SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 114: Coherence

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by europe1, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Coolthulu

    Coolthulu Green Belt

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    Really appreciate the originality here. There are some genuinely thrilling moments to be found, and considering this is a directorial debut, there is potential here. Unfortunately, other than some occasionally great film making (appreciate the camerawork in particular, as the film is really well shot & well lit at times) and a fairly memorable third act, nothing about Coherence was exceptional or really stood out to me (whether it be the acting, writing or film making). Not only that, but all of the characters were some extremely forgettable donks. Not saying that I always expect well defined, three-dimensional characters in these kinds of films, but these characters in particular were not only extremely dull, but all were written like they were in a Blumhouse horror film. Because of this, the film was pretty unspectacular at times.

    That said, for a directorial debut, it’s pretty solid. As mentioned above, I appreciate the originality here and there are moments with pretty great film making. The performances are solid enough albeit not great. The dialogue is serviceable enough for this kind of a film. Narrative-wise, it manages to be fairly engaging for the most part, even if I only found the third act to be remotely memorable. James Ward Byrkit clearly had a vision and shows a ton of potential here, and I am mildly curious where he will go in his career.

    Overall, nothing great, but worthwhile.

    <Fedor23>
     
  2. the muntjac

    the muntjac Black Belt

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    Ah, I see you guys have already brought up Everett's Many-Worlds Interpretation. Well, I guess my reality is now catching up to yours.
     
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  3. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    I disagree with you and @europe1 on this film pretty much by 100%. I honestly feel like its borderline genius. You complain about the character building but its not really that type of film. I prefer to look at it as a study in quantum mechanics. Would it change your view at all to know that the majority of what the characters said was improvised. There was no script. They made it up as they went. They were given plot points on each day and then they improvised a script as they went. There was almost no crew and the film was made for less than 50,000 dollars.

    Considering how heavy the material is, how low the budget was, and how there wasn't even a script, I find it to be a special film and even after multiple viewings I'm still picking up new stuff about it I didn't notice before.
     
  4. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    [​IMG]


    Now I'm thinking low budget movies will be my next theme.

    I never watched PI either, I will check it out.

    Hmm, interesting. I assumed the story meant she killed a copy of her husband, but it could have been meant to foreshadow the ending.

    I took this one to mean it was a Mike copy who'd set out to do the same thing, and he really was gone for 45 minutes. But I did wonder throughout the movie if there was some time warping going on, considering the anomaly was based on gravity.
     
  5. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    I still hold that the possibilities began emerging from the current reality, so copies would not stray too far from the originals in the span of a few hours. Some minor details of their lives, like Mike deciding to take a role in a different tv show for example, would seem still very much in character. But becoming a priest or something wouldn't.

    However, entertaining your hypothesis, my guess is they would never run into those extremely divergent possibilities. Only the similar versions would be performing similar actions, running in and out of the same house trying to figure out what's going on in the other house. So maybe it's a moot point.
     
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  6. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    The smart people have made a mistake? :D


    At first I thought it was one of the weird memory things that was mentioned. Then I figured she did kill him and went to a new reality where he was alive or a new husband from a different reality showed up in hers after she'd done the deed.
     
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  7. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    I was thinking more as in the term of the Limit has to exist between the spaces 0 and 1. So it cannot be 2. However, there is an infinite amount of space between 0 and 1, so even though the Limit is delimited to that area, it still contains infinite possibilities.

    Likewise, the sea of possibilities in the film contains infinite possibilities, but is still delimited to the lives of the characters who were at the dinner party. So the possibility of events is at once infinite in their possibilities -- but also delimited to the characters.

    This of course births the fallacy that the limit between 0 and 1 is infinite. However, the limit between 0 and 2 is infinite yet still greater than that of 0 and 1, since the area between 0 and 2 contain more possibilities than 0 and 1. So we have a situation where something is infinite, yet still smaller than something else that is infinite. So a Sea of Possibilities that would have ranged outside the main characters lives, would likewise have been infinite, but still somehow greater than what we see on the film. How the hell that works is something for the mathematicians have migraines about.

    Usually, we keep some distance between the dot and the A...

    Yeah, that was what I was asking. We see a physical effect on Emy with her lethargicness when she becomes Entangled (if that is indeed what happens). While in the end scene, she just looks forlorn that her scheme didn't work out.

    But as you mentioned -- the movie is probably playing fast-and-loose with the rules of Entanglement. Is not about observability (as it would be with "hard" science), more a symbolic play, using the rings to communicate this. So even though Emy "should" have become Entangled with Phone Emy when they both become observable, she didn't becuase the directed was ignoring that anyways.

    I think this claim is hard to quantify. How do we *know* that when we're talking about possibilities? Every possibility has to be accounted for, has it not? There is 0.0000000001 chance that I start killing people randomly tomorrow. But it's still a possibility. Or get involved in politics. To win the lottery. Or start liking Transformers movies. And so on, literally billions of outrageous possibilities.

    To quantify such a claim, we would have to "prove" what the possibility is of you doing something -- or even if you doing something is possible to being with (needless to say, an impossible task). How can we even expect a thing as fleeting as personality to remain solid when we're exposed to the sea of possibilities that you've gone through? I mean, that's billions upon billions of possibilities that you've gone through in your life. If a billions upon billions of variables about you were randomized, what comes out on the other end would be a completely diffrent person, with a new life/personality/and all. On a pure mathematical scale, it seems very unlikely to me that we see such consistency.

    I guess that what happens when you get a guy who used to draw storyboards for Disney movies to direct a feuture.:D
     
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  8. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    My interpretation of the event was that the characters' decisions attracted related possibilities. And so did their indecision. For example, Em not making up her mind about going with Kevin attracted two alternate realities, one in which she chose not to go, and one in which she chose to go. Notice that in the end she found both examples, one where Kevin and Laurie were a couple, and one where she and Kevin were happy together.

    So, within the system that the comet created, the characters did not have access to infinite possible outcomes, it was only the outcomes that fit their choices that were attracted from the infinite pool.

    This is the important part, now... those outcomes might have included past differences, but they would have had to have included that choice. Meaning the characters had to have more or less followed similar paths to get there. Can you dig it?
     
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  9. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    Let me know if you watch it. Like I said, the SMC discussion for that film went pretty deep.

    Yea it never occurred to me until now that the dinner party discussion about the woman who killed her husband might foreshadow the end of the film.

    The book they found was a study on gravity. Now look at the highlighted red below concerning time dilation.

    According to the theory of relativity, time dilation is a difference in the elapsed time measured by two observers, either due to a velocity difference relative to each other, or by being differently situated relative to a gravitational field. As a result of the nature of spacetime,[2] a clock that is moving relative to an observer will be measured to tick slower than a clock that is at rest in the observer's own frame of reference. A clock that is under the influence of a stronger gravitational field than an observer's will also be measured to tick slower than the observer's own clock.

    That idea of gravity keeps popping up. I don't know if it was a separate Mike or if there was time dilation while the comet was passing over. Either works for me.
     
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  10. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    [​IMG]

    I didn't even consider that she switched into a new reality where her husband was alive, but how would that happen? When Emily switched realities she was trapped with a 2nd Emily. It seems for the sake of continuity she killed him and then he woke up the next day. The film has enough ambiguity to keep us guessing though and its not clear exactly what happened.
     
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  11. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    <mma4>

    Illuminating thought. Only the possibilities that made them attend that dinner being accounted for. Using in-movie logic, that obviously has to be the case (seeing as they are always present). I wonder how this jives with actual Decoherence theory though. Is it just an instance of storytelling trumping the science behind it (though I suppose applying quantum physics stuff like Schölinger's Cat and Decoherence theory -- stuff made for particles -- to human individuals is a wonky enterprise to being with).
     
  12. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    It's reality roulette. Endless possibilities. :cool:

    Yeah, I don't know. But somebody in the house didn't stay home like they should have or there wouldn't be two husbands and the murderous wife's confusion.
     
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  13. LHWBelt

    LHWBelt Silver Belt

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    This was my second time watching the movie so it obviously didn't have the same effect as the first. Still it was pretty decent and thought provoking. The dialogue was mainly solid and seemed real although a few times I didn't think the characters were acting like what was happening was a big deal which it clearly was a big deal lol. Anyways I didn't fully remember the movie so it was fun to try to see the things happen before they did because I at least knew about the alternate reality. I forgot it was infinite realities which is a pretty big deal lol. Still all those positives said I still don't think it's the most entertaining movie in the world. If I was rating it I'd go 6/10. Not bad and pretty damn good for a 50,000 dollar budget but it wasn't something I ever would have re-watched before joining this club.
     
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  14. LHWBelt

    LHWBelt Silver Belt

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    This is the conclusion I came to as well but way less smart sounding.
     
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  15. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    Yes, I get it. You can approach zero to infinity but never get there. Not only that, some infinities are larger than other infinities. Georg Cantor created set theory and devoted his life to the understanding of infinity.

    [​IMG]

    Cantor is one of the most famous mathematicians of all time but he was eventually driven insane. He thought only his wife could feed him because he was paranoid about being poisioned or something so he ended up like a skeleton in a sanatorium and eventually died of a heart attack.

    I would characterize that as accurate. My only argument is the delimited area of effect, is it all of Earth, or is there multiple sets, meaning there were millions of these little bubbles of effect but they were all unaware of the others and what we viewed was just one such bubble. Otherwise I agree with you. They were in an infinite set of possibilities and although the set was infinite, the players were limited, at least in our scope of viewing.

    [​IMG]

    I broke out the Swedish angstrom and that is what you say? Its one ten-billionth of a meter! oh sorry, metre!

    Entanglement is so complicated even people that understand it don't really want to explain it. Check out this example. Its short and really illustrates what I'm talking about. Its from....

    [​IMG]
    Allan Steinhardt
    , PhD, Author "Radar in the Quantum Limit",Formerly DARPA's Chief Scientist,Fellow

    I am a Quantum Engineer not a Physicist so I will discuss "become" as it pertains to engineering design. At present we can entangle only photons and electrons in practical Quantum Systems. Photons are "born" that way. They can't earn the entanglement moniker after birth. We can however "train" Electrons to entangle. So how do we birth photons with a silver spoon in their mouth so to speak? How do we "educate" electrons to display entanglement? It all comes down to Schrodinger's equation:

    id&#x2202;&#x03C8;(r&#x2192;,t)&#x2202;t=&#x2212;d2&#x25BD;2&#x03C8;(r&#x2192;,t)/(2&#x03BC;)+V(r&#x2192;,t)&#x03C8;(r&#x2192;,t)" role="presentation">id∂ψ(r⃗ ,t)∂t=−d2▽2ψ(r⃗ ,t)/(2μ)+V(r⃗ ,t)ψ(r⃗ ,t)
    You would have to click the link to see the equation, it doesn't translate so well here.

    The equations will give different answers for different input materials and different environmental conditions. So you combine math and engineering to get the right conditions to grow (photon) or train (electron) entanglement.


    I can't explain any more than that. As Feynman, the greatest homegrown American Physicist ever, said:

    "Where did we get that (equation) from? Nowhere. It is not possible to derive it from anything you know. It came out of the mind of Schrodinger."
    https://www.quora.com/How-do-particles-become-entangled
     
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  16. LHWBelt

    LHWBelt Silver Belt

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    Absolutely right. His face was perfect there.
     
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  17. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    Yeah, that's almost like a cliche within the genre. World-shattering stuff is going on? This is a perfect time to discuss out relationship issues!:D

    Yup, real spooky. The movie needed more evocative moments like that. Moments that really capture the unreality of what they're going through.

    Yeah, as I mentioned, the number of infinities between 0 and 1 are greater than the number of infinities between 0 and 2.

    Now I'm mostly just angry that on a Å the dot and the A is connected but on an Ä you can scarcely see a distance between dots and the A, as it is supposed to be!!! Why the disrespect, bro? Why the favoritism of Ä's over Å'ns on internet letterings!? One gets it correctly and one doesn't? My own family-name starts with a Å! This is an direct attack on the honor of my---oh shit right, sweet swede-reference, bro! Us Swedes value Ångstrom (Ångström?) references just bellow ABBA and Meatball ones.;)

    [​IMG]

    Frankly, the theory of Entanglement seems so complex and perpendicular to the nature of electrons and protons that trying to discuss how they would relate to an individual seems... well... you know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  18. Coolthulu

    Coolthulu Green Belt

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    Interesting........
     
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  19. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    In my simple mind, sure, why not? Superposition means the particle is in every possible state at once. In this closed system the only possible results include the choices made by the participants at the party, which I guess include being at the party.

    Or, in terms of the double slit experiment, the light particles pass through both slits at the same time, thus both results exist at once. In the movie the slits are the character's choices.
     
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  20. LHWBelt

    LHWBelt Silver Belt

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    So this was my first week with yall and it was dope but i hope there's like way less science next week lol
     
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