The similarity between Calvinism and leftism

[IndyCovaHart]

Just give it a few more generations and we’ll get there.

There is some very old thought and influence that needs to die out.

 

[MicroBrew]

Were slaves autonomous? It's hard to see how you could credit slaves with building America, when you can't even give modern black Americans responsibility for the states of their communities.



No, I am accurately representing the term.

His comparing "white privilege" to "female privilege" just made it easier for me to do so.
It is a term that ties an unalterable characteristic to alterable circumstances. It's dangerous.

No, you deliberately twisted his argument to profer your strawman that he was alluding to racial superiority from a biological standpoint.

In the context of White / Black social dynamics: White priviledge just means that people who look White are treated differently , generally speaking more favorably, to people who look Black.

 

[Madmick]

We can disagree on how big or small of an effect it actually has, but on whether or not it exists?
If you are offended by the term it is because you don't understand it. Admittedly, it is a terribly worded term that hasn't done much good in trying to explain what it is trying to explain.

Let me ask you this, Is there no such thing as female privilege? Or male privilege? Do men and women not have some natural privileges and advantages over each other that they get for the sole reason of them being men and women?
Can a woman talk shit and throw a drink on a guy with relatively little fear of getting her ass kicked? Can a man do the same?
Can a man walk down a street at night in his boxers without fear of getting raped? Can a woman?

Having those natural advantages doesn't mean that every person in that group is living a problem free life and sipping on Moet while they get their toes sucked by LA 10s. It is just an acknowledgement that the playing field isn't entirely even.
It has nothing to do with thinking that the other is "depraved" or evil. It is not a demonization of men, women, or white people.

Did you just imply that whites hold a "natural" advantage over blacks?

 

[ithinktheymad]

Were slaves autonomous? It's hard to see how you could credit slaves with building America, when you can't even give modern black Americans responsibility for the states of their communities.

It is simply a matter of historical facts despite how inconvenient that is for your narrative. Profits from those cash crops(and not paying for labor) allowed us to accumulate the vast wealth required to build our country to what it is. We wouldn't have had the funds for acquisitions like the Louisiana Purchase or land grabs like the Mexican-American War without those resources. As for the railroads those are also public record being that many of the laborers were "leased" from captors by the railroad companies. There's also the fact that we didn't remit benefits to black veterans.

States of their communities that were problematic by design?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/the-racist-history-of-zoning-laws/amp
https://www.fastcompany.com/3061873...racial-inequality-and-what-we-can-do-about-it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...till-hurting-minorities-today/?outputType=amp

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I work in communication (I develop marketing and advertising strategies) and I have always had a chip on my shoulder when it comes to language use - not just in terms of what the communicator means, but more importantly, what the audience hears.
To be honest, I don't even like the term "feminist" because it automatically divides people into camps, based on something outside of their control, before any conversation can even start to take place. The reason I went into detail on your examples is because I wanted to highlight one major distinction between discussions of sex-equality and discussions of race-equality. I understood the gist you were trying to communicate, but the examples you used illustrated that you did not.
Equating the two is dangerous. Your examples, for instance, are not what I would call examples of privilege because they are based on real-life, factual differences in capabilities between the sexes - they come with drawbacks. No such stark differences exist between black, white or brown.

Distinctions between men and women can be divided into (A) biological reality; or (B) social construct (which may be informed/necessitated by biological reality, and may be temporary).
Distinctions between black and white are almost exclusively social and based in circumstance. As far as I can tell, they are not at all informed by biological reality, and so they should be temporary.

Point to specifics. For example, as a result of racist policies no longer actively in enforcement, do the railways still not pass through nearby certain poor predominantly black areas, making it harder for them to aspire beyond their circumstances? Push for expanded public transport into economically struggling districts - don't tell me "whites get trains".

Anyway, I don't think we disagree that strongly. I just go through phases of verbosity.

I get where you're coming from now, and see your point.
I don't have time to give a lengthy response at the moment, but if I remember, i'll think about it some more and respond later.
But yeah, maybe we don't disagree as strongly as I thought.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

It is simply a matter of historical facts despite how inconvenient that is for your narrative. Profits from those cash crops(and not paying for labor) allowed us to accumulate the vast wealth required to build our country to what it is. We wouldn't have had the funds for acquisitions like the Louisiana Purchase or land grabs like the Mexican-American War without those resources. As for the railroads those are also public record being that many of the laborers were "leased" from captors by the railroad companies. There's also the fact that we didn't remit benefits to black veterans.

The counterargument is the obvious one that leaning on slavery overcame shortfalls that may well have necessitated more rapid technological progress. Slavery may actually have stunted the growth of the United States from a utilitarian as well as ethical perspective.

Your argument depends on the assumption that slavery is efficient. That is not something of which I am convinced. And since we don't have an alternate history to compare actual history to, it seems a moot point to try and make.

My argument I guess depends on the assumptions that:
A) Slavery is not necessarily an efficient economic foundation; and,
B) Even if it were, the slaves themselves are unlikely to be autonomous actors in anything but their own emancipation.

States of their communities that were problematic by design?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/the-racist-history-of-zoning-laws/amp
https://www.fastcompany.com/3061873...racial-inequality-and-what-we-can-do-about-it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/redlining-was-banned-50-years-ago-its-still-hurting-minorities-today/?outputType=amp

Is any of this more oppressive or restrictive than slavery? If not, I am not sure how it proves that slaves were autonomous enough to be credited with building America, but modern black Americans are not autonomous enough to bear some responsibility for the state of their communities.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

No, there is no such thing as female or male privilege.

?

We males have to sign our freedom away to the government or else face felony charges.

 

[Limbo Pete]

It is simply a matter of historical facts despite how inconvenient that is for your narrative. Profits from those cash crops(and not paying for labor) allowed us to accumulate the vast wealth required to build our country to what it is. We wouldn't have had the funds for acquisitions like the Louisiana Purchase or land grabs like the Mexican-American War without those resources. As for the railroads those are also public record being that many of the laborers were "leased" from captors by the railroad companies. There's also the fact that we didn't remit benefits to black veterans.

States of their communities that were problematic by design?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/the-racist-history-of-zoning-laws/amp
https://www.fastcompany.com/3061873...racial-inequality-and-what-we-can-do-about-it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/redlining-was-banned-50-years-ago-its-still-hurting-minorities-today/?outputType=amp

I've been recommending Color of Law on here for a whiiiile now and it warms the heart to see someone else do so

 

[xcvbn]

One of the strangest OPs I've read in a while.


And I read TCK's stuff.

Yeah but how does it compare to Hollywood Nicky?

 

[BFoe]

Lol wut?
I can make a lot of things sound like other things by substituting random words that don’t mean anything close to the word that was there originally.