PC Sherdog PC Build/Buy Thread, v6: My Power Supply Burned Down My House

[Madmick]

While it might not be “slow” it definitely depends what you compare it to.
Seems silly to have an 8th gen i7 in my laptop and a 3 in a build.

But laptop processors don’t line up exactly with their desktop counter parts so.

I’m really struggling on building the cheapest thing possible to get something going, or buying the processor I’ll end up with right out of the gate.

What I should do is run cpu benchmark on my laptop then compare to the benchmarks on the processors etc I’m looking At

I think what you should do is listen to the people in here who know what they're talking about who are trying to help you.

You are trying to assess the best per-dollar value for processing power. UserBenchmark, the god reference, isn't at useful here because it's "Value" metric has never been great, but more saliently because it's much more complicated, and designed to rank value based on the perspective of a gaming demand for processing power, not overall power. You want overall power.

Passmark is one of the pillars of UserBenchmark (a meta-benchmark). It's the best for straightforward, raw computational assessment. It's not like UserBenchmark or 3DMark that are geared towards certain crowds:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html

As you can see, right now, out-of-the-box, in terms of pure value, the FX-9590 (OEM/Tray) is the best value. Of course, that is misleading, because it doesn't factor in the CPU Cooler cost. It's also an older architecture. Across the top of the chart you can see Ryzen is the champ. The R5-1600 for $170 or the R5-2600 for $190 are the leaders. Since Ryzen overclocks more cheaply, this value win will hold true even if you choose to do that. The Ryzen 1st gen run ~4.0GHz wall, and the 2nd gen runs ~4.3GHz wall.

You were doing quite well when you had come to this conclusion. The reason I suggested the R7-1700 is because the value isn't significantly different for the R7-1700 (or R7-1800X right now), and so why not spring for the R7 since it is the best CPU you can put in that motherboard socket? It's not like you can "add" more to the CPU later the way you can with RAM. It requires a wholesale upgrade. Furthermore, if you do overclock, the overall improvement will favor the value of the 8-core processor. Why? Because a 10% improvement to the 8-core will yield more overall performance gained than a 10% improvement to a 6-core.

If the above chart doesn't satisfy you, then you can create your own spreadsheet which plugs in Passmark's Overclocked scores, or the UserBenchmark Overclocked Multicore scores, and divide by your dollar value.

People have explained to you why the R7-1700 is a better value than the R7-1800X pertaining to that 4GHz wall (the entry processor in any AMD class is almost always the best value for this reason, and was with the previous FX chips, too). However, at only a $20 premium right now, I would personally take the 1800X for its superior stock CPU Cooler (the Wraith Max).

 

[jefferz]

It's not slow lol

He’s building a video editing machine. It would be slow.
@Madmick 1800x doesn’t come with a cooler Amazon Newegg. When you factor the price of a cooler, the 1700 becomes the obvious choice.

 

[90 50]

He’s building a video editing machine. It would be slow.
@Madmick 1800x doesn’t come with a cooler Amazon Newegg. When you factor the price of a cooler, the 1700 becomes the obvious choice.

And at this point I’m not even sure if a 17 or 1800x would be fast enough. I’ve read so many benchmarks on cpus they are starting to run together.

I need to start spreadsheeting them all, and it doesn’t help that I’m looking at the low, mid and high end all at the same time.

Struggling with the fact of do I do something as cheap as possible to get something together quick and update as I go, or just bust the wallet out right out the gate and order all the best crap now and end up with more than I need.

I’ll be finished remodeling my office this weekend hopefully so I’ll need to have something running fairly quickly now

 

[Madmick]

And at this point I’m not even sure if a 17 or 1800x would be fast enough. I’ve read so many benchmarks on cpus they are starting to run together.

I need to start spreadsheeting them all, and it doesn’t help that I’m looking at the low, mid and high end all at the same time.

Struggling with the fact of do I do something as cheap as possible to get something together quick and update as I go, or just bust the wallet out right out the gate and order all the best crap now and end up with more than I need.

I’ll be finished remodeling my office this weekend hopefully so I’ll need to have something running fairly quickly now

You've said you're on a budget. If those CPUs aren't fast enough you're screwed.

For you to be more confused at this point reflects a failure to comprehend what we've told you. It's been made eminently clear.

 

[My Spot]

@90 50

https://www.reddit.com/r/PCMasterRace/wiki/builds#wiki_the_media_elite

 

[Quipling]

And at this point I’m not even sure if a 17 or 1800x would be fast enough. I’ve read so many benchmarks on cpus they are starting to run together.

I need to start spreadsheeting them all, and it doesn’t help that I’m looking at the low, mid and high end all at the same time.

Struggling with the fact of do I do something as cheap as possible to get something together quick and update as I go, or just bust the wallet out right out the gate and order all the best crap now and end up with more than I need.

I’ll be finished remodeling my office this weekend hopefully so I’ll need to have something running fairly quickly now

You never said:

What is your budget?

What are the specific criteria that you need to hit in terms of performance?

 

[90 50]

You've said you're on a budget. If those CPUs aren't fast enough you're screwed.

For you to be more confused at this point reflects a failure to comprehend what we've told you. It's been made eminently clear.

Unfortunately you’ve misunderstood me, me being confused on what my actual real world needs are has little to do with any recommendations on chip sets here.

My budget is my actual needs, as cheaply as possible, but figuring out exactly what my cpu and gpu demands are arnt as straight forward as I had hoped.

I might be making this more difficult than it needs to be, but I don’t like throwing away money at the same time.

I have a new laptop that won’t do or struggles to do some of the new tasks I’m doing, so in a sense I threw money away there.

If I had known previously it wouldn’t handle certain tasks i might have gotten one a little less specked out and saved some money and put it toward my pc build, it at the same time i got a really good deal on it so it’s not a total waste.

I’m still leaning possibly towards putting together an Uber cheap craigslist rig, and putting loads on it and seeing where the problems are and upgrading the parts that are problematic, or a cheap chipset like the 3 and doing the same thing, depending on what I find locally cpu and mobo wise.

I’m not being straight forward and that’s the issue, it I’m trying to save money with out an exact known benchmark I need to hit.

 

[Madmick]

He’s building a video editing machine. It would be slow.
@Madmick 1800x doesn’t come with a cooler Amazon Newegg. When you factor the price of a cooler, the 1700 becomes the obvious choice.

Wait, still? I knew they started bundling them last summer. I recalled a headline indicating they had shifted to that as the norm prior to the launch of the Ryzen 2xxx series, and all the older OEM/Trays would have been sold out. Yeah...here:
AMD Readies Ryzen 7 1800X and 1700X Packages with Wraith Max Coolers

AMD launched the retail versions of its flagship Ryzen 7 1800X and second-best Ryzen 7 1700X processors in WOF (without fan-heatsink) boxed packages, similar to how Intel sells unlocked "K" and "X" series processors, such as the Core i5-7600K and Core i7-7700K. The company is giving final touches to newer packages of the two chips that include a stock cooling solution, probably addressing markets in which socket AM4-compatible aftermarket cooling solutions aren't easily available. These packages will include AMD's largest Wraith-series cooler, the Wraith Max.

Wraith Max is the company's largest stock cooling solution, and is a slight upscale of the original Wraith cooler AMD introduced with the FX-8370. It is rated for CPUs with TDP of up to 140W, and so it could make short work of the 95W Ryzen 7 1800X and 1700X chips. It consists of a dense aluminium fin-stack heatsink to which heat drawn from a copper base is conveyed by heat pipes, and ventilated by a large fan. PIB (processor in a box) retail packages of the two chips with Wraith Max will have clear markings on the box, including stylized artwork of the cooler, besides being noticeably heavier. According to ComputerBase.de, the Ryzen 7 1800X Wraith Max is priced at 579€, compared to the WOF (without fan-heatsink) package's 537€ price; while the Ryzen 7 1700X Wraith Max is priced at 460€, compared to the WOF package's 396€ price (all prices include taxes).

After all, the Wraith Max was originally intended as OEM only, not for retail, but it didn't ship with any other processor, so I figured this was the plan. I guess it was really only ever intended for an incredibly limited release.

My bad. Thanks for the correction.

 

[90 50]

You never said:

What is your budget?

What are the specific criteria that you need to hit in terms of performance?

There lies the problem, budget is as cheap as possible and still perform the way I need it too, without knowing what my exact benchmark criteria are.

It would be easier if i was playing a specific couple games and could just look at how they load gpu and cpu. It that’s not exactly what my main criteria are.

Heavy demand video editing, video capture and streaming are going to be my biggest demands Im just not sure on what I have to have yet.

Like mentioned my 8th gen i7 laptop can’t do it, but I’m learning my problems are gpu demand related.

So with the right gpu, a i5 or a r5 might be enough, or it might not

 

[Madmick]

Unfortunately you’ve misunderstood me, me being confused on what my actual real world needs are has little to do with any recommendations on chip sets here.

My budget is my actual needs, as cheaply as possible, but figuring out exactly what my cpu and gpu demands are arnt as straight forward as I had hoped.

I might be making this more difficult than it needs to be, but I don’t like throwing away money at the same time.

I have a new laptop that won’t do or struggles to do some of the new tasks I’m doing, so in a sense I threw money away there.

If I had known previously it wouldn’t handle certain tasks i might have gotten one a little less specked out and saved some money and put it toward my pc build, it at the same time i got a really good deal on it so it’s not a total waste.

I’m still leaning possibly towards putting together an Uber cheap craigslist rig, and putting loads on it and seeing where the problems are and upgrading the parts that are problematic, or a cheap chipset like the 3 and doing the same thing, depending on what I find locally cpu and mobo wise.

I’m not being straight forward and that’s the issue, it I’m trying to save money with out an exact known benchmark I need to hit.

Simplified:

• R7-1700 + GTX 1050 + B350 Motherboard + DDR4-3000 (or faster) RAM

Unless you are doing hardcore 3D modeling/rendering with post-production effects programs you don't need more GPU than that. Even then it doesn't make sense to invest more in the GPU until you're at least into the i7/R7 range of CPUs. INVEST in your CPU.

The boost to supported memory bandwidth of the X470 boards isn't worth the premium. You just want overclocking potential, so A320 is out.

There lies the problem, budget is as cheap as possible and still perform the way I need it too, without knowing what my exact benchmark criteria are.

It would be easier if i was playing a specific couple games and could just look at how they load gpu and cpu. It that’s not exactly what my main criteria are.

Heavy demand video editing, video capture and streaming are going to be my biggest demands Im just not sure on what I have to have yet.

Like mentioned my 8th gen i7 laptop can’t do it, but I’m learning my problems are gpu demand related.

So with the right gpu, a i5 or a r5 might be enough, or it might not

What are the most graphically demanding games you play? THIS-- not 2D video editing-- is what could increase your demand, meaningfully, for more GPU power.

Use Game Debate to get an idea:
http://www.game-debate.com/search/games?sort-by=required-performance

 

[90 50]

Simplified:

• R7-1700 + GTX 1050 + B350 Motherboard + DDR4-3000 (or faster) RAM

Unless you are doing hardcore 3D modeling/rendering with post-production effects programs you don't need more GPU than that. Even then it doesn't make sense to invest more in the GPU until you're at least into the i7/R7 range of CPUs. INVEST in your CPU.

The boost to supported memory bandwidth of the X470 boards isn't worth the premium. You just want overclocking potential, so A320 is out.

What are the most graphically demanding games you play? THIS-- not 2D video editing-- is what could increase your demand, meaningfully, for more GPU power.

Use Game Debate to get an idea:
http://www.game-debate.com/search/games?sort-by=required-performance

I’ve been a console game player for a long time, I don’t currently play any games on pc. I used to play quake a lot on pc back in the day, it that’s how long I’ve been out of pc gaming, so the answer to that question immediately would be none.

When the new doom releases i probably will get it for pc , if not I’ll get it for Xbox.

Where I’ve found video editing is starting to take its toll is on editing 4K and large scale color correction in 4K etc.

I’ll habe to search again for the video but Linus did one where he talked about building new editing machines, and how they went about building their earlier ones incorrectly, not understanding the load demands that 4K editing brings to the table.

Video editing is becoming much more gpu intensive than it ever previously has been.

My monitor I would game on for pc I ha e currently is a 27” 1080p, so I don’t need to play at 4K, and don’t really think that’s necessary

I’m thinking a 1050ti will be as much gpu as I need, but maybe not.

 

[90 50]

https://www.adorama.com/rd7750007.h...P6Kwy2Ha4SKJjYRXNiZG1PrjA7mcjnBkaAgcUEALw_wcB

That should do it lol.

 

[90 50]

So I just ran the full performance test run from cpu benchmark on my laptop.

Son am I disappoint...

I just ordered the fractile case and I’ll throw together a 200.00 craglist rig faster than my laptop and go from there.

I can’t beleive how bad my laptop did in the cpu score, I expected low 3D score but damn.

Also when getting a “great deal” on open box items at major stores, start the pc and make sure it actually is what they say it is. All I’m gonna say on that :/

 

[Madmick]

I’ve been a console game player for a long time, I don’t currently play any games on pc. I used to play quake a lot on pc back in the day, it that’s how long I’ve been out of pc gaming, so the answer to that question immediately would be none.

When the new doom releases i probably will get it for pc , if not I’ll get it for Xbox.

Where I’ve found video editing is starting to take its toll is on editing 4K and large scale color correction in 4K etc.

I’ll habe to search again for the video but Linus did one where he talked about building new editing machines, and how they went about building their earlier ones incorrectly, not understanding the load demands that 4K editing brings to the table.

Video editing is becoming much more gpu intensive than it ever previously has been.

My monitor I would game on for pc I ha e currently is a 27” 1080p, so I don’t need to play at 4K, and don’t really think that’s necessary

I’m thinking a 1050ti will be as much gpu as I need, but maybe not.

I don't even have to watch this video to know that the context for the "underestimated" demands is that they didn't realize how much more they could get out of a more powerful GPU under the conditions of already running an R7, i7, or better (i.e. Threadripper or i9).
https://www.videomaker.com/article/f6/17135-editing-in-4k-minimum-system-requirements
Two years old. The GTX 750 corresponds to the GTX 1050.

Xeon's are not ideal for editing builds. Those are server processors.

 

[90 50]

I don't even have to watch this video to know that the context for the "underestimated" demands is that they didn't realize how much more they could get out of a more powerful GPU under the conditions of already running an R7, i7, or better (i.e. Threadripper or i9).
https://www.videomaker.com/article/f6/17135-editing-in-4k-minimum-system-requirements
Two years old. The GTX 750 corresponds to the GTX 1050.

Xeon's are not ideal for editing builds. Those are server processors.

Gotta love internet comment boxes, everyone calls the author of that article an idiot.

I dont know enough to say either way but that you can always rely on reading funny comments.

there was some good stuff in it though.

as cheap as the old stuff is i might play with 980's or 1030's in sli, as ive seen in more than one place talks of dual gpu's for editing tasks.

 

[jefferz]

Gotta love internet comment boxes, everyone calls the author of that article an idiot.

I dont know enough to say either way but that you can always rely on reading funny comments.

there was some good stuff in it though.

as cheap as the old stuff is i might play with 980's or 1030's in sli, as ive seen in more than one place talks of dual gpu's for editing tasks.

1030's can't do SLI. Lowest 10 series sli capable card is the 1070.

 

[Madmick]

Gotta love internet comment boxes, everyone calls the author of that article an idiot.

I dont know enough to say either way but that you can always rely on reading funny comments.

there was some good stuff in it though.

as cheap as the old stuff is i might play with 980's or 1030's in sli, as ive seen in more than one place talks of dual gpu's for editing tasks.

What is the nature of the naysaying? The top comment is an AMD owner who objects on the ground that his FX processor isn't underpowered, and oh, why? Because he can get better results with a lesser CPU if he's running PCIe-based SSDs instead of SATA SSDs. Sure, that's because drive speed is highly important in an editing build, but they're also incredibly expensive. In a budget build (such as one utilizing an FX processor even at the point that article was written) this doesn't make any sense. You're way better off spending an extra $150 towards a better CPU than towards a 1TB+ PCIe SSD over a SATA SSD.

Alright, spent enough time on you. You don't seem to understand how basic your question is to us, how little you understand yourself in trying to figure out if we're wrong, and how comically unequipped you would be able to discern this (even if we were) based a few hours of Googling. You are causing your own problems with the fingers in your ears.

 

[90 50]

What is the nature of the naysaying? The top comment is an AMD owner who objects on the ground that his FX processor isn't underpowered, and oh, why? Because he can get better results with a lesser CPU if he's running PCIe-based SSDs instead of SATA SSDs. Sure, that's because drive speed is highly important in an editing build, but they're also incredibly expensive. In a budget build (such as one utilizing an FX processor even at the point that article was written) this doesn't make any sense. You're way better off spending an extra $150 towards a better CPU than towards a 1TB+ PCIe SSD over a SATA SSD.

Alright, spent enough time on you. You don't seem to understand how basic your question is to us, how little you understand yourself in trying to figure out if we're wrong, and how comically unequipped you would be able to discern this (even if we were) based a few hours of Googling. You are causing your own problems with the fingers in your ears.

There aren’t any fingers in my ears, you seem to take the direction of my comments the wrong way.

I thanked you for the article link , and made a joke about how you can always rely on crazy internet comment sections for a laugh.

I also noted there was some good information in the article for my learning curve.

Perhaps the way I wrote it is what’s confusing you, it was late and I was in and out of consciousness having taken a ton of meletonin trying to fall asleep previously, so I do apologize if it did not come out the way I had intended.

I’ve said from the beginnng in some of these pc threads, my learning curve is way off, as I haven’t built a pc since there were still dinosaurs roaming the land.

So I’m trying to learn everything I’ve either forgotten, or missed out on in decades of advancements all at the same time.

But I’ve also learned two new things, judging performance on a desktop build to my current laptop was a comedy of errors in a way.

Looking at benchmarks and assuming based on processor type and age they would be slower than what I currently have was way off after running full benchmarks on my own shit.

And secondly my laptop isn’t what it was supposed to be either, which threw a curveball in my assumptions as well.

Then trying to figure out exactly why what parts of what I do, are the crippling processesing functions and trying to build past that.

While at the same time not spending money I would not need too, then there is the confusion as it seems across the board for internet reciews on the same issues.

 

[90 50]

1030's can't do SLI. Lowest 10 series sli capable card is the 1070.

Interesting, during my research it seemed more older cards were sli capable and some newer were not.

I swear I found 1030’s running sli I read benchmarks on,ill look into it some more.

It does seem though that some functions would perform better with one 1050, and some with dual cards as it’s nkt straight forward there either.

 

[Quipling]

Interesting, during my research it seemed more older cards were sli capable and some newer were not.

I swear I found 1030’s running sli I read benchmarks on,ill look into it some more.

It does seem though that some functions would perform better with one 1050, and some with dual cards as it’s nkt straight forward there either.

Is there a microcenter near you?