Television Shogun

Wouldn't want to eat something flies swarmed and possibly put maggots into.
 
MidgardSerpent said:
It's pretty cool to see people in the west (assuming you are) adopting all these kinds of food. We've been selling kimchi for years, but it's really been hitting the mainstream. Same goes for regular and frozen mochi. I remember stocking up on one unit of frozen mochi, barely selling anything, and had to throw away the expired ones. But now it's a very solid seller, have around 10 flavors in our freezer alone.
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I lived in Hawaii for 10years when turned 18, I fell in love with Korean & Japanese cuisine. My father ended up with Japanese woman at a point and my youngest brother is half Japanese. So it was kinda diffierent going from Spanish, Mexican and South American food to Asian food. I use to like Mochi Green Tea Ice Cream. That was oddly great.
 
So how much of Toranaga's army got wiped out by the earthquake? Did he bring everyone from Edo?
 
A defining detail in the previous series was that Blackthorne and Mariko sparked from the first time they met. Their subtle love was important to the story.

As I mentioned before, I think the casting of this series' Mariko is a big mistake. After episode 6, no rational person can think that the Mariko of this series is nothing more than an arrogant contemporary strong western feminist. This Mariko lacks everything that comes from a Japanese woman from the time that lived under a highly patriarchal society. She's arrogant and the fact that she looks like a bar girl from Soi Cowboy and not a Japanese one puts my conservative thinking in a bad mood.

I'm sorry for being so petty.
 
If anything Ochiba no Kata is a more strong western feminist type, she came in a started ordering a lord around.

This was a fantastic episode and it was great to see the politics and plotting happening.
 
So after all the anticipation of Toranaga's ordering barbarian to have sexy time with the town's finest ho Kiku, and Kiku talking about enjoying her unclothed body, they don't show any nudity and transition from night time to daytime the next day. WTF? Her face is very attractive though.

What's also dirty is Toranaga orders Mariko to join them in case they need translation during sexual relations and they don't have her get nekkid either.
 
Kimchii said:
A defining detail in the previous series was that Blackthorne and Mariko sparked from the first time they met. Their subtle love was important to the story.

As I mentioned before, I think the casting of this series' Mariko is a big mistake. After episode 6, no rational person can think that the Mariko of this series is nothing more than an arrogant contemporary strong western feminist. This Mariko lacks everything that comes from a Japanese woman from the time that lived under a highly patriarchal society. She's arrogant and the fact that she looks like a bar girl from Soi Cowboy and not a Japanese one puts my conservative thinking in a bad mood.

I'm sorry for being so petty.
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this is such a nutty and contrived take.

So based on this logic, every Japanese woman in the show is supposed to act one way, and one way only? That sounds incredibly boring.

And your criticism of TV Mariko doesn't even make sense. She is extremely formal and deferential to the power of men in her society. She adheres to all of the patriarchal social customs that every other woman in the show is adhering to. The whole point of her character is that she's a little bit different, and special, compared to the other Japanese women.

contemporary strong western feminist.
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Ahhhhh and there it is. That's what this take is really about. The 10,000 hours you've spent brainwashing yourself by watching Crowder, Shapiro, Sargon and whoever else, forces you to filter ALL of your media consumption through your republican culture war programming.

This wasn't an organic thought that you had. Any movie or TV show that you watch, you're primed and actively looking for "wokeness" to get angry about.
 
blackheart said:
this is such a nutty and contrived take.

So based on this logic, every Japanese woman in the show is supposed to act one way, and one way only? That sounds incredibly boring.

And your criticism of TV Mariko doesn't even make sense. She is extremely formal and deferential to the power of men in her society. She adheres to all of the patriarchal social customs that every other woman in the show is adhering to. The whole point of her character is that she's a little bit different, and special, compared to the other Japanese women.


Ahhhhh and there it is. That's what this take is really about. The 10,000 hours you've spent brainwashing yourself by watching Crowder, Shapiro, Sargon and whoever else, forces you to filter ALL of your media consumption through your republican culture war programming.

This wasn't an organic thought that you had. Any movie or TV show that you watch, you're primed and actively looking for "wokeness" to get angry about.
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You seem upset?

You have completely misunderstood me and then you start whining about wokeness and then you list names that I don't recognize at all.

To make a point again, I looked up this Anna Sawai who plays Mariko afterwards. Thus, it was confirmed why she doesn't have the sensitive Japanese way of being due to being raised in the western world. That's why she doesn't feel Japanese to me, as the other women in episode 6 in particular portray a Japanese woman in an authentic way.

I saw an episode of Monarch and the same Anna Sawai has one of the main roles. She plays herself as she does in Shogun. She seems arrogant, entitled, snobbish and kind of rude. She is the complete opposite of the eighties version of Mariko. She was the essence of an elegant Japanese with a long training behind her how to approach other people with delicate finesse. She was an eye-catcher. The Mariko of 2024 lacks this charisma.

Then I get curious about you. Do you always get fired up and accuse people of being Republicans and brainwashed? My few comments in this thread have been pretty clear. I like this new series but in my opinion one of the other Japanese girls in the series could have played Mariko instead.
 
Kimchii said:
The Mariko of 2024 lacks this charisma.
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Well, that's just like your opinion. I haven't seen any negative sentiment about her from the audience other than you. Personally, she's one of my favorite characters in the show. I find her to be absolutely elegant, beautiful, intelligent and mysterious.
Kimchii said:
Then I get curious about you. Do you always get fired up and accuse people of being Republicans and brainwashed? My few comments in this thread have been pretty clear. I like this new series but in my opinion one of the other Japanese girls in the series could have played Mariko instead.
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When you start talking about "typical strong feminist blah blah blah" you're explicitly diving into the realm of politics and you're signaling your republican culture warrior virtues.
 
blackheart said:
Well, that's just like your opinion. I haven't seen any negative sentiment about her from the audience other than you. Personally, she's one of my favorite characters in the show. I find her to be absolutely elegant, beautiful, intelligent and mysterious.

When you start talking about "typical strong feminist blah blah blah" you're explicitly diving into the realm of politics and you're signaling your republican culture warrior virtues.
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Of course it is, and you have a different opinion.

We all have different likes and tastes and it is rather unnecessary to drag politics into this conversation. You are certainly American and someone who is not, I think you would have been better off if you had had a few more parties that had been of equal size instead of the way it is now with 2 dominants that influence the rest of the population that creates discord and you point fingers at each other and find it difficult to listen to each other.

For my own part, I looked up this specific thread in the hope that there are others like me who may have seen the old series and with the good childhood memories. To now, with today's standard of technical quality, be able to compare the Shogun of 2024 with the old one. And further see if there are more like-minded people who have a great interest in Japan in general. I have been fascinated by Japan since an early age. A country that is completely different from others in many ways. A country that I personally think has the most interesting culture and history. A country with a history of working with details that ultimately turn into perfect crafts.

Otherwise, I am a big consumer of Japanese films and have probably seen thousands throughout my life. And then it's not just about the big movies, but also the TV episodes about Zatoichi and Tora-San. A fantastic director like Yoji Yamada has, through his countless films, helped me to understand Japan better. And the movies I like the most in my old age are the slice of life dramas that the Japanese master like no other.

Finally. This Anna Sawai might not be the best actress right? Not good enough to be able to hide her true self in real life. She cannot hide her Western upbringing and it unfortunately shines through in her interpretation of Mariko. If you think about it and compare the older version with today's. What do you think is the difference? Pardon my word usage now, but do you think of the word bitch with the older one? What about Mariko from 2024? Yes, she is indeed a bonafide bitch. As I said, my own personal opinion.

Have a good day.
 
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Kimchii said:
A defining detail in the previous series was that Blackthorne and Mariko sparked from the first time they met. Their subtle love was important to the story.

As I mentioned before, I think the casting of this series' Mariko is a big mistake. After episode 6, no rational person can think that the Mariko of this series is nothing more than an arrogant contemporary strong western feminist. This Mariko lacks everything that comes from a Japanese woman from the time that lived under a highly patriarchal society. She's arrogant and the fact that she looks like a bar girl from Soi Cowboy and not a Japanese one puts my conservative thinking in a bad mood.

I'm sorry for being so petty.
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Maybe the new Mariko is more historically accurate. As a noblewoman in that era she was well educated and could run administrative matters, balance the books, hire and fire etc. And her personal property was sort of separate from her husband's giving her more independence as well.
The old Mariko was more of a 1980s Cathay Pacific stewardess but I loved the old Shogun series.
 
Shogun is based on the after effects of Oda Namunaga assassination in real history right? Names are changed and love story etc added but it is supposed to somewhat follow general guidelines of the history? I started watching age of Samarai on netflix an it seemed pretty similar.
 
nhbfan8080 said:
Maybe the new Mariko is more historically accurate. As a noblewoman in that era she was well educated and could run administrative matters, balance the books, hire and fire etc. And her personal property was sort of separate from her husband's giving her more independence as well.
The old Mariko was more of a 1980s Cathay Pacific stewardess but I loved the old Shogun series.
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<lmao>. Now you definitely have never been to Japan ,know zero about japanese culture and have not read the book by Clawell. Yes these were rights and responsibilities of Japanese women but their behaviour was and is nothing like she acts. That is the problem..

This Mariko has zero in common with any historical or even modern approach to societal behaviour in Japan and it is far away from the book.

To me John, Mariko and esp. Obi are miscasts. Mariko is a californian woman "in charge",
John is just a brute without any sophisticated appaerance that makes him so special. This mix of warrior and intellectual that makes Toranaga enjoy him so much,. The most important aspect about Blackthorne is his brilliant way of thinking. And the worse Obi is a simp in the show when in the book he is a force of nature . Cunning, intelligent, secretive, powerfull,
 
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Streeter said:
Shogun is based on the after effects of Oda Namunaga assassination in real history right? Names are changed and love story etc added but it is supposed to somewhat follow general guidelines of the history? I started watching age of Samarai on netflix an it seemed pretty similar.
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Toranaga is basically Tokugawa. But it doesn’t follow the history exactly.
 
My Spot said:
I thought the 80s one was a miniseries but all I've seen on the high seas is a 3 hour movie.
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It was super condensed into a two tape VHS set at some point. That’s probably what you’re seeing. I think I may actually have the complete miniseries pirated in a hard drive at home
 
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