TJ camp situation not looking good

[Dart Feld]

Munoz got big.

He's gotten up there before though now that he's retired he probably will much closer to the left.

 

[elwani]

The problem is 80% of the money in these gyms are after school kids programs (basically daycare) and adult cardio kickboxing.

Being a pro fighter does not help at all with these two aspects yet it is what will keep you in business.

I've known multiple former fighters (two of which fought in the UFC) who have talked about opening gyms but the problem is they want to teach people to actually fight/train hard but that's not what the average person wants.

Advertise an MMA based class with hard wrestling and technical striking and you'll have maybe 5 people who will show up.

Advertise an after school kids program with free school pickup (shuttle bus) and advertise an adult Gi class with GUARANTEED stripe promotions for every 40 classes and BOOM, you go from 5 people in your gym to over 50 !!!!

For alot of fighters i've talked to, you basically have to sell your pride/soul to make money

I don't think you have to look at it as selling your pride/soul.

I think most people really do want to get into better shape. Most people do want to learn something authentic that they can use in a real situation. Most people respect UFC fighters or people who have had other competitive success.

However, most people also have 9-5 jobs. Most people also are not natural athletes nor do they have a body conditioned by years of training. And while most people have a love for the art, that love is naturally not as deep as someone who has suffered years of training and competition.

So it really is about designing a program for such people. This may involve designing a less strenuous program with only easy to execute techniques. This may involve doing things to help such people stay motivated, like having a very visually impressive facility, having pep talks from real fighters, and making people feel good that they are associated with a real fight team.

Don't think of it as selling your soul, think of it as helping people who have the right attitude and love for the sport but are just from a different walk of life.

 

[560ti]

I don't think you have to look at it as selling your pride/soul.

Working your ass off for a decade and then turning around and having to alter everything you've ever done to appease the lowest denominator is what is off putting to these coaches. Your basically selling an idea/image instead of the actual product.

For most fighters (at least the one's i've talked too and trained with), they look at it like that because you have to water it down so much and over half the business in most of these gyms is LITERALLY running an afterschool daycare.

Even with guaranteed stripe promotions which is extremely controversial and the definition of selling out, you'll still have only 1 out of every 15 people who sign up even make it to the first belt. The current generation maybe shows up to one practice a week and spends most of the time posting pictures on instagram/snapchat (your went from pro fighting to dealing with shit like this).

 

[Ken's Sideburns]

Yep, I imagine it's very hard to make it as a gym. Further complicating matters is the fact that I'm sure plenty of these fighters don't understand the business side of running a gym at all so they either have to learn that aspect really quickly or trust the right people. The fighters know how to train but there's a lot more than that to running a successful gym from a business aspect.

One thing I don't get is I see so many bjj academies every couple blocks nowadays ran by (insert random Brazilian name here) and they're able to make it. I started at BTT Long Beach 10 years ago and now two of the black belts that I came up with opened two branches of BTT in another city and they're doing fine. I recall Reign having a huge hype with a lot of fighters coming through and seeing crowded pics of kids classes etc. don't know what happened there

 

[IVnugzftwXX]

He's gotten up there before though now that he's retired he probably will much closer to the left.

I was going to post this pic. Pretty sure now that he's retired he will never look like that right side pic again...ever.

 

[Genisys]

Munoz got big.

I see he got on that Matt Serra diet. Eating good in retirement.

 

[elwani]

Working your ass off for a decade and then turning around and having to alter everything you've ever done to appease the lowest denominator is what is off putting to these coaches. Your basically selling an idea/image instead of the actual product.

For most fighters (at least the one's i've talked too and trained with), they look at it like that because you have to water it down so much. Even with guaranteed stripe promotions which is extremely controversial and the definition of selling out, you'll still have only 1 out of every 15 people who sign up even make it to the first belt. The current generation maybe shows up to one practice a week and spends most of the time posting pictures on instagram/snapchat (your went from pro fighting to dealing with shit like this). Your selling an idea/image

Believe me, I can easily see how someone who has suffered all their life to attain the peak of what they do can see it this way. But if they do, they're really missing out on an interesting challenge and an opportunity to do good.

People do things for all kinds of dumb reasons. But regardless of why they began doing it, I believe people know when they've learned something real and have made a real improvement. For whatever time the students spend with them, if people who actually have real knowledge can just make a small but real improvement in their students, they would have made the world a slightly better place.

The challenge is to understand what students' limitations are and working around them. The challenge is to keep them motivated through strenuous exercise and failure. Fighters pride themselves on overcoming challenges, this should be no different.

 

[elwani]

One thing I don't get is I see so many bjj academies every couple blocks nowadays ran by (insert random Brazilian name here) and they're able to make it. I started at BTT Long Beach 10 years ago and now two of the black belts that I came up with opened two branches of BTT in another city and they're doing fine. I recall Reign having a huge hype with a lot of fighters coming through and seeing crowded pics of kids classes etc. don't know what happened there

Maybe that's exactly it. Try to be too much like a real fight camp and you forget who your real customers are.

It could also be that Mark is simply not motivated to do this. The last time he got so fat, he said it was clinical depression due to not competing.

 

[beaucephus]

Maybe that's exactly it. Try to be too much like a real fight camp and you forget who your real customers are.

It could also be that Mark is simply not motivated to do this. The last time he got so fat, he said it was clinical depression due to not competing.

Reign (Marks gym) had a lot of obstacles standing in its way. He did a good job of running it and a ton of top level pros were always around the place. There was more to it than standard lack of business sense. His investor wasn't committed, there were 100 different gyms within 10 miles of the place, too much to pin it down on one thing, really.

 

[Pakman]

From what I can gather, the MusclePharm team in Colorado pretty much broke up and TJ's had to assemble a fight camp on the fly in California.

Elevation Fight Team moves out of MusclePharm training facility

Timestamped:


This means a lack of sparring partners and probably a lack of time with head coach Duane Ludwig who has to stay in Colorado. Compare this to Cody's situation where he has a full camp of people who's sparred with TJ and knows his game.

On a side note, sad to hear Mark Munoz had to close his Reign training center. It truly must be hard making money from gyms.

ludwig has flown out to CA to train with TJ

 

[560ti]

The challenge is to understand what students' limitations are and working around them. The challenge is to keep them motivated through strenuous exercise and failure. Fighters pride themselves on overcoming challenges, this should be no different.

The problem is MMA is generally viewed as underground and a fad. Trying to run a business around something that is basically a fad is annoying and unpredictable (your essentially selling and image/idea instead of an actual established product/service).

Trying to sell the flavor of the week is what all these profitable MMA based gyms are doing and for fighters, they view this as selling out. One month there pushing "TRX suspension classes". Another month its "Functional MMA training circuit classes". The next month there pushing "Cardio Kickboxing".......ect

You having to create gimmicks just to get people somewhat motivated to workout is the definition of selling out and is a reason why alot of MMA guys transition out of running gyms.

Mark Munoz (who was mentioned in this thread) is known for his wrestling. Most guys who join MMA gyms literally do not care if they don't learn how to do takedowns. Hell, I use to train at a Machado HQ gym and they couldn't even get people to show up for no-gi because they only trained Gi so they could get stripes/belts....... (Like I said earlier, the sport is generally viewed as a fad and isn't established). That's very off putting to a high level guy

 

[Orion]

The problem is MMA is generally viewed as underground and a fad. Trying to run a business around something that is basically a fad is annoying and unpredictable (your essentially selling and image/idea instead of an actual established product/service).

Trying to sell the flavor of the week is what all these profitable MMA based gyms are doing and for fighters, they view this as selling out. One month there pushing "TRX suspension classes". Another month its "Functional MMA training circuit classes". The next month there pushing "Cardio Kickboxing".......ect

You having to create gimmicks just to get people somewhat motivated to workout is the definition of selling out and is a reason why alot of MMA guys transition out of running gyms.

Mark Munoz (who was mentioned in this thread) is known for his wrestling. Most guys who join MMA gyms literally do not care if they don't learn how to do takedowns. Hell, I use to train at a Machado HQ gym and they couldn't even get people to show up for no-gi because they only trained Gi so they could get stripes/belts....... (Like I said earlier, the sport is generally viewed as a fad and isn't established). That's very off putting to a high level guy

I think it's the opposite, with MMA being viewed as being 'cool.'

I also think people just don't want to do hard grueling shit and want instant gratification / feedback that lets them know they are doing 'good' (stripes, promotions). No-gi, wrestling, boxing etc doesn't lend itself well to the general public because of that. There's no visual feedback to let people know they're getting better and you have to take your ass whooping for a long time before you really feel like you're 'getting it.'

It's easier to show up to some gi classes, lazily go through the techniques, get promoted just enough to keep going, and/or do some group classes hitting the bag to feel like you got some good work in (which is perfectly fine for people just wanting to burn some calories).

At the end of the day, trends and reward systems sell, hard work and learning how to fight doesn't. People want to do just enough to feel like they're 'training like a fighter' without actually doing so.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

TAM doesn't even have a head coach anymore and Buchholz is fired.

 

[elwani]

TAM doesn't even have a head coach anymore and Buchholz is fired.

My impression (from the Chris Holdsworth MMA Hour interview) is that Buchholz hasn't left the team at all. He just has his panties in a bunch because they decided to change some kind of coaching routine he designed and Holdsworth made it sound like there isn't a head coach at all but a head coaching team.

 

[BluntForceTrama]

Them spaniards should've never let those philippino kids in on the chicharrons....dayum son

 

[listrahtes]

Don't think of it as selling your soul, think of it as helping people who have the right attitude and love for the sport but are just from a different walk of life.

Sounds good but is far of. @560ti nailed the situation. Sure its whoring yourself out because you will give out underserved belt promotions, often have to make compromises in training were its not about learning but ego stroking.

Why do you think some TMA schools are often the biggest in town? Because they cater to "different attitudes"? No, its because they make false promises , dont critique where its necessary and promote everyone who is a member. Its often a dirty business and after some years the coaches start to get equal delusional.

There is a fine line you can walk as an instructor make it financially and do real teaching but its difficult. I have huge respect for anyone trying because its much easier to just scam people with MA.

Regarding Buchholz. If you know about TAMs coaching situation in recent years you would know why there is no more Buchholz head coach anymore and who is responsible for it.
Even the why is no secret just have to look.

Hint: Holdsworth is not a neutral bystander but in direct competition with Justin.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

My impression (from the Chris Holdsworth MMA Hour interview) is that Buchholz hasn't left the team at all. He just has his panties in a bunch because they decided to change some kind of coaching routine he designed and Holdsworth made it sound like there isn't a head coach at all but a head coaching team.

The question is what's the structure and routine like now.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Them spaniards should've never let those philippino kids in on the chicharrons....dayum son

My wife loves her some chicharrons.

 

[Willek]

The "shed" TJ trained at now looked terrible while TAM according to Faber moved to a place over the twice the size of the old TAM gym.

With that being said, who does Stipe train with? Better sparring partners/gym doesn't equal a win.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

He's gotten up there before though now that he's retired he probably will much closer to the left.

This is why I say Mark Hunt is not "just big boned" but fat af and lazy. Munoz on the left looks identical to Hunt and shows us that Hunt is more a fat middleweight than a heavyweight.