than the simple presence of firearms, since people in Europe also own guns.

What's the reason why Europe relies on American protection rather than devoting more resources toward self-sufficiency? What's the reason America shows tons of violence on tv but no titties, while in Europe it's generally the opposite? Sometimes cultural differences exist without a satisfying understanding of why. And chances are there's a dynamic afoot rather than one single reason.

 

[Byron Carter]

Short of putting armed guards in every school, arming school officials, and installing metal detectors, how do you stop it?

Gun control doesn't even work when criminals are the main target, let alone the average disgruntled psycho high school student.

There's an army of armed guards at every prison.

We can't invest in one or two armed guards for every school?

We have a nurse at every school, why not an armed responder? Is it really that outrageous?

 

[cincymma79]

Ha... I believe it. But there seems to be some correlation, I.m.o

How do you explain crucified people, clad the impaler and so on

 

[Mark Cutting]

How do you explain crucified people, clad the impaler and so on

*Vlad

People are mean. I just thinks it's naive to dismiss wholly the implications of social media in some of these things. That's all

 

[jefferz]

My biggest take away when I was in Germany was how everyone seemed connected. I was in a smaller town so I'm sure the major cities arent like this but everyone I came across there would smile and greet you. People were actually talking to each other.

In America we are all on the go, all day. We could really care less what the guy over there is doing.

As someone who is often in my own world.. I was jealous. I want to live like that

You can find that in America, you just have to move to the rural areas.

 

[Leagon]

There's an army of armed guards at every prison.

We can't invest in one or two armed guards for every school?

We have a nurse at every school, why not an armed responder? Is it really that outrageous?

You don't think this is insane? I appreciate the practicality of it, but that doesn't provide a solution. It doesn't even really provide a deterrent. At best, you minimize the scope of the catastrophes (but not the prevalence), and at worst you simply add another step to the checklist of these kids.

The problem isn't that there's no one to stop mass shooters, the problem is that we currently have hundreds of young people around the country who want to murder their classmates.

 

[unimackpass]

So the official count is in. We had 14 school shootings this year so far. What the fuck is going on? Last year there was around 65 shootings on campuses. I remember when Columbine was a crazy incident, now it seems to be happening all the time. In January, there was better odds of a school shooting occurring than not somewhere in America each school day.

What do you think this we can do to change this? If gun bans are off the table, how can we change this horrifying trend?

Obviously the motives can be complex but sometimes there are common experiences for people that go over the edge.
I find this clip interesting. It's basically a parable obout how some people respond to suffering and not finding a place in life.

 

[IloveTHIS]

Nothing is going to stop a determined shooter other than another armed individual.

Nothing.

End the prohibition against the carrying of arms in as many places as possible.

this. I firmly believe that all teachers should have a firearm in the classroom. Obviously somewhere secure and out of sight, that only the teacher can get to.