Stop looking at mass killers as unique murderers... How to really stop this..

[hillelslovak87]

I'm not ignoring it - I'm saying it's not the cause. Homicide is a means to an end. That end, is suicide.

These shooters desire death.

None of them to my knowledge have ever had an escape plan. The two that I can think of that were captured alive, probably bitched out and couldn't go through with offing themselves.

James Holmes dropped his weapon and walked out of the back of the movie theater, dazed and confused. Cruz walked to the nearest McDonald's and sat down and stared blankly into space.

I see these mass shootings as distinct. I would place them closer to AQ and IS than some guy who murders his wife. These people are typically virgins with extremely fucked up views towards women, have delusions of martyrdom and grandeur, see massive conspiracies towards them, and usually seem to think they have to do what they did in order to achieve some fame or legacy.

Distinct in morality and intention in contrast to an escalating road rage situation where someone pulls out a pistol.

 

[sub_thug]

No, I think the 2nd refers to militias. I'd be ok with every town and municipality having guns and ammo ready if the apocalypse breaks out. I'd even be ok with mandatory training for everyone in town of a certain age. Actual militias. Sounds fine. 300 million guns in circulation? Not fine. A heavily disturbed 19 year old with a violent past getting an AR-15 no problem? Not fine. Every home allowed to have up to 3 guns? Fine. People with 20+ weapons arsenals? Not fine.

The Heller decision in the Supreme Court reaffirms the individual's right to keep and bear arms. I'll have more later, but I need to run now.

 

[zebby23]

1. National firearm database.
2. Expanded background checks.
3. Purchase tracking(guns and ammo)
4. More than certain number of rounds of ammo needs to be stored at your gun range where you're a member.
5. Incredibly stringent securiyy requirements for storage of guns and ammo. Fingerprint ID safe mandated, ammo storage at gun ranges above military standards.
6. All assault rifles made illegal.
7. 25 to own a handgun.
8. Make personal firearm resale illegal.
9. Make commission of a crime with a stolen gun a criminal penalty for the owner of the gun that was stolen.
10. 5 round max capacity magazines.
11. Gun buyback for existing assault, auto, and other combat weapons.
12. No more gun shows. Period. Only authorized gun sellers who meet the highest requirements will be allowed to sell guns.

Gun owners should also have to purchase and maintain firearm insurance

 

[Prime Rib]

So guns for them then?

 

[lilelvis]

No, I think the 2nd refers to militias. I'd be ok with every town and municipality having guns and ammo ready if the apocalypse breaks out. I'd even be ok with mandatory training for everyone in town of a certain age. Actual militias. Sounds fine. 300 million guns in circulation? Not fine. A heavily disturbed 19 year old with a violent past getting an AR-15 no problem? Not fine. Every home allowed to have up to 3 guns? Fine. People with 20+ weapons arsenals? Not fine.

The Founding Fathers on Arms
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8

 

[HomerThompson]

The Founding Fathers on Arms
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8

Are all those part of the Constitution too?

 

[lilelvis]

This is what it takes for a conservative to rationalize common sense.

"If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Federal Firearm Licensees (FFL’s) are individuals “engaged in the business” of selling guns and are required to register with and be licensed by the US government. They are also required to conduct instant criminal background checks on all gun buyers -and are prohibited from selling guns to convicted felons, domestic abusers, and juveniles.

Unlicensed sellers are people who may sell a small or large amount of guns but do not (or are not supposed to) earn their livelihood from firearm sales. These sellers do not have to conduct criminal background checks on gun sales. Unlicensed sellers may sell guns at gun shows, out of their homes, or even over the Internet.

What is the “gun show loophole”?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires anyone engaged in the business of selling guns to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and keep a record of their sales. However, this law does not cover all gun sellers. If a supplier is selling from his or her private collection and the principal objective is not to make a profit, the seller is not “engaged in the business” and is not required to have a license. Because they are unlicensed, these sellers are not required to keep records of sales and are not required to perform background checks on potential buyers, even those prohibited from purchasing guns by the Gun Control Act. The gun show loophole refers to the fact that prohibited purchasers can avoid required background checks by seeking out these unlicensed sellers at gun shows.



https://www.csgv.org/issues-archive/gun-show-loophole-faq/

Good job do some homework. You probably needs some help processing what this means. Unlicensed sales are simply private sales. Americans have the right to sell and trade their personal property to other individuals. Selling guns you no longer want doesn't make you a dealer any more than selling your used cars does. The federal government has no right to interfere with these private sales because that's not commerce. States can require a dealer transfer for private sales. Mine does.

Gun shows are not special places where laws don't otherwise apply. You understand that, right?

 

[lilelvis]

Are all those part of the Constitution too?

Is your "thinking" that the second refers to militias part of the constitution? Those are the words of the guys that framed it. Their intentions were crystal clear.

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

 

[Letssnuggle]

But they are a unique, USA phenomenon when you consider the rest of the world has close to zero problems with school shootings. I don't see why you would completely ignore the homicidal nature of their crime.

"Just" suicidal people don't go around shooting up schools.

And compare America to the rest of the world in the 60s. America didn’t have a mass shooting problem back then.

What America has is a fundamental breakdown of the American family. And our society is now bearing its fruit.

 

[lilelvis]

Shall not be infringed.

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

 

[BudKing8806]

I want a full FBI background check, like what you have to get to work at a bank. They don't just "make a phone call". Plus, not everywhere has the same standard. I want a Federal standard, and I want more things to disqualify people from gun ownership.

I'm going to let you in on a secret piece of information my friend. No one in this world gives a flying fuck what you want.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The right is dependent on it being used for keeping a militia. Technically, individuals have no right to bear arms for personal use.

"The People" have the right. It couldn't be stated more plainly. The forming of militias is stated as a reason to enumerate the specific restriction on federal power. If the 1st said "Libraries being necessary for the furtherance of public education, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed." could you honestly say you'd interpret that to mean only libraries and librarians could own whatever books they wanted?

Maybe you're confused because you don't understand that the 2nd Amendment prohibits the federal government from doing something. What do you think that is if it's not from interfering in the right of the people to keep and bear arms (i.e. not just firearms)?

 

[splendica]

I think @Byron Carter is right on here.

 

[AFCrookie]

The criteria you mentioned would effectively keep at least 50% of combat veterans from owning a firearm.

 

[all caps]

What is it that stops more people from doing this, as we travel along on this path to nowhere?

 

[I Am Legion]

I just don't get why anyone would argue stronger back round checks. Everything else we do has them. If your kid was shot dead, it wouldn't seem far fetched.

1. A system that doesn't have cracks, that needs to match applications filled out in the gun store EXACTLY. 1. Steady address for at least 2 years.
2. Steady employment for 2 years
3. Proof of no criminal or childhood record
4. Same for Mental Health issues/Drug abuse/Prescribed meds for mental issues.
5. Waiting periods for handguns, and semi auto rifles. If you are a responsible gun owner, you can wait.
6. Class for proper handling. Once you have the class, no need to take it again if you purchase another.

 

[Byron Carter]

The criteria you mentioned would effectively keep at least 50% of combat veterans from owning a firearm.

Really? More than 50% of combat veterans engage in self harm or have expressed a serious interest in killing themselves?

I doubt that.

 

[Byron Carter]

I just don't get why anyone would argue stronger back round checks. Everything else we do has them. If your kid was shot dead, it wouldn't seem far fetched.

1. A system that doesn't have cracks, that needs to match applications filled out in the gun store EXACTLY. 1. Steady address for at least 2 years.
2. Steady employment for 2 years
3. Proof of no criminal or childhood record
4. Same for Mental Health issues/Drug abuse/Prescribed meds for mental issues.
5. Waiting periods for handguns, and semi auto rifles. If you are a responsible gun owner, you can wait.
6. Class for proper handling. Once you have the class, no need to take it again if you purchase another.

Too far, particularly the steady address/employment.

 

[I Am Legion]

Too far, particularly the steady address/employment.

It has to be more stringent than it is. Steady address and employment eliminates a lot of unstable people. Im not advocating a ban on anything. Just make sure responsible people are armed ones. Cant get a car loan without that. Lots of people cant even get hired without that.