SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 108: OldBoy

[europe1]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info.

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC.


Week 108! Is it spelled Old Boy or Oldboy? The internet apperently can no agree. Maybe this week's discussion will finally settle the matter. As a word-blind dysclexic... I leave that work to you guys.

Our Director

Chan-wook Park

​

Chan-wook Park was born on August 23, 1963 in Seoul, South Korea. He is a director and writer, known for The Handmaiden (2016), Thirst (2009) and Old Boy (2003).

Our Star

​

Choi Min-shik first made a name for himself in theater before breaking into the film world with a role in Park Chong-won's acclaimed film 'Our Twisted Hero' (1992). In the mid-nineties he continued to act in theater productions as well as in several TV dramas, including Moon Over Seoul with Han Seok-gyu. 1997 marked his return to motion pictures, with a role as a tough-talking police investigator in Song Neung-han's No. 3(1997). His biggest role came in 1999, when he was cast in Korea's most successful film ever, Shiri - Terrorns ansikte (1999). His portrayal of a North Korean agent garnered him much praise and a Best Actor Award from the 1999 domestic Grand Bell Awards.

After starring in a theater production of Hamlet in spring of 1999, Choi took on the role of a husband who discovers his wife's infidelity in Haepi-endeu (1999), and in early 2001 starred as a third-rate gangster opposite Hong Kong actress Cecilia Cheung in the acclaimed Failan (2001). In 2003 he starred in the now classic Old Boy (2003).



Film Overview

Premise: After being kidnapped and imprisoned for fifteen years, Oh Dae-Su is released, only to find that he must find his captor in five days.


Budget: $3 million
Box Office: $15 million

Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)
​

* Four live octopodes were eaten for the scene with Dae-su in the sushi bar, a scene which provoked some controversy abroad. Eating live octopus in Korea is commonplace although it is usually sliced first. When the film won the Grand Prix at Cannes, the director thanked the octopodes along with the cast and crew.
Min-sik Choi is a Buddhist and had to pray after eating the octopi.



* Min-sik Choi trained for six weeks and lost twenty pounds to get in shape for the role of Dae-su, and did most of his own stunt work.



* Scenes at the police station with drunken and disorderly Dae-su Oh were the very last scenes the director scheduled to film. Min-sik Choi (Dae-su Oh) ad-libbed most of these "drunken" scenes, including the scene of him playing with toy wings that he bought for his daughter. He also ad-libbed many of his lines during the penthouse scene, including the anthem of his school.



* The recurring painting on the wall of Oh Dae-Su's confinement complex is "The Man of Sorrow" by Belgian painter James Ensor.



* Based on Japanese Manga "Oldboy" by Nobuaki Minegishi and Garon Tsuchiya.




Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @chickenluver @FrontNakedChoke @AndersonsFoot @Tufts @Coolthulu

 

[loyalyolayal]

The movie's impact was somewhat diluted since I've read spoilers before watching it. Still a solid film. I would imagine it would've been 10x better if I saw it without having no idea what's going on.

 

[Scott Parker 27]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info.

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC.


Week 108! Is it spelled Old Boy or Oldboy? The internet apperently can no agree. Maybe this week's discussion will finally settle the matter. As a word-blind dysclexic... I leave that work to you guys.

Our Director

Chan-wook Park

​

Chan-wook Park was born on August 23, 1963 in Seoul, South Korea. He is a director and writer, known for The Handmaiden (2016), Thirst (2009) and Old Boy (2003).

Our Star

​

Choi Min-shik first made a name for himself in theater before breaking into the film world with a role in Park Chong-won's acclaimed film 'Our Twisted Hero' (1992). In the mid-nineties he continued to act in theater productions as well as in several TV dramas, including Moon Over Seoul with Han Seok-gyu. 1997 marked his return to motion pictures, with a role as a tough-talking police investigator in Song Neung-han's No. 3(1997). His biggest role came in 1999, when he was cast in Korea's most successful film ever, Shiri - Terrorns ansikte (1999). His portrayal of a North Korean agent garnered him much praise and a Best Actor Award from the 1999 domestic Grand Bell Awards.

After starring in a theater production of Hamlet in spring of 1999, Choi took on the role of a husband who discovers his wife's infidelity in Haepi-endeu (1999), and in early 2001 starred as a third-rate gangster opposite Hong Kong actress Cecilia Cheung in the acclaimed Failan (2001). In 2003 he starred in the now classic Old Boy (2003).



Film Overview

Premise: After being kidnapped and imprisoned for fifteen years, Oh Dae-Su is released, only to find that he must find his captor in five days.


Budget: $3 million
Box Office: $15 million

Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)
​

* Four live octopodes were eaten for the scene with Dae-su in the sushi bar, a scene which provoked some controversy abroad. Eating live octopus in Korea is commonplace although it is usually sliced first. When the film won the Grand Prix at Cannes, the director thanked the octopodes along with the cast and crew.
Min-sik Choi is a Buddhist and had to pray after eating the octopi.



* Min-sik Choi trained for six weeks and lost twenty pounds to get in shape for the role of Dae-su, and did most of his own stunt work.



* Scenes at the police station with drunken and disorderly Dae-su Oh were the very last scenes the director scheduled to film. Min-sik Choi (Dae-su Oh) ad-libbed most of these "drunken" scenes, including the scene of him playing with toy wings that he bought for his daughter. He also ad-libbed many of his lines during the penthouse scene, including the anthem of his school.



* The recurring painting on the wall of Oh Dae-Su's confinement complex is "The Man of Sorrow" by Belgian painter James Ensor.



* Based on Japanese Manga "Oldboy" by Nobuaki Minegishi and Garon Tsuchiya.




Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @chickenluver @FrontNakedChoke @AndersonsFoot @Tufts @Coolthulu

Awesome. Ill be watching this tonight after the stanley cup playoffs. I have a pain in the ass boss now who doesnt let me watch movies on company time anymore so Im a bit behind.

 

[europe1]

Awesome. Ill be watching this tonight after the stanley cup playoffs. I have a pain in the ass boss now who doesnt let me watch movies on company time anymore so Im a bit behind.

Such inhumane barbarity!

Glad to see you're jumping back into the Club, Scott Parker 27!

I commute for about 90 minutes every workday so I'm usually stuck watching movies on my phone during that timeperiod.

 

[the muntjac]

I haven't had time lately to be part of the club, and I haven't gotten a chance to rewatch Old Boy yet.

But for now, based on memory, I liked this one. It goes from being quirky and funny, and then all of a sudden horribly disturbing. I appreciate scenes that are shot as a long take, so I really liked the hammer fight in the hallway.

I’ve noticed that Korean films aren’t afraid of having a tragic conclusion (i.e. Mother, Train to Busan, A Werewolf Boy, and to a lesser degree The Host) and I find it to be refreshing because I don’t like every movie wrapping up in a neat little package of pleasantness.

If I get time to rewatch this, I’ll chime in with more.

 

[europe1]

I’ve noticed that Korean films aren’t afraid of having a tragic conclusion (i.e. Mother, Train to Busan, A Werewolf Boy, and to a lesser degree The Host)

70's Hollywood called and want their endings back<45>

 

[the muntjac]

70's Hollywood called and want their endings back<45>

I don't think they want this one back.

 

[Guestx]

Been relatively late chiming in on the last few discussions so I figured I'd get in early this week.

Oldboy is a damn good movie. I first watched it several years ago and I've been meaning to rewatch it for a while now, so I'm glad this opportunity arose.

I remember when I first saw the film there were two things that really stood out to me, and these same things stood out to me on this second go-around:

1. The originality of the plot. You know how 95% of movies feel like they're telling you a story you've already heard before, they're just telling it a little different. Well Oldboy did not feel like a story I had encountered before. It felt like something very new and original, a refreshing fresh of fresh air.

2. The way the film is shot. Park Chan-Wook has a way of composing shots and organizing what you see within the frame that stands out as being slightly unconventional and more visionary than what you get from, say, Brett Ratner. He seems like the kind of filmmaker that every film student should study because of his tendency to often do things just a little bit differently.

One concept that has always been interesting to me is that of a character going off to improve themselves in some way and then returning as the new and improved version of themselves. Not sure if anyone here has seen the anime Fatal Fury: The Motion Picture but there's a scene near the beginning where Andy and Terry Bogart, brothers in life and in the martial arts, decide to go their separate ways to improve their fighting skills. It's this big dramatic scene as they stand in front of the grave of their old master and they're like, "We will go into the world to perfect our skills and then meet back here in 10 years to demonstrate what we've learned." And then 10 years later they meet back up in the same spot and fight each other.

I was reminded of that scene while watching Oh-dae Su get locked away and start working on his fighting skills. I really wish that we got more of that, actually. More training. More self-improvement. He's called Monte Cristo in the movie, and I wish we got to see more Monte Cristo-esque self-improvement, or at the very least got to see a big montage of him preparing himself physically and learning to fight, but the concept is there at least.

Of course we eventually get to the big reveal that the bad guy is a sister smasher and this all happened because Oh-dae Su witnessed them doing their thing and couldn't keep his mouth shut. And then the sister smasher makes Oh-dae Su hook up with his daughter. Well . . . it's definitely an unconventional plot.

I have questions and criticisms though.

1. How did the villain come to be raising Oh-dae Su's daughter. He just says, "I've been raising her since she was three." Okay. How did that happen? Was there no family to take care of the daughter after Oh-dae Su's wife is killed? What she put up for adoption? This is never satisfactorily explained.

(Side Note: If he's been acting as her dad all this time, that just makes him a MEGA asshole for carrying out his plan. Like 10x the asshole that you originally thought.)

2. Speaking of Oh-dae Su's wife being killed, that whole plot element just evaporates with a single line about the case being dismissed. It ultimately has no real effect on the story and seems to be a questionable element of the writing.

3. The pacing seemed a bit slow at times this second time around. While I still enjoyed the movie, there were definitely times where I started to feel myself zoning out and thinking that they probably could've chopped about 20 minutes out of the film and been fine.

All in all, I think Oldboy is a very good though. It's interesting that we've done so many Korean movies. Looking over the list I see that in our travels to Asia the tally is:

China: 2
Japan: 2
Thailand: 1
Indonesia: 1
Korea: 4

It's interesting that Korea has become so much of a film powerhouse, but what's also interesting is that so few of their films seem to center around martial arts. Every single film from China, Japan, Thailand and Indonesia have heavily involved martial arts. But other than the fist fighting in Oldboy, none of the Korean movies have had anything to do with combat.

Weird.

 

[MusterX]

Oldboy is a movie that I originally saw with no idea what it was about or how it ended, went into it completely blind and the twist ending really hit me right in the face. I never saw it coming, not even a little bit so when it happened my jaw dropped on the floor. This entire time time I was pulling for Oldboy to win this thing and get his revenge after being imprisoned for 15 years and then at the end he barks like a dog and cuts his own tongue out with a pair of scissors.

I also didn't catch the first time around why its called Oldboy. I thought Oldboy was a reference to Oh-dae Su getting older because he was imprisoned for 15 years but that's not it. The film is called Oldboy because its a reference to the High School they attended.

@shadow_priest_x that high Asian tally on movies is partly my fault, I think 3 or 4 of those films were mine. And you are right, the Korean movies are not the same as the other places in Asia that make films. That partly may be because S. Korea has been to an extent Americanized after the Korean war. They make us Kia cars and make films and we station 20,000 Marines there and some Mcdonalds. Its such a strange dynamic with Korea. The north being Fucksville an the South being, well, South Korea.

 

[Guestx]

Oldboy is a movie that I originally saw with no idea what it was about or how it ended, went into it completely blind and the twist ending really hit me right in the face. I never saw it coming, not even a little bit so when it happened my jaw dropped on the floor. This entire time time I was pulling for Oldboy to win this thing and get his revenge after being imprisoned for 15 years and then at the end he barks like a dog and cuts his own tongue out with a pair of scissors.

I mean, how CAN you predict that ending?

It's like I said in my earlier post, Park doesn't just tell us a story we've been told before, putting his own spin on it. He tells us a whole new story. An unexpected story.

I also didn't catch the first time around why its called Oldboy. I thought Oldboy was a reference to Oh-dae Su getting older because he was imprisoned for 15 years but that's not it. The film is called Oldboy because its a reference to the High School they attended.

Shit, I didn't catch that either time I've watched it.

@shadow_priest_x that high Asian tally on movies is partly my fault, I think 3 or 4 of those films were mine. And you are right, the Korean movies are not the same as the other places in Asia that make films. That partly may be because S. Korea has been to an extent Americanized after the Korean war. They make us Kia cars and make films and we station 20,000 Marines there and some Mcdonalds. Its such a strange dynamic with Korea. The north being Fucksville an the South being, well, South Korea.

Yeah, it's interesting.

From China, we got an old school kung fu movie and Chow Yun-Fat shooting people and beating them up. From Japan, we got two samurai movies. From Thailand, a movie about a girl who goes around beating people up to get money for her sick mom. From Indonesia, a movie about a cop who infiltrates a criminal organization and then beats people up.

From Korea, we got:

Thirst
The Host
Mother
Oldboy

Just a different vibe there.

Since you bring up the Americanization of Korea, it's interesting to see how Korea has reacted to American involvement and compare that to Japan. Our involvement in each country is similar in a lot of ways. But Korea seems to have been Westernized in ways that the xenophobic Japan has not.

For instance, you'll notice all the Christian imagery in both Oldboy and Thirst. Apparently about 30% of South Korea is Christian. It's the country's dominant religion. On the other hand, only about 1-2% of Japanese identify as Christian.

 

[MusterX]

I mean, how CAN you predict that ending?

It's like I said in my earlier post, Park doesn't just tell us a story we've been told before, putting his own spin on it. He tells us a whole new story. An unexpected story.



Shit, I didn't catch that either time I've watched it.



Yeah, it's interesting.

From China, we got an old school kung fu movie and Chow Yun-Fat shooting people and beating them up. From Japan, we got two samurai movies. From Thailand, a movie about a girl who goes around beating people up to get money for her sick mom. From Indonesia, a movie about a cop who infiltrates a criminal organization and then beats people up.

From Korea, we got:

Thirst
The Host
Mother
Oldboy

Just a different vibe there.

Since you bring up the Americanization of Korea, it's interesting to see how Korea has reacted to American involvement and compare that to Japan. Our involvement in each country is similar in a lot of ways. But Korea seems to have been Westernized in ways that the xenophobic Japan has not.

For instance, you'll notice all the Christian imagery in both Oldboy and Thirst. Apparently about 30% of South Korea is Christian. It's the country's dominant religion. On the other hand, only about 1-2% of Japanese identify as Christian.

Overall, Korea probably makes a better movie than most other places in Asia, or at least more varied. I would definitely not mind visiting Seoul before I die. I bet you can get some good food from these street vendors.

I found this interesting take on why Korean movies have come up over the last couple decades.

South Korea's cinema boom continues to echo through Hollywood, with the country's acting talent heading Stateside and Korean stories regularly remade. Yet these Americanised versions often end up drained of the weirdness that made them so bracing. It's like trying to make coleslaw out of kimchi. Here are five things that Korean cinema does better.

1. Inventive Murder Weapons
2. Deranged Storylines
3. Gender-Bending
4. Varied Menues
5. Epic Ambitions
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/nov/29/old-boy-remake-south-korea-cinema

 

[Guestx]

South Korea's cinema boom continues to echo through Hollywood, with the country's acting talent heading Stateside and Korean stories regularly remade. Yet these Americanised versions often end up drained of the weirdness that made them so bracing. It's like trying to make coleslaw out of kimchi. Here are five things that Korean cinema does better.

1. Inventive Murder Weapons
2. Deranged Storylines
3. Gender-Bending
4. Varied Menues
5. Epic Ambitions
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/nov/29/old-boy-remake-south-korea-cinema

I like how "gender-bending" is cited here and lauded. . .

Anyway, I would like to see some Korean taekwondo movies. Surely they exist.

 

[MusterX]

I like how "gender-bending" is cited here and lauded. . .

Anyway, I would like to see some Korean taekwondo movies. Surely they exist.

Back to the film, one thing that bothered me about Oldboy is he is trying to dig out of his prison with an extra chopstick that was given to him but they have no camera's in the rooms so they never see him doing it. That seemed weird to me because they pump gas into the room to knock them out but have no video to see if he is knocked out before they enter the room. On a completely unrelated thought, it was quite the strangeness to see that opening scene at the hilarity of his buffoonery and then realize that is the guy who kicks everyone's ass with a claw hammer. The film opens with a comedic scene and then goes south like a MF'er.

The meaning of his name, "getting through one day at a time", really foreshadows the rest of his life.

 

[MusterX]

View attachment 386999



The movie's impact was somewhat diluted since I've read spoilers before watching it. Still a solid film. I would imagine it would've been 10x better if I saw it without having no idea what's going on.

I had no prior knowledge when I watched it and the twist ending horrified me because it was so unexpected. I'm thinking the film is going to end on a high note with Oh-dae Su getting his revenge and the next thing I know this is me.....

 

[loyalyolayal]

I like how "gender-bending" is cited here and lauded. . .

Anyway, I would like to see some Korean taekwondo movies. Surely they exist.

Not TKD but have you seen Fighter in the Wind? Korean movie about Kyokushin founder Mas Oyama?

 

[americanfootball]

I don’t watch foreign films ever, usually. Oldboy is the fuckin shit. Great movie. The long fight scene in the hallway is one of the best scenes ever.

 

[Guestx]

Back to the film, one thing that bothered me about Oldboy is he is trying to dig out of his prison with an extra chopstick that was given to him but they have no camera's in the rooms so they never see him doing it. That seemed weird to me because they pump gas into the room to knock them out but have no video to see if he is knocked out before they enter the room.

Yeah, I thought about that too actually. It makes no sense because we see the dude who gets his teeth pulled out sitting in front of all the video feeds from the rooms so clearly they DO have cameras in the rooms. Right? Are we to believe that somehow the camera didn't cover the whole room? Or for some reason his room didn't have a camera?

Like I said in my earlier post, there were a few things, writing-wise, that didn't quite add up for me.

The sub-plot about Oh-dae Su getting framed for his wife's murder goes nowhere. It's never clearly explained how Woo-Jin Lee came to be the guardian of Mi-do. And what was the deal about Oh-dae su's daughter being in Stockholm? That totally confused me.

On a completely unrelated thought, it was quite the strangeness to see that opening scene at the hilarity of his buffoonery and then realize that is the guy who kicks everyone's ass with a claw hammer. The film opens with a comedic scene and then goes south like a MF'er.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. The dude is a good actor. It's also interesting how just giving the dude a haircut changed his appearance so much.

Not sure if you caught this from the trivia:

Scenes at the police station with drunken and disorderly Dae-su Oh were the very last scenes the director scheduled to film. Min-sik Choi (Dae-su Oh) ad-libbed most of these "drunken" scenes, including the scene of him playing with toy wings that he bought for his daughter. He also ad-libbed many of his lines during the penthouse scene, including the anthem of his school.

I also read that to make his transformation he trained for six weeks and lost about 20 lbs.

 

[Guestx]

Not TKD but have you seen Fighter in the Wind? Korean movie about Kyokushin founder Mas Oyama?

No, I can't say I've even heard of it.

Seems strange to me that the Koreans would make a movie about Mas Oyama.

 

[loyalyolayal]

No, I can't say I've even heard of it.

Seems strange to me that the Koreans would make a movie about Mas Oyama.

Because he is/was Korean.

 

[Guestx]

Because he is/was Korean.

Interesting. I've always assumed he was Japanese.