STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Guestx]

A common thing that's been said in this thread is that it's not WHAT happened, it's HOW it happened.
Yes, the central dilemma was being threatened with destruction from the First Order ~~but that's a very broad statement. The first order could have threatened them with hugs or rainbows. For the vehicle of this threat to be "we have 6 hours of gas left" is fucking absurd. That is just a terrible plot considering we're in a movie with light sabers, light speed warp travel and Wookies. "I don't have gas" is mind numbingly stupid to me.

I'll admit that the gas thing kind of sounds stupid on the surface. But Johnson was able to come up with a way to where the Rebellion was able to stay just out of striking distance, while being always on the brink of disaster. And the fuel issue acts a clock counting down the minutes to that destruction. As long as there's fuel left, our heroes have a chance to act and to save themselves. But we know that when the fuel is gone, it's lights out.

Will our heroes find a solution in time?

Many films use a "countdown clock" as a plot device. In this film it just happens to take the form of diminishing fuel reserves.

The casino. I'm all for world building. The casino didn't do that. That was a nothing scene. We learmed that there are rich people that liked to gamble...wow. so new. The casino served no purpose to further the story. Rose falls in love with Finn during this adventure because. .what? They shared a jail cell together for a few hours? Finn and Rose's purpose for being there was to get a hacker.
Instead, they get arrested for PARKING in the wrong spot, they then were ready to leave the planet WITHOUT what they came for...it was the random hacker who ended up saving them...for reasons unknown.

The parking issue was a bit of a problem for me as well, LOL, because it seemed like an overreaction to arrest someone for such a violation. I do think they could've come up with something better than that.

And I also thought it was weird that the guy they we're on the planet to find and convince to come break the code just suddenly disappears from the story and some other, random guy pops up to take his place.

These weren't movie-killing script elements for me, though. And I did like the casino world, but then again I just like casinos.

Why would you care about any of the characters? What do you know of them to care? I don't care about them because i know nothing about them.
Who is Finn? Why is he so infatuated with Rey? Who is Rey? Ah...just the daughter of a drunkard couple. Who is Ren? What does he want? Who is Snoke? Is this all that Luke is now? We had 3 movies with him as our hero. ..now he's just an old asshole drinking sea walrus milk? Even when the movie starts to do some character development, it then instantly kills the mood with a stupid joke.
"My sister died for the rebellion. .im sad......"20 seconds later" im gonna taze u, bro because ure tryin to hop outta here"
The character development, story, and tone made it impossible for me to give a shit about any of these people.
I don't know if you watch The walking Dead, but i had a similar feeling watching this movie. I didn't give a shit about any of these people

I think, for me at least, in many cases a lot of what makes me care about a character is how likable they are. How endearing they come across on screen.

I feel like Rey, Rose, Finn, Poe and most of the rest of the crew in this film come off as charismatic and likable people. They seem like cool cats, and that makes me wish for their health and safety, and it makes me want to see more of them.

You say you didn't like the humor or tone, but for me, it was the humor that really helped to make the characters more likable. For instance, take the first meeting with Finn and Rose. It's a funny scene. This is the first time we've ever seen Rose, and largely because of the way she played that scene she won me over pretty quickly.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I'll admit that the gas thing kind of sounds stupid on the surface. But Johnson was able to come up with a way to where the Rebellion was able to stay just out of striking distance, while being always on the brink of disaster. And the fuel issue acts a clock counting down the minutes to that destruction. As long as there's fuel left, our heroes have a chance to act and to save themselves. But we know that when the fuel is gone, it's lights out.

Will our heroes find a solution in time?

Many films use a "countdown clock" as a plot device. In this film it just happens to take the form of diminishing fuel reserves.



The parking issue was a bit of a problem for me as well, LOL, because it seemed like an overreaction to arrest someone for such a violation. I do think they could've come up with something better than that.

And I also thought it was weird that the guy they we're on the planet to find and convince to come break the code just suddenly disappears from the story and some other, random guy pops up to take his place.

These weren't movie-killing script elements for me, though. And I did like the casino world, but then again I just like casinos.



I think, for me at least, in many cases a lot of what makes me care about a character is how likable they are. How endearing they come across on screen.

I feel like Rey, Rose, Finn, Poe and most of the rest of the crew in this film come off as charismatic and likable people. They seem like cool cats, and that makes me wish for their health and safety, and it makes me want to see more of them.

You say you didn't like the humor or tone, but for me, it was the humor that really helped to make the characters more likable. For instance, take the first meeting with Finn and Rose. It's a funny scene. This is the first time we've ever seen Rose, and largely because of the way she played that scene she won me over pretty quickly.

But the entire stupid scenario was made by Johnson. I don't give him credit for finding a solution to the stupid problem he made up. You make a stupid situation, then i have to ask questions. Why is fuel an issue when we have light speed travel? There's gas stations for dreadnoughts? Why couldn't The First Order go faster? Why couldn't they send smaller ships after the rebels? Why do their lazers have a range? I DON'T WANT TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS. But if you make such an absurd premise, i cant not question it.
Again, do a "clock countdown " if you, must, but with the budget and power behind a legendary series like SWs....no gas was your best effort?

Yessss. Arrested for a parking violation? What?
And while one stupid instance wouldn't kill the movie for me...it wasn't one. It was many instances that just made no goddamn sense. Instead of doing what made sense, it felt like the movie was almost deliberately trying to be as difficult as possible.

I didn't hate any of the characters. Just like i don't hate most people, I also don't care about most people i have no personal attachments to...like everyone in this movie. They weren't offensive, but they gave me nothing to latch on to.
The movie didn't have to be Zack Snyder MOS or BvS serious, but the pacing in this movie was terrible. Just when you got a "moment" there'd be a joke 2 seconds later to take you out of it.
Opening scene is a perfect example. The First Order is about to decimate the rebels...serious shit...soo then they add a prank call..? In space communication? And a mama joke? And the GENERAL of the army is falling for this? Why should i care what happens when no one else on the movie seems to give a shit

 

[Guestx]

But the entire stupid scenario was made by Johnson. I don't give him credit for finding a solution to the stupid problem he made up. You make a stupid situation, then i have to ask questions. Why is fuel an issue when we have light speed travel? There's gas stations for dreadnoughts? Why couldn't The First Order go faster? Why couldn't they send smaller ships after the rebels? Why do their lazers have a range? I DON'T WANT TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS. But if you make such an absurd premise, i cant not question it.
Again, do a "clock countdown " if you, must, but with the budget and power behind a legendary series like SWs....no gas was your best effort?

I can understand the logic behind these questions after the fact and obviously I don't know the answers. But are ships in the future just not supposed to use fuel of some kind? I dunno. I've never really thought about it. Are future weapons not supposed to have a range of any kind? Again, I dunno, I've never really thought about it.

What I can say is that while watching the movie these things didn't bother me. I just accepted what the film was telling me--that ships need fuel and weapons have a range and whatever else--and went with it.

In regard to your one question about sending smaller ships though, I do think I have a sensible answer for that one: Small ships would not be effective against the Rebellion's much larger ship and were likely to just get picked off.

The movie didn't have to be Zack Snyder MOS or BvS serious, but the pacing in this movie was terrible. Just when you got a "moment" there'd be a joke 2 seconds later to take you out of it.
Opening scene is a perfect example. The First Order is about to decimate the rebels...serious shit...soo then they add a prank call..? In space communication? And a mama joke? And the GENERAL of the army is falling for this? Why should i care what happens when no one else on the movie seems to give a shit

I have to say, I really thought the prank call scene was funny and it set the tone for the rest of the film. I guess whether or not you feel that tone is appropriate will determine your reaction.

But this is a pretty clear example of what I've called the Guardians of the Galaxy effect. Obviously before GOTG there have been plenty of movies that combine humor with serious situations to create a certain tone, but it seems like ever since GOTG we're seeing a lot more of that. Marvel even copied themselves when they made Thor: Ragnarok.

I do think there's a danger here of this getting out of hand and studios overdoing it.

 

[vcmmafan]

Yeah im sure Disney is happy about half the audience not really digging the film. lol get a fucking break dumby.

It's not even that the other half Liked it

The AVERAGE score is currently at 6.2/10 (it was 6.4 a few days ago). A fresh review is a 6/10. The average for 148,696 people was 6.2. Only 52% of people gave it AT LEAST a 6.

You could get a 100% if every user gave it exactly a 6/10 lol

 

[punkmother]

anybody giving this movie a 10 is a card carrying member of the jar jar binks fan club. this movie would be the worst of the series if they hadn't made the prequels or the christmas special. even ewok adventures might be better. every death was anticlimactic, leia flying through space was a joke and luke became a cuck.

 

[mmafreedom]

I saw a theory video about Snoke knowing all along that Kylo was going to kill him, and it was all part of his plan. We may yet still see Snoke.

I think potentially, The Last Jedi's ratings could be better once the trilogy is complete.


Snoke theory video.



Snoke Death Scene where you can listen to Snoke's quote.

 

[Guestx]

It's not even that the other half Liked it

The AVERAGE score is currently at 6.2/10 (it was 6.4 a few days ago). A fresh review is a 6/10. The average for 148,696 people was 6.2. Only 52% of people gave it AT LEAST a 6.

You could get a 100% if every user gave it exactly a 6/10 lol

You can't weight the RT score--the same score that multiple groups have claimed they've trolled with bots--any heavier than the IMDB score.

7.7 on IMDB last I looked.

 

[vcmmafan]

You can't weight the RT score--the same score that multiple groups have claimed they've trolled with bots--any heavier than the IMDB score.

.

Is there actual hard proof that the 148,696 mostly poor user reviews are because of bots? Or is it just claims?

 

[armbarforhire]

I saw a theory video about Snoke knowing all along that Kylo was going to kill him, and it was all part of his plan. We may yet still see Snoke.

I think potentially, The Last Jedi's ratings could be better once the trilogy is complete.


Snoke theory video.



Snoke Death Scene where you can listen to Snoke's quote.

Maybe JJ will turn it around disregarding the mess TLJ was, but Johnson was on a clear path to destroy every fan theory and characther he disliked, pretty funny his apologist will create more fan theorys to try to save his ass.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I can understand the logic behind these questions after the fact and obviously I don't know the answers. But are ships in the future just not supposed to use fuel of some kind? I dunno. I've never really thought about it. Are future weapons not supposed to have a range of any kind? Again, I dunno, I've never really thought about it.

What I can say is that while watching the movie these things didn't bother me. I just accepted what the film was telling me--that ships need fuel and weapons have a range and whatever else--and went with it.

In regard to your one question about sending smaller ships though, I do think I have a sensible answer for that one: Small ships would not be effective against the Rebellion's much larger ship and were likely to just get picked off.



I have to say, I really thought the prank call scene was funny and it set the tone for the rest of the film. I guess whether or not you feel that tone is appropriate will determine your reaction.

But this is a pretty clear example of what I've called the Guardians of the Galaxy effect. Obviously before GOTG there have been plenty of movies that combine humor with serious situations to create a certain tone, but it seems like ever since GOTG we're seeing a lot more of that. Marvel even copied themselves when they made Thor: Ragnarok.

I do think there's a danger here of this getting out of hand and studios overdoing it.

The reason that i couldn't just accept that "ships need fuel, and weapons have ranges" is because it didn't fit in the world that this SW created in my eyes. Things like having to eat, or needing fuel...these small, REAL life concerns don't make sense to focus on in a SW movie. So, it was out of place t0 see it play a crucial role in the survival of the heroes.
If the purpose of the first Order was to destroy the rebels, then it makes no sense why they didn't send out whatever means they had to do that.
In a movie that has a giant bear as a pilot, a green elf midget ghost throwing out lightning bolts, and the host of other unbelievable things, to have shit like parking and fuel be what stand between life and death is dumb.
And in futuree movies, the audience now has to question how much gas a ship has, and why don't the rebels always just kamikaze ships into their enemies?

The problem with that opening prank scene for me, was 1...i didn't find it funny, and 2, it illustrated one of the key problems I had with the movie--the tone was all over the place. GOTG had this fun tone throughout the movie--but it worked for that movie, and those characters. It didn't work here because TLJ would insert jokes IN moments that were supposed to be serious.
The rebels are able to be destroyed--insert prank call, Luke meets Rey for the firsr time, they're having a moment--tosses the light saber, Kylo and Rey are having a connection--put a shirt on, etc etc etc. So many of the jokes were put in dumb moments where things should have been serious.
And then they made the villains look even more inept than they already were. I didn't care or worry about the heroes because they didn't seem to worry or care about the danger they were in based on all the dumb jokes and stupid decsions made.
None of these characters had the charisma or presence of Groot, let alone Starlord. I cared when I thought Groot died, i didn't care about anyone dying in TLJ.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

You can't weight the RT score--the same score that multiple groups have claimed they've trolled with bots--any heavier than the IMDB score.

7.7 on IMDB last I looked.

RT themselves said the user score for Last Jedi was legit

If the score is wrong due to bots dont you it would be in RT best interest to fix that

 

[Amerikuracana]

The threat in this series itself completely undermines the original trilogy. So, like, they didn't actually defeat anybody?

The new threat should have been a new sith order trying to defeat the new republic the rebels and planetary sytems formed after the destruction of the empire. They did not need to go full phantom talking galactic politics, but we don't even know whether the republic is reformed or what the hell happened after the empire was DEFEATED. This whole story falls flat. The threat needed to be a little different, and easily could have been. A new sith order trying to take over the galaxy could have caused the force to create powerful beings like Rey to counteract etc..

 

[Amerikuracana]

You can't weight the RT score--the same score that multiple groups have claimed they've trolled with bots--any heavier than the IMDB score.

7.7 on IMDB last I looked.

It ain't bots dude.. look at these threads. I'm a 7/10 guy, but this has even me wondering whether you work for Disney

100% not bots. No question.

 

[Goonerview]

Lol @ people claiming robots are to blame for the low RT score. What next Russian hackers?

 

[WAR_CLAY_GUIDA!!]

sums my feelings exactly.

 

[dc007]

Just saw it. Horribly average. It has it's moments of memberberry feels but overall is too long and too boring.

 

[Darkballs]

The rebels are able to be destroyed--insert prank call, Luke meets Rey for the firsr time, they're having a moment--tosses the light saber, Kylo and Rey are having a connection--put a shirt on, etc etc etc. So many of the jokes were put in dumb moments where things should have been serious.

I think this nails it.

I don't mind quirky if we're gonna set the tone for parts of the movie. But pace it. Look at Empire. We still had our one-liners and our jokes, but when it was time to set a serious tone, they kept that tone until the tension was gone. The last 45-minutes of Empire aren't interrupted with wise cracks.

With TLJ, we'd have a tense scene, where we are supposed to be worried that the final part of the rebellion is in danger of being wiped out, and we cut to a CGI chicken screeching for a cheap laugh. It takes you out of really feeling that there is some inherent danger here.

 

[Guestx]

The reason that i couldn't just accept that "ships need fuel, and weapons have ranges" is because it didn't fit in the world that this SW created in my eyes. Things like having to eat, or needing fuel...these small, REAL life concerns don't make sense to focus on in a SW movie. So, it was out of place t0 see it play a crucial role in the survival of the heroes.
If the purpose of the first Order was to destroy the rebels, then it makes no sense why they didn't send out whatever means they had to do that.
In a movie that has a giant bear as a pilot, a green elf midget ghost throwing out lightning bolts, and the host of other unbelievable things, to have shit like parking and fuel be what stand between life and death is dumb.
And in futuree movies, the audience now has to question how much gas a ship has, and why don't the rebels always just kamikaze ships into their enemies?

You make solid points. I'm just not sure how big of concerns they are for me.

I do want to address the "why don't the rebels always just kamikaze their ships" question though.

You could ask the same thing about our military: Why don't our pilots just fly their planes into enemy bases? Why don't our naval destroyers just ram the enemies' naval destroyers?

Well, for one, those planes and ships are FUCKING EXPENSIVE! And for another, there's the obvious loss of life.

When you really think about it, it's not a sound strategy. In this case, it made sense because the Rebellion was about to lose that ship anyway.

The problem with that opening prank scene for me, was 1...i didn't find it funny, and 2, it illustrated one of the key problems I had with the movie--the tone was all over the place. GOTG had this fun tone throughout the movie--but it worked for that movie, and those characters. It didn't work here because TLJ would insert jokes IN moments that were supposed to be serious.
The rebels are able to be destroyed--insert prank call, Luke meets Rey for the firsr time, they're having a moment--tosses the light saber, Kylo and Rey are having a connection--put a shirt on, etc etc etc. So many of the jokes were put in dumb moments where things should have been serious.
And then they made the villains look even more inept than they already were. I didn't care or worry about the heroes because they didn't seem to worry or care about the danger they were in based on all the dumb jokes and stupid decsions made.
None of these characters had the charisma or presence of Groot, let alone Starlord. I cared when I thought Groot died, i didn't care about anyone dying in TLJ.

Yeah, I think it all depends on what you want out of Star Wars. What kind of tone?

I think the tone has always been kind of uneven. I mean, in the Phantom Menace Jar Jar gets farted on.

 

[vcmmafan]

Lol @ people claiming robots are to blame for the low RT score. What next Russian hackers?

IMDB dropped from 7.7 to 7.6

 

[Guestx]

RT themselves said the user score for Last Jedi was legit

If the score is wrong due to bots dont you it would be in RT best interest to fix that

Not necessarily, no.

Is it in RT's best interest to admit that their scores can be manipulated so easily?

It ain't bots dude.. look at these threads. I'm a 7/10 guy, but this has even me wondering whether you work for Disney

100% not bots. No question.

You seem to be missing the point. Don't worry, a lot of others have too.

Here's the point:

The CinemaScore is an A. The IMDB score is a 7.6 after 205,000 votes.

The RT audience score is a 52% after 149,000 votes.

So does RT just attract a different kind of voter than IMDB and the average audience member polled by the CinemaScore crew? Or is there more to it?

The ONLY outlet reporting something that could be construed as a negative score is the RT audience score. EVERYTHING ELSE is positive.

For the record again, here's what the IMDB voting looks like (and make a note of the fact that IMDB has over 50,000 more votes than RT):