Stop looking at mass killers as unique murderers... How to really stop this..

[spamking]

I want a full FBI background check, like what you have to get to work at a bank. They don't just "make a phone call". Plus, not everywhere has the same standard. I want a Federal standard, and I want more things to disqualify people from gun ownership.

Um, outside of the states that conduct their own, an FFL calls the same FBI NICs number or logs in to the same EZ Check system to get the results . . . so their pretty much is a Federal standard.

How would the FBI have access to these "more things to disqualify" people?

 

[Overtures]

"If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933

aren't there examples of countries with gun control other than Nazi Germany? Isn't Japan real safe?


Bruuhh

 

[Gregolian]

aren't there examples of countries with gun control other than Nazi Germany? Isn't Japan real safe?


Bruuhh

There's a huge difference between the US and Japan though historically with guns. In Japan they never had like 5:1 ratio gun to people like the US (or whatever number it is in the US), PLUS, I think any personally owned weapons (swords, guns and shit) were "commandeered" by the Japanese army in WWII to melt down and make some really REALLY shoddy firearms towards the end for their military.

 

[AFCrookie]

Really? More than 50% of combat veterans engage in self harm or have expressed a serious interest in killing themselves?

I doubt that.

Um. You served in the military or in combat? Because I have, and most grunts would admit, if they had to be honest, thoughts of self harm.

50% was a conservative estimate, to be honest.

 

[Islam Imamate]

He's just straight deflecting to avoid the gun control debate that's coming.

We've been having this debate for years now and nothing ever comes of it, I've gotten to the point where I honestly don't care anymore. I know it sounds harsh but in the grand scheme of things these shootings are outliers and I'd rather address the larger majority of gun violence. Even then I don't necessarily support gun control, rather I think the way to solving violence in this country is to reduce economic inequality.

And to be clear the lack of legislation can be blamed on both sides of the aisle. The GOP, with NRA support, offered a compromise bill in 2016 on the issue of "no fly, no buy" which IMO was even better than the law written by the Dems and yet the Dems turned them down. Either way I don't think it would've stopped this latest shooting but the point is both sides have their uncompromising partisans.

 

[Overtures]

There's a huge difference between the US and Japan though historically with guns. In Japan they never had like 5:1 ratio gun to people like the US (or whatever number it is in the US), PLUS, I think any personally owned weapons (swords, guns and shit) were "commandeered" by the Japanese army in WWII to melt down and make some really REALLY shoddy firearms towards the end for their military.

None of that matters

 

[Gregolian]

None of that matters

lol wut. How does it NOT matter.

I'd really like to know how people propose to get the 300 million guns that ARE KNOWN OFF in the US gone if they implement a defacto Japanese/Aussie style ban of firearms.

 

[Byron Carter]

Um. You served in the military or in combat? Because I have, and most grunts would admit, if they had to be honest, thoughts of self harm.

50% was a conservative estimate, to be honest.

Maybe you're just mentally ill, and projecting your thoughts onto the people around you?

 

[lilelvis]

aren't there examples of countries with gun control other than Nazi Germany? Isn't Japan real safe?


Bruuhh

For now, yes. But that is not what the quote was referring to. It's the propaganda part.

Anyone who knows even a little about history and human nature realizes that it is pretty short sighted to give your right of self defense over the state. It has never worked out for very long.

 

[spamking]

1. National firearm database.

Nope

2. Expanded background checks.

Expanded how?

3. Purchase tracking(guns and ammo)

Nope

4. More than certain number of rounds of ammo needs to be stored at your gun range where you're a member.

Nope

5. Incredibly stringent securiyy requirements for storage of guns and ammo. Fingerprint ID safe mandated, ammo storage at gun ranges above military standards.

While good practice . . . nope . . . not enforceable.

6. All assault rifles made illegal.

Define assault rifle . . .

7. 25 to own a handgun.

It's already 21 in most states I believe . . . has room to improve though.

8. Make personal firearm resale illegal.

Nope

9. Make commission of a crime with a stolen gun a criminal penalty for the owner of the gun that was stolen.

*if it wasn't properly reported as stolen to authorities . . . even then, I'm not sure I like this if it was stored properly and still stolen.

10. 5 round max capacity magazines.

Nope

11. Gun buyback for existing assault, auto, and other combat weapons.

Voluntary programs like this have their place . . .

12. No more gun shows. Period. Only authorized gun sellers who meet the highest requirements will be allowed to sell guns.

What percentage of sellers at a gun show do you honestly believe aren't FFLs?

No, I think the 2nd refers to militias. I'd be ok with every town and municipality having guns and ammo ready if the apocalypse breaks out. I'd even be ok with mandatory training for everyone in town of a certain age. Actual militias. Sounds fine. 300 million guns in circulation? Not fine. A heavily disturbed 19 year old with a violent past getting an AR-15 no problem? Not fine. Every home allowed to have up to 3 guns? Fine. People with 20+ weapons arsenals? Not fine.

If 300 million guns were actually a problem I think you'd know by now . . . you and the government have no right to limit how many firearms someone can own . . . arsenals . . . give me a break.

 

[second sight]

My sister is a couple years younger than me and we now have (grown kids) about the same age. During their pregnancies my wife went on a strict diet, no alcohol, no caffeine, etc. totally healthy. My sister drank diet cokes all day long through her first 2 pregnancies, we told her to stop but she would listen.
Her kids have been off, weird their whole life, they had to be put on behavioral medications because they couldn't handle they way they acted. Their son got in fight after fight in elementary school, he hit kids just for talking to girls he talked to. I guess the only way he got away with it was it was years ago and my sister worked at the same school.
As he got to high school I thought several times it wouldn't surprise me if he did something crazy, like shoot up the school.
These 2 kids have been a trip their entire life, the daughter is not much different aside from the fights.
They had a third kids years later and she treated that pregnancy different, knocked off all the diet cokes and that kid is completely normal. To the point she babysits her sister 10 years older than her.

I am 100 percent certain the artificial sugar in those diet cokes gave those kids brain damage and behavior issues. I also think this would be a good place to start looking for shit like we're dealing with now

 

[spamking]

Federal Firearm Licensees (FFL’s) are individuals “engaged in the business” of selling guns and are required to register with and be licensed by the US government. They are also required to conduct instant criminal background checks on all gun buyers -and are prohibited from selling guns to convicted felons, domestic abusers, and juveniles.

Unlicensed sellers are people who may sell a small or large amount of guns but do not (or are not supposed to) earn their livelihood from firearm sales. These sellers do not have to conduct criminal background checks on gun sales. Unlicensed sellers may sell guns at gun shows, out of their homes, or even over the Internet.

What is the “gun show loophole”?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires anyone engaged in the business of selling guns to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and keep a record of their sales. However, this law does not cover all gun sellers. If a supplier is selling from his or her private collection and the principal objective is not to make a profit, the seller is not “engaged in the business” and is not required to have a license. Because they are unlicensed, these sellers are not required to keep records of sales and are not required to perform background checks on potential buyers, even those prohibited from purchasing guns by the Gun Control Act. The gun show loophole refers to the fact that prohibited purchasers can avoid required background checks by seeking out these unlicensed sellers at gun shows.



https://www.csgv.org/issues-archive/gun-show-loophole-faq/

If anything it's a private sale loophole . . . an educated person would know this . . .

 

[spamking]

I just don't get why anyone would argue stronger back round checks. Everything else we do has them. If your kid was shot dead, it wouldn't seem far fetched.

1. A system that doesn't have cracks, that needs to match applications filled out in the gun store EXACTLY. 1. Steady address for at least 2 years.
2. Steady employment for 2 years
3. Proof of no criminal or childhood record
4. Same for Mental Health issues/Drug abuse/Prescribed meds for mental issues.
5. Waiting periods for handguns, and semi auto rifles. If you are a responsible gun owner, you can wait.
6. Class for proper handling. Once you have the class, no need to take it again if you purchase another.

If you pass a thorough background check or already have a concealed carry permit you shouldn't have to wait . . . what other rights do you have to cool off or wait to exercise?

 

[Gregolian]

While good practice . . . nope . . . not enforceable.

"Above military standard".... People DO know everything in the military is made by the lowest bidder right?

 

[Rational Poster]

Nope



Expanded how?



Nope



Nope



While good practice . . . nope . . . not enforceable.



Define assault rifle . . .



It's already 21 in most states I believe . . . has room to improve though.



Nope



*if it wasn't properly reported as stolen to authorities . . . even then, I'm not sure I like this if it was stored properly and still stolen.




Nope



Voluntary programs like this have their place . . .




What percentage of sellers at a gun show do you honestly believe aren't FFLs?




If 300 million guns were actually a problem I think you'd know by now . . . you and the government have no right to limit how many firearms someone can own . . . arsenals . . . give me a break.

Saying nope isn't an argument, fyi.

 

[spamking]

Saying nope isn't an argument, fyi.

Don't care . . . we've already went over this crap before . . . you're not budging . . . and I'm not budging.

 

[Byron Carter]

Saying nope isn't an argument, fyi.

This isn't an argument.

It's a negotiation.

National Database, mandatory gun buybacks, limiting magazine capacity, etc. Are not on the table, and never will be.

 

[Rational Poster]

Don't care . . . we've already went over this crap before . . . you're not budging . . . and I'm not budging.

Nope.

 

[Rational Poster]

This isn't an argument.

It's a negotiation.

National Database, mandatory gun buybacks, limiting magazine capacity, etc. Are not on the table, and never will be.

 

[Byron Carter]

This is the sort of mature response to expect from the left.. I guess we shouldn't expect ANY change then.

Carry on, folks.