Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria(Kurds Reach Afrin Deal with Syrian Government Forces)

Kafir-kun said:
Via terrorism and separatism.


Erdogan and the AKP actually win the Kurdish vote pretty consistently. The Kurds basically have to choose between the AKP or the Turkish nationalists since the Kurdish nationalist party is like their equivalent of our Green or Libertarian parties; protest vote parties. He pushed out the military, which targeted Kurds for forced disappearances in the 90s, and even improved Kurdish rights in the country initially by opening up more space for the Kurdish language. The Syrian conflict has strained his relationship with the Kurdish electorate but I bet many still back him as the lesser of evils.
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ah he smarter than i thought
 
mcveteran81 said:
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Wednesday it was "crucial" for the United States to maintain an open-ended military and diplomatic presence in Syria to prevent Islamic State militants from regrouping, to thwart Iranian influence and ultimately to see the exit of President Bashar Assad.
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lol That's literally the position Hillary took as SoS under Barry.

America First! MAGA!
 
Kafir-kun said:
Via terrorism and separatism.


Erdogan and the AKP actually win the Kurdish vote pretty consistently. The Kurds basically have to choose between the AKP or the Turkish nationalists since the Kurdish nationalist party is like their equivalent of our Green or Libertarian parties; protest vote parties. He pushed out the military, which targeted Kurds for forced disappearances in the 90s, and even improved Kurdish rights in the country initially by opening up more space for the Kurdish language. The Syrian conflict has strained his relationship with the Kurdish electorate but I bet many still back him as the lesser of evils.
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But there was a falling out with the Kurds after the Syrian war, because Erdogan was tacitly helping ISIS, who were slaughtering Kurds/Yezidis. Then Turkey started to clamp down on Kurdish protesters and parties in Turkey.

End of the day, Erdogan is an ethnic Turkish nationalist. He is worried at Kurdish birthrates in Turkey. Being an Islamist (Erdogan) and having an ethnic tribal agenda are not mutually exclusive. For Erdogan Islam is useful weapon to advance ethnic Turkish interests.

https://stockholmcf.org/president-erdogan-insults-kurds-in-turkey-over-their-fertility-rate/

https://www.ft.com/content/8dd59f9c-1ed5-11e3-b80b-00144feab7de
 
Trotsky said:
@mcveteran81 briefly (as is possible), what's your normative opinion on this?
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Lol. Jeez thanks guy. :p

Normative opinion; Its just continuous American disruption agenda in defense of our homeland. (Supposedly) Russia is desperately trying to build its influence in the region. Russia and Iran also want to build an oil pipe line that runs through Syria.

If your the USA, you want several things to happen in the ME region.

1. The most control and influence (regardless if it is positive or intimidating to other foreign nations) in order to control the policies, economies, resources, and distribution to our maximized interests.
2. Constant disruption, chaos, and destabilization (to further hamper any process of foreign countries accomplishing their own agendas i.e China, Russia, Iran)
3. Offer up stabilization through *our* policies alone.

We will pacify Turkey by allowing them to occupy North Western Syria (Where Afrin is located) but we will (through any persuasive means possible) make Turkey see that our interests in the region are also protected. i.e We keep Manbij as our staging ground to further develop our base of operations to fulfill what Rex Tillerson stated about the America's new stance in the region.

There that's the boring short normative of it.
 
MicroBrew said:
But there was a falling out with the Kurds after the Syrian war, because Erdogan was tacitly helping ISIS, who were slaughtering Kurds/Yezidis. Then Turkey started to clamp down on Kurdish protesters and parties in Turkey.

End of the day, Erdogan is an ethnic Turkish nationalist. He is worried at Kurdish birthrates in Turkey. Being an Islamist (Erdogan) and having an ethnic tribal agenda are not mutually exclusive. For Erdogan Islam is useful weapon to advance ethnic Turkish interests.

https://stockholmcf.org/president-erdogan-insults-kurds-in-turkey-over-their-fertility-rate/

https://www.ft.com/content/8dd59f9c-1ed5-11e3-b80b-00144feab7de
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I don't think he's a Turkish nationalist, at the end of the day I think he's a self aggrandizing opportunist. He used Islamism to build an alliance with the Kurds to win elections but now the Kurdish issue is becoming a thorn in his side so he's rallying the Turks but at the end of the day I think he's out for himself. He's even marginalized his own party to concentrate power in his own hands. With Erdogan its about me, myself, and I.
 
mcveteran81 said:
Turkey's Erdogan vows to fight Kurdish forces as far as Iraq

Link Source 1 (BBC News) : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42831296

Turkey is prepared to take its fight against Kurdish forces in northern Syria as far east as Iraq, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said.

Speaking in Ankara, Mr Erdogan reiterated that his forces will move against Kurdish-controlled Manbij, which risks confrontation with the US.

US troops are based in the city, which was taken from the Islamic State group (IS) by Kurdish-led forces in 2016.

Turkey launched its operation against the Kurdish militia last weekend.

Backed by pro-Turkish Syrian rebels, Turkish forces attacked the Kurdish enclave of Afrin with the declared aim of driving out the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG).

'Clean up Manbij'
The Turkish president told a meeting of his AK party that he was prepared to expand so-called Operation Olive Branch "until there is no terrorist on our border leading to Iraq".

He said that after Afrin was cleared, "we will, as promised, clean up Manbij of terrorists".

_99760114_syria_control_jan2018_640_map-nc.png

Manbij lies 100 km (60 miles) east of Afrin in YPG-controlled territory. The mainly Arab city is separated from Afrin by an enclave captured from IS by pro-Turkish rebels in a previous Turkish-led operation in 2016.

The US has had soldiers in Manbij since March 2017, when it dissuaded Turkey from attempting to take the city and got the YPG to agree to withdraw east of the River Euphrates.

---------------------------------------

VERY IMPORTANT THREAD THAT SHOULD BE FOLLOWED AND IS CONSTANTLY UPDATED

LINK SOURCE SHERDOG : http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/p...key-shells-kurds-in-afrin-1-19.3691727/page-5

@HomerThompson hopefully this will help that thread gain more traction.
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Kafir-kun said:
I don't think he's a Turkish nationalist, at the end of the day I think he's a self aggrandizing opportunist. He used Islamism to build an alliance with the Kurds to win elections but now the Kurdish issue is becoming a thorn in his side so he's rallying the Turks but at the end of the day I think he's out for himself. He's even marginalized his own party to concentrate power in his own hands. With Erdogan its about me, myself, and I.
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Both. He wants to shape Turkey to his vision, which happens to be Turkish dominance. He dreams of getting back the influence and power of the Ottoman empire. He wants Turks in Europe to multiply and takeover. He is looking out for ethnic Turkish interests.

The Saudis overtly claim to be ardent Muslims, but everyone knows they are racist. Islam, and more specifically Salafism/Wahhabism, is how they intend to achieve Saudi/Arab ethnic interests. One can be both an Islamist and a ethnic nationalist.
 
MicroBrew said:
Both. He wants to shape Turkey to his vision, which happens to be Turkish dominance. He dreams of getting back the influence and power of the Ottoman empire. He wants Turks in Europe to multiply and takeover. He is looking out for ethnic Turkish interests.

The Saudis overtly claim to be ardent Muslims, but everyone knows they are racist. Islam, and more specifically Salafism/Wahhabism, is how they intend to achieve Saudi/Arab ethnic interests. One can be both an Islamist and a ethnic nationalist.
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He wants to establish Turkish hegemony through the use of Islamic solidarity, in terms of foreign policy that's far more important to him than Turkish nationalism and before the Kurdish question flared up it was also his main appeal in Turkey. He's more of an Islamist than a Turkish nationalist as evidenced by the fact that he rose up through the Islamist circles and challenged the militant Turkish nationalists, pushing them out from prominence, but I do think he's just a self aggrandizing authoritarian.
 
MicroBrew said:
Both. He wants to shape Turkey to his vision, which happens to be Turkish dominance. He dreams of getting back the influence and power of the Ottoman empire. He wants Turks in Europe to multiply and takeover. He is looking out for ethnic Turkish interests.

The Saudis overtly claim to be ardent Muslims, but everyone knows they are racist. Islam, and more specifically Salafism/Wahhabism, is how they intend to achieve Saudi/Arab ethnic interests. One can be both an Islamist and a ethnic nationalist.
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Other than anti black racism muslims cannot logically use koran to support any race nationalist or ethno nationalist agenda. Only Arabs can make that argument and Gulf Arabs the original muslim population have that strongest argument oh and Iraqis near Kuwait. Islam is a pretty universal religion outside of that. It always made me laugh that some muslims like Turks or Talibán do that they should know there place is always behind the Arab muslim world. But some white christians do the same with christianity and claim they are the chose people ignoring that middle eastern people invented all 3 those religions and exported them to Europe.
 
this conflict shows that nato is only good as long as it serves us interests
i mean, the us supports separatists over its own nato ally knowing that they are presenting great threat to them
its a fvcked situation up for sure
 
KILL KILL said:
They've been an ally of ours for some time. We have a good relationship with them. It would look awful internationally if we turned our back on them.
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GB is an ally. The Kurds are a tool. Big Difference.

Like I said, if it doesn't concern oil, fuck 'em.
 
mcveteran81 said:
Thank you to whoever merged. I was hoping for that.

@HomerThompson this thread should see more activity.
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I think some posters never look at the sticky activity when they come into a sub forum. I tried doing a sticky for a big current news event like a shooting before and you got nonstop new threads about it cause they didn't see it above. Kinda hard to judge but that's one example. I do think these will catch on better in time. We haven't had a term with someone rotating threads on current events through here yet so it should help.
 
Lead said:
I think some posters never look at the sticky activity when they come into a sub forum. I tried doing a sticky for a big current news event like a shooting before and you got nonstop new threads about it cause they didn't see it above. Kinda hard to judge but that's one example. I do think these will catch on better in time. We haven't had a term with someone rotating threads on current events through here yet so it should help.
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Yeah, I actually don't think the sticky helps because most ignore them.
 
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