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He showed up at the end for a lame fight then died for no reason& then he saved the day & it cost him his life.
He showed up at the end for a lame fight then died for no reason& then he saved the day & it cost him his life.
You should read Film Crit Hulk's take on JJ Abrams. Article One. Article Two. There are more, and in more recent years he abandoned the ALL CAPS gimmick. Essentially: Abrams is mostly TONE.Exellent post, to me TLJ is the nadir of the current Hollywood culture of not respecting the writing process, that the script doesn't really matter when you throw a couple of hundren million at it. I do very strongly suspect though that Disney had a HEAVY hand in that script, to me it seems like its basic ideas are potentially solid but end up vastly simplified, avoiding any real challenges and shoehorning a lot of irrelevant nonsense in. I mean Johnson wrote Looper, maybe not the best film ever made but still he clearly has talent beyond what we saw here.
I actually think that Abrams invented a style of film making that deliberately tries to bamboozle audiences/critics on first viewing that fed though into this film. Basically events keep happening so quickly that its very difficult to really digest them and your kind of left scratching your head as to whether it was anygood or not. I think beyond hype/corruption/politics that actually kind of helps explain the critical reaction to TLJ, if your already biased on favour of the film its easy in the above situation to believe you'd just seen greatness.
He showed up at the end for a lame fight then died for no reason
I think he did. Hamill will probably be back, most likely as a force ghost. Doesn't matter though either way. I have no faith in Jar Jar Abrams.or did he
In the next picture you can not only see that but you can very easily see 2 star Destroyers way way over there to the right. The supremacy is 30 miles long.
Actually that thing about there being another dreadnaught was an argument presented by one of you resistors. They were making a point to me that it was obvious that the First Order had more military & so my information about the 30 Star Destroyers they have was worthless.. lol... So he argued the fact that there was obviously at least one more dreadnaught... which somehow in his mind is equal to my information.... lol....
That said.... I think you are completely ignoring what I said about all the star Destroyers not being destroyed in that impact... & you don't need anything but the movie to prove it. That Raddus impact only ripped through one area. The other Star destroyers were not in a perfect line behind that exact spot... lol... Please tell me you are not going to argue that. Here's a picture from the movie.
You can not only see that all the star destroyers were not directly behind that spot... but most of them are also flying a significant distance under the Supremacy.
In the next picture you can not only see that but you can very easily see 2 star Destroyers way way over there to the right. The supremacy is 30 miles long. That little blue light you see on the left is the Raddus just as it impacted the Supremacy. So those 2 star Destroyers on the far right are at least 10 miles away from the impact. Those 2 on the far left are around 7 miles from impact... so it's safe to say that you have 4 star destroyers that are in tact. If anything some debris bounced off of them or something causing very minor damage if any.
Each Star Destroyer has 70,000 people & 144 tie fighters on it.
x4 that means that the First Order has an absolute minimum of 280,000 people & 576 Tie Fighters.
You can also see from the movie that at least 15 - 20 miles of the Supremacy was un-damaged, so however many people were over there... & how ever much equipment & tie fighters were in there will be added to the military.
& that is all assuming that those other 6 Star Destroyers were all just completely annihilated... which I find very unlikely.
but all of this is just to appease your insistence that outside canon can't be discussed. Because the actual fact is that the entire miliary of the First order had 30 of those Star Destroyers & only 10 of them were present in this movie... So adding onto the miliary we know survived the impact from the Raddus is 20 more star Destroyers which hold a combined total of 1,400,000 people & 2,880 Tie fighters.
Irrelevant. It neither enhances the story nor kills it. I will digress that Maz should not had made such a big deal out of the limited amount of people who could do it.... but again, that's a minor thing & so what. Fact is they spent about 5 seconds of the movie with them noticing that dude with the flower... & that's it. So I'm not sure what you're talking about with that being a big time waster.
The way they showed Finn being in awe of the place was very important to Finn's character development because when Rose showed him the ugly side of Canto Bight & the slaver & child abuse, you get a feel for how Finn will eventually go from someone who just wants to save his friend Rey... to really understanding the value of the Rebels & making a switch to being a full on member. Now in the next movie, we will understand why Finn stays instead of going back to wanting to run away. it's also important for us the viewers to understand why the Rebels & the New Republic are the good guys. They are trying to get rid of that corruption & abuse. It's clear who the movie wants us to view as the bad guys... but it's only in scenes like that where we as the audience can agree that yes, that's f*cked up & I want the people trying to change that to win.
I disagree. I see tremendous growth & character development in almost all the main characters that they introduced. As mentioned above.... Finn's journey is a parallel to why the viewing audience understands who the bad guys are & his slow but steady switch from being a storm trooper to joining the rebels explains that perfectly.
We know a lot about Kylo. I really don't get anyone who says he's under explained. I will admit we don't know what he's going to do with the first order, but it's only been about a half a day since he was in charge... & so we gotta wait for the final act for that answer, but we know a lot about him other than that. Like deep psychological stuff that run him from behind the scenes. I'm not sure what more you could want.
Same with Rey. We got to see what was mind fooking her & driving her this whole time, & when you see her give up on that in a therapeutic chat with the villain you see a character who is now been made free of that having power over her. She's got a tremendous backstory having to become an elite staff fighter to survive & learn about ship mechanics by being a scrapper for a living... & now the force awakens in her & she has to figurre it all out. It's a fascinating story.
Well I & a lot of people disagree.
I mean, I could go on... but I just keep getting the feeling you don't really want to hear any of it. maybe you're happier chatting with people who just want to sh*t on everything & agree with you that it sux yeah?
WHERE'S THE GAWDAMNED COMMENT SECTION?!?!?... seven?
If I wasn't interested in conversation I wouldn't of bothered to read your posts, or taken the time to write a reply.
I'm not sure where this characterization of me came from as i am not throwing out any personal insults, and am giving exact reasons why I didnt like things, and not simply saying "this movie sucks"
I appreciate your passion, and respect the time you put into your posts while remaining civil, so I am not about to take the time qnd energy to read or write anything for nothing
As far as the dreadnaughts go. ..my main point wasn't about how many exactly are left. Again, you keep going back to the source material. You need to look at this from a viewer's perspective, a viewer that has read no source material.
I am a casual Star Wars fan. All I have is what i watch on the screen. If you have read the books, then the lack of onscreen details will likely be easier for you to swallow---but how can you expect a person that has none of that outside information to give the movie the same leeway?
Lol I see the pictures you posted, and i just watched the clip of the scene that @One MMA Fan posted....was I supposed to count how many ships are left in real time? Look at that clip. Despite whatever numbers are left according to your calculations from the source...looking at that scene makes me think that that fleet is done. Not that ALL their ships are destroyed, but that they received a fatal blow that would make their threat to the galaxy over.
And this goes back to my point of what the movie shows vs what blanks you're filling in with your imagination and source material
The movie does not make me feel like The Order is still a credible, scary threat at the end of the movie. I felt like the rebels had a close win, if anything. If that wasn't the intent, then the movie did an awful job of making me feel that the Order was anything to worry about
DJ---- . Canto was a waste of time because Finn and Rose had to go to the casino to look for a guy that wasn't even there, then they get arrested for a parking violation to look for this guy that wasn't even there, and then they have to go on a prison break and chase to escape a jail cell without even getting the guy they came for. That entire plot was a waste of time. There are literally countless ways they could have better spent that time. The problem isn't that they went to Canto, it's the stupid crap they did when they got there.
So with Finn seeing the corruption and who the bad guys are, and why fight for the rebels, all that is fine. But that is extremely shallow development . I mean, really...slavery is bad. ..? Animal abuse is bad? Is that really a big revelation? It's pretty clear who the bad guys are.
Finn is aware of that from TFA when he is ordered to fire on civilians. Who doesn’t understand the Order is bad? A trilogy needs to go a lot deeper than that. Finn is a former stormtrooper. How does he have nothing to say about that life? Or about his new freedom? He is an extremely shallow character
Kylo..we don't know what he wants. That is key for me. The biggest issue i have with his character is that he doesn't seem to know what he wants. And his actions in TFA don't add up to his actions in TLJ.
Rey...is bland. I don't find anything fascinating about her, or her story. So she just became an elite staff fighter and mechanic because .....? Can i do the same if i get stranded on some desert planet? Who taught her? Did she train herself? Her just knowing how to do everything is not interesting.
He showed up at the end for a lame fight then died for no reason
I appreciate what you said in your opener about how you are willing to discuss things. I apologize for the heathens that have come before you that have made me so cynical. Typically when I take the time to write something out, it falls on deaf earz.what blanks you're filling in with your imagination and source material
Oh my... twice you say that he wasn't there.DJ---- . Canto was a waste of time because Finn and Rose had to go to the casino to look for a guy that wasn't even there, then they get arrested for a parking violation to look for this guy that wasn't even there, and then they have to go on a prison break and chase to escape a jail cell without even getting the guy they came for. That entire plot was a waste of time. There are literally countless ways they could have better spent that time. The problem isn't that they went to Canto, it's the stupid crap they did when they got there.
Are you one of these guys that feel like every movie should stand on it's own?So with Finn seeing the corruption and who the bad guys are, and why fight for the rebels, all that is fine. But that is extremely shallow development . I mean, really...slavery is bad. ..? Animal abuse is bad? Is that really a big revelation? It's pretty clear who the bad guys are.
Finn is aware of that from TFA when he is ordered to fire on civilians. Who doesn’t understand the Order is bad? A trilogy needs to go a lot deeper than that. Finn is a former stormtrooper. How does he have nothing to say about that life? Or about his new freedom? He is an extremely shallow character
Not sure what your descrepancy is about Kylo's actions between Ep. 7 & 8... I'm not aware of any paradox's.Kylo..we don't know what he wants. That is key for me. The biggest issue i have with his character is that he doesn't seem to know what he wants. And his actions in TFA don't add up to his actions in TLJ.
Your first question is soooooooo obvious. Do you realize she grew up on Jakku that is a criminal based planet where you could die with the wrong words being spoken? You either learn to fight or you die. The force may not have awakened in her yet, but like Anakin was the only human who could pod race... she had an exceptional advantage that non-force sensitives do not have.Rey...is bland. I don't find anything fascinating about her, or her story. So she just became an elite staff fighter and mechanic because .....? Can i do the same if i get stranded on some desert planet? Who taught her? Did she train herself? Her just knowing how to do everything is not interesting.
I appreciate what you said in your opener about how you are willing to discuss things. I apologize for the heathens that have come before you that have made me so cynical. Typically when I take the time to write something out, it falls on deaf earz.
Now that I have digressed regarding that, I would like you to recognize that this is the 2nd or 3rd time you have mentioned me filling in blanks with "my imagination." Make no mistake... everything I tell you is canon... is to the best of my knowledge actual Canon. I'm not saying I won't f*ck up with the massive amount of information that's out there... but the only thing I ever fill in with my imagination is when we are clearly talking about speculation of a future movie. If I'm ever talking about the past... then I am not talking about "imagination."
So this buisiness about where Ep. 9 can take us is speculation... but I have supplied Canon that tells us where it might go do to the fact that the First Order has more military. If you want to have a discussion about how the movie stands on its own... then I can see your point that extra canon could be excluded. I don't experience star wars that way, but I understand that others do. However, if we're going to have a discussion about where Ep. 9 can go.... then you gotta quit being so strict about "movie only" information. You are literally speculating with blinders on.
That said... Ep. 8 is a wrap whether you believe there's more fleet left or not. The information I'm telling you is not necessary for Ep. 8 to be complete. It is however necessary to speculate about what might happen in Ep. 9. Hope that makes sense.
Oh my... twice you say that he wasn't there.
Bro... I've seen the movie 6 times. He was there. They saw him just before they got arrested.
I explained the importance of the canto bight scene regarding Finn's character development & you are dismissing it.
Are you one of these guys that feel like every movie should stand on it's own?
I ask because I hear a lot of that from people who insist that any information given on Snoke in act 3 is useless because movie 2 should stand on its own. (which I also have a problem with regarding leaving mysteries for the next movie.)
Well, you are here telling me that they gave an explanation to Finn's VERY IMPORTANT transformation in Ep. 7 & therefore it is un-necessary for them to put it in Ep. 8. So which is it? Do movies need to stand on their own, or can they borrow points made from other movies? and if you agree with the later, then what's the problem waiting for Ep. 9 to fill in a bunch of the blanks yeah?
I disagree though that the opening scene that made Finn defect, was enough for Ep. 8 as well. Reason being that at the end of Ep. 8, he was only in it to save Rey. Well, now through the happenings of this movie... he is a full on rebel... & so I feel we needed something to show why that is. In fact one of the resistance problems that people bring up constantly is that they don't buy finn's change. They bitch because he just wanted to run & then ended up risking his life. Well, right there at Canto Bight is when that transformation took place.
Not sure what your descrepancy is about Kylo's actions between Ep. 7 & 8... I'm not aware of any paradox's.
Regarding knowing what Kylo wants is only an Ep. 9 question. It was not a concern for Ep. 8. That answer was clear. he wanted to be taught what Snoke could teach him in order to expand his knowledge of the force. Once Snoke died, he went to kill the Rebels & then the movie's over. Sorry bro... but you're just gonna have to wait for the finale. Do you even see the problem with you wanting to know all the answers before the story is done being told? It's like if you would've watched a 2 hour movie but you stopped it at 1 1/2 hours & now you're super pissed because the movie had no conclusion...
Your first question is soooooooo obvious. Do you realize she grew up on Jakku that is a criminal based planet where you could die with the wrong words being spoken? You either learn to fight or you die.
She was also a scavenger of parts in order to keep herself alive & buy food. Wasn't all that pretty obvious in the movie? You have to know what you're looking at if you are going to scavenge & sell parts. otherwise she's going to bring an empty beer can to Plutt & expect him to feed her. No bro... it's so very obvious that she had to know exactly what she was looking at. She had to know ships. So she taught herself & that's how she's able to fix the Falcon. It's very understandable... & self evident within the movie unless you just need every little thing spelled out. Which you don't.
Who taught her & why she knows all that stuff is 100% inconsequential to the plot. You do not need to know that in order for the movie to stand on it's own. For those with a more curious nature, we have a nice novel that explains how the place she made her home had an active computer with all the information on a great variety of ships. It also had a flight simulator that she became so good at that she would set it to the hardest settings & the most obstacles & she mastered it. She learned many languages from that computer as well including binary droid language & wookiee. There were some Wookiee's who regularly frequented Jakku for trading & Rey befriended them... & so it was in her interest to master the language.
@One MMA Fan @EvilDDS
A gif isn't a response. Luke changes his mind inexplicably and decides to help last minute. I don't mind force projection or the idea of using it as misdirection, but the fight itself I hated. It wasn't even a fight, just Matrix inspired dodgy bullshit.
I caught that myself and felt it worked on a number of levels. Hubris, like you said, being one. Desperation was another; insisting on the imperative.The only thing that irked me was Rey thinking she need to translate Chewbacca for Luke.
It should have been obvious to her she would not need to in that situation.
Especially since Luke is responding to what Chewie is saying.
Made her look like a know it all.
that was explained in the movie by Kylo to Rey I believe when he said that they would've died if they did something like that.A gif isn't a response. Luke changes his mind inexplicably and decides to help last minute. I don't mind force projection or the idea of using it as misdirection, but the fight itself I hated. It wasn't even a fight, just Matrix inspired dodgy bullshit.
Why did he die exactly? Because he tired himself out? That's lame as shit.
that was explained in the movie by Kylo to Rey I believe when he said that they would've died if they did something like that.
@One MMA Fan @EvilDDS what's that reference I'm referring to? Chikinfooka forgot that was explained in the movie.