Crime Tyre Nichols video to be released soon. 5 Memphis cops fired and charged with murder for his death

[French Canadian]

If problems with "specific cops" that keeps happening over and over, then there is a problem with cops as a whole.

I don't know how any US citizen can be upset with more accountability and checks and balance for law enforcement.

The ''few bad apples'' works well with the police I think, it's just that people forget to quote the whole thing: ''A few bad apples spoils the bunch''.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Because Monday sunrise means you strand commuting workers in downtown areas and also snark traffic response. Not to mention you will have less staffing on a Monday vs weekends. You will also be giving people all day to respond, as opposed to giving then a few hours before bedtime.

Do you seriously think the police chief, who is at the risk of losing their job, is trying to cause any further damage?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Monday is more dangerous.

No, it isn't.

It means you have everyone trying to get to and fro while navigating a hypothetical protest or unrest.

Do you think rioters are in hibernation? Suddenly awake when cops kill someone unjustifiably?

Rioters would have been typical people going to work & school, but can't riot because they have priorities throughout the week. But on Friday? They have ALL weekend to cause chaos.

You realize the police dept is the ones who wanted it released Friday night right?

The Police Department building?
Or did all cops of the police department voted?

Or was it the police chief, who serves at the discretion of the Mayor of Memphis?

I guarantee you more instances of abuse frl. Scorpion will surface. The unit is doa going forward. There is no other way to describe not 1, not 2, but 5 sociopaths working together as anything but a systemic failure. That doesn't happen randomly.

Being a policeman is one of the most unpredictable careers possible, and with nearly a third of a million people doing the job there's bound to be random failures at somewhere and sometime throughout the nation.

 

[surgeyou1]

There's 325,000 cops in the entire country.
What percentage of them are bad?
How about the ones that do their jobs in practical war zones? Get wound up after years on the job and are about to crack?
Its impossible to determine which ones are going to crack until they crack.



More non-specific key words that's going to fix everything...

'Accountability.'
'Checks and balances.'

That only effects one side of the war on crime, the good guys that are supposed to help avoid chaos. Meanwhile, the other side is being catered to with political movements to lower prison sentences.

Meanwhile, the arsonist that set fire to an NYPD patrol car is convicted and sentenced... to 1 year in prison.

https://www.aol.com/news/attorney-helped-firebomb-nypd-car-142139225.html

Higher/lower criminal sentences has absolutely nothing to do with police reform, which is the issue at hand.

And it's not as simple as "good cops" and "bad cops". I don't think these 5 officers woke up and decided "hey we should beat someone to death today". Many officers are still not properly trained in de-escalating situations. Violence becomes a primary weapon than a last resort. And they obviously feel like they could get away with anything because of their badge and the strength of the police unions

To pretend that nothing can be done and only "good cops" would be punished by reform and increased accountability is nonsense. We can't keep turning a blind eye to this.

 

[avenue94]

No, it isn't.

You realize the the Floyd video became public on a week day? There's not really any evidence that sitting on a inflammatory video, hoping it doesn't leak, just so you can release it on a MOnday is going to turn out better.

The Police Department building?
Or did all cops of the police department voted?

Or was it the police chief, who serves at the discretion of the Mayor of Memphis?

Since when do cops vote on executive decisions like this? Use your noggin here.

Do you think rioters are in hibernation? Suddenly awake when cops kill someone unjustifiably?

Rioters would have been typical people going to work & school, but can't riot because they have priorities throughout the week. But on Friday? They have ALL weekend to cause chaos.

It's going to be a big story in a few days still. There's no reason to sit on it. The crowds that protest versus the ones that riot are not the same population. I like how you think that people who want to destroy property and cause mayhem would prefer to do it during their leisure time, as opposed to just skipping work or school that day.

 

[avenue94]

Being a policeman is one of the most unpredictable careers possible, and with nearly a third of a million people doing the job there's bound to be random failures at somewhere and sometime throughout the nation.

How many instances can you name where 5 people in a distinct profession or unit decided they were going to torture and murder someone? The rate of an asshat who would do that is incredibly low. The fact that you have 5 at the same time working together is simply not random distribution. It's a systemic failure.

 

[Roaming East]

There's 325,000 cops in the entire country.
What percentage of them are bad?
How about the ones that do their jobs in practical war zones? Get wound up after years on the job and are about to crack?
Its impossible to determine which ones are going to crack until they crack.

Bro, if the US was under enemy occupation, and we summed up every arrest as an operation, you understand that those 325,000 cops would have committed more human rights violations in a year than the US military did in Iraq in like a decade right?
We arent even out of January and you got this crap, the Chatanooga shooting (thats a fun one. completely video taped of the cops gunning some dude up they just woke up and fabricating an elaborate cover story)
you actually CAN tell which ones are 'about to crack'. go hang out in the military thread up top. The problem with police is there is no accountability because unlike soldiers in actual warzones, Police are protected by multiple layers of laws and bureaucracy. Sociopathic soldiers endanger missions and will get soldiers killed. there is a very strong incentive to identify and remove guys like that. Police 'close ranks' around their bad apples and its the whistle blowers, not the 'on the edgers' that end up getting run out.

Soldiers dont get to pull the 'i was following orders, guidelines, training or what have you line. The UCMJ is rigidly designed to arbitrate your conduct, not justify it. A soldier doesnt get to 'not know' what the LOAC is, whereas cops are not liable for not knowing the law. Hell, even civilians cant pull the 'i didnt know that was a law' excuse but cops CAN. And if some soldier decides to gun down a civilian in cold blood, he gets run through the wringer, given a BCD and his life is toast. He doesnt get a mulligan and a new job the next post over. So dont compare the two.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Higher/lower criminal sentences has absolutely nothing to do with police reform, which is the issue at hand.

Yes, it does. Shorter sentences equals more criminals out on the streets for our stressed police departments to deal with, and more innocent victims.

And it's not as simple as "good cops" and "bad cops". I don't think these 5 officers woke up and decided "hey we should beat someone to death today"

'Cops that are about to crack' as I previously stated.

Many officers are still not properly trained in de-escalating situations.

Everyone I've heard says this never go into detail. HOW are they not properly trained to de-escalate situations?

And why isn't blame for escalating situations NEVER put on the perp? Simply obeying orders given by the policemen lowers their chances of dying by 99.999%

Violence becomes a primary weapon than a last resort. And they obviously feel like they could get away with anything because of their badge and the strength of the police unions

Well, recent events have proven that notion to be incorrect.

And don't pretend to know what they 'feel.'

To pretend that nothing can be done and only "good cops" would be punished by reform and increased accountability is nonsense. We can't keep turning a blind eye to this.

Yes we can.

When you keep in mind there's 325,000 cops and these types of situations happen a few times a year, that makes them remarkably rare.

Stop blaming all cops for the mistakes of the few, and allow cops to do their damn jobs.

 

[surgeyou1]

Yes we can.

Lol that's all there is to it then. I don't think you would feel the same way if that was your brother/son/father being beaten to death on video. But people like you don't have any real perspective or empathy, just regurgitate every mainstream conservative talking point.

Back the Blue. No matter how many civilians they kill or abuse.

 

[Rholk]

Am I missing something here?
I assume the officers are aware they're wearing cameras that are recording.
Even if the victim had survived, I assume he would have filed a complaint.
How were the officers expecting to get through an investigation?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

You realize the the Floyd video became public on a week day?

During the fucking pandemic while everything was shut down and people were looking for an excuse to get the fuck out of their apartment and homes. Don't pretend it was 'just a regular weekday.'

There's not really any evidence that sitting on a inflammatory video, hoping it doesn't leak, just so you can release it on a MOnday is going to turn out better

Its common sense. People typically have commitments on weekdays. Work & School. The numbers of rioters would be significantly lessened if the video wasn't released on the portion of the week they have 60 hours to do whatever the hell they want.

Since when do cops vote on executive decisions like this? Use your noggin here.

No, I'm pointing out your 'The Police Department Decided' is bullshit when its clear the decision was made by one person. The police chief.

It's going to be a big story in a few days still. There's no reason to sit on it. The crowds that protest versus the ones that riot are not the same population. I like how you think that people who want to destroy property and cause mayhem would prefer to do it during their leisure time, as opposed to just skipping work or school that day.

Yeah, it'd still be big on Friday if it was released on Monday, but the outrage would be severely lessened, which ya'd think that'd be the biggest priority of the police chief, right?

Practically no one hears about something bad that happened on Monday, goes to work/school throughout the week, and then goes rioting on Friday because they were still pissed off about what they heard about 5 days previously. And the ones that do would be easily dealt with by the cops. Because 100 rioters are much easier to deal with than 1000.

Actually scratch that, 100 rioters wouldn't actually be a riot because they'd realize there's not enough of them and they'd quickly be arrested.

 

[avenue94]

Am I missing something here?
I assume the officers are aware they're wearing cameras that are recording.
Even if the victim had survived, I assume he would have filed a complaint.
How were the officers expecting to get through an investigation?

"I felt him going for my gun." They literally say that several times when they're shooting the shit after. And also just sheer stupidity. Never underestimate baselines stupidity, especially when the people in question have been told they're special and the best of the best.

 

[avenue94]

During the fucking pandemic while everything was shut down and people were looking for an excuse to get the fuck out of their apartment and homes. Don't pretend it was 'just a regular weekday.'

Riots came later. It didn't happen straight away.

Its common sense. People typically have commitments on weekdays. Work & School. The numbers of rioters would be significantly lessened if the video wasn't released on the portion of the week they have 60 hours to do whatever the hell they want.

It's also common sense that beating a guy to death in public and on camera is a terrible idea. Yet here we are. Again, what's the evidence that releasing the video Monday morning or evening would go better?

No, I'm pointing out your 'The Police Department Decided' is bullshit when its clear the decision was made by one person. The police chief.

And? It's pretty clear when I say police dept I mean it's leaders. Just like when I say "the white house did x", we assume we mean the president and his advisors, not the hired help.

Yeah, it'd still be big on Friday if it was released on Monday, but the outrage would be severely lessened

Other way around. Passions and discontent build up over the week. You'll notice that protests almost always come before Riots. There's no evidence to suggest releasing the video on a weekday would magically make things better

In fact, why do you think the video was released on a Friday night since you seem to think it's motivated to do damage?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Lol that's all there is to it then. I don't think you would feel the same way if that was your brother/son/father being beaten to death on video.

Oh the Nancy Grace debate technique.

Attorney -"I don't think there's enough here to convict the defendant of rape."
Nancy Grace - "Mr.Attorney would you say the same if your mother was raped?"

Spare us your emotional argument bullshit.

But people like you don't have any real perspective or empathy, just regurgitate every mainstream conservative talking point.

Back the Blue. No matter how many civilians they kill or abuse.

No, I don't get caught up in reactionary politics that were bad ideas before something bad happening and suddenly became good because of the emotional projections they would have stopped the bad thing from happening.

In fact you and @avenue94 haven't said anything specific about what policies you believe would have prevented this from happening.

 

[nhbbear]

I get where you're comingnn from given your position, but like I've said multiple time, the fact that 5 absolute pieces of shit happened to end up together really hints at there being systemic failures. No amount of individual good behavior can overcome systemic failures of that scale.

I thought of another possible reason why five showed up. It was a special unit that was probably running 3 and 2 officer units. Again, that’s a guess. However, these guys are crooked af, so anything is possible

 

[avenue94]

I thought of another possible reason why five showed up. It was a special unit that was probably running 3 and 2 officer units. Again, that’s a guess. However, these guys are crooked af, so anything is possible

Sure. But again that begs the question, how did 5 improbably sociopathic indivials end up together? Like 1 or 2, ok, random chance. But 5? Thats clearly a larger problem.

Stats isn't the real world, but as a rough example. let's say there's only a 1 percent chance a cop in that police department is as much a psycho as one of the guys from the night. 0.01 to the 5th power is insane odds.

 

[avenue94]

Oh the Nancy Grace debate technique.

Attorney -"I don't think there's enough here to convict the defendant of rape."
Nancy Grace - "Mr.Attorney would you say the same if your mother was raped?"

Spare us your emotional argument bullshit.



No, I don't get caught up in reactionary politics that were bad ideas before something bad happening and suddenly became good because of the emotional projections they would have stopped the bad thing from happening.

In fact you and @avenue94 haven't said anything specific about what policies you believe would have prevented this from happening.

Better recruiting. Eliminating perverse incentives when possible when it comes to promotion. A strong community oversight commission. Making not reporting police misconduct of fellow officers a career ender. Making perjury while a cop a career ender and mandatory jail time. Don't make the metrics of whether your elite unit is successful or not be how many arrests and seizures.

Need I go on on the myriad of failings that lead to an incident as outrageous as this?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Riots came later. It didn't happen straight away.

Actually no, they were pretty immediate.

It's also common sense that beating a guy to death in public and on camera is a terrible idea. Yet here we are. Again, what's the evidence that releasing the video Monday morning or evening would go better?

This is not a response to what I posted, this is a deflection because you can't respond what I posted.

And? It's pretty clear when I say police dept I mean it's leaders. Just like when I say "the white house did x", we assume we mean the president and his advisors, not the hired help.

But there's dozens of people in the white house that make huge decisions, not just the president. In this case it was just one person in the police department that could have made that decision, so just say she made the decision.

Other way around. Passions and discontent build up over the week. You'll notice that protests almost always come before Riots.

Yeah, the day of.
Protests turn into riots very quickly after the inciting headlines.
There's never been 4+ days of peaceful protests that suddenly blow into violent riots. Period.

There's no evidence to suggest releasing the video on a weekday would magically make things better.

You keep repeating this, and its not more convincing the more you repeat it, and it sounds like you're just attempting to convince yourself.

In fact, why do you think the video was released on a Friday night since you seem to think it's motivated to do damage?

If I was interested in maximum chaos after an inciting incident, I'd want the footage to be released on a Friday night. Not a Monday.


Honest question - Why are you guys arguing on this? If you think it wouldn't matter if it was released on Friday or Monday, and the result would be the same ya'd be like. "Yeah, just release it on Monday then. Doesn't matter."

 

[avenue94]

Actually no, they were pretty immediate.



This is not a response to what I posted, this is a deflection because you can't respond what I posted.


But there's dozens of people in the white house that make huge decisions, not just the president. In this case it was just one person in the police department that could have made that decision, so just say she made the decision.

Yeah, the day of.
Protests turn into riots very quickly after the inciting headlines.
There's never been 4+ days of peaceful protests that suddenly blow into violent riots. Period.



You keep repeating this, and its not more convincing the more you repeat it, and it sounds like you're just attempting to convince yourself.



If I was interested in maximum chaos after an inciting incident, I'd want the footage to be released on a Friday night. Not a Monday.


Honest question - Why are you guys arguing on this? If you think it wouldn't matter if it was released on Friday or Monday, and the result would be the same ya'd be like. "Yeah, just release it on Monday then. Doesn't matter."

1.No, mass civil unrest was not imemdaite. Check your dates.
2. Still waiting for the evidence of a Monday release being better since we have evidence of a a weekday release clearly not working.
3. Who want so cause maximum chaos and why? Are you telling me the mayor is trying to commit political suicide?

 

[nhbbear]

Why don’t the police police themselves knowing that the bad make them all look bad and make the job more difficult and dangerous?

I reported a fellow officer for abuse one time. It was the only time in my career where I witnessed it. I was working with a guy that I was pretty sure was crooked and we saw a guy that had a warrant out for his arrest. It was for a non violent misdemeanor. I was driving and it took me a second to get out while he jumped out and ran up on the dude from behind, shoving his head into a store window, busting up his forehead a bit. I shoved him and told him to back off and I cuffed the guy. We went back to hq and I went straight to the lieutenant and reported it. The Lt came back and talked to the guy who denied everything and refused to file a complaint. I got zero blowback because the officer was a piece of shit. Years later, he started dating a stripper and she got caught in his personal vehicle with a bunch of out of town drug dealers. His drug test kit(he was a k9 officer at this point and they use packs of drugs to train the dogs) went missing and other shady things started to surface. He claimed he must have left the cruiser unlocked. He had the dog removed from him. Then he was fired for sexually harassing a store clerk, getting a restraining order filed against him and then violating it by contacting her in violation of the order.

There was one other time I sort of witnessed abuse. I heard it but didn’t see it. There were warrants for a guy and he ran and everyone was chasing him. An officer called out with him and as we were coming around the corner, I heard the officer yelling “stop resisting” and “don’t you bite me” and then heard punches being thrown and the guy screaming that he wasn’t resisting. Then the officer yelled “stop biting me” and more strikes being thrown. It was pitch black out, but the guy kept screaming in between strikes. By the time we got there, he was handcuffed and I was pretty sure he was handcuffed when the officer was hitting him. Not the same officer btw. In my whole career, there were about five officers I was pretty sure were dirty and 3 got fired while the other two retired. This was out of several hundred. Even one is too many. My opinion as to why officers don’t police themselves is a. Either the cops that know abouth it or witness it are also dirty or b. Officers suspect, but don’t actually witness the abuse-only suspect it because dirty officers don’t do their dirt around good cops. Like I said, I only witnessed it once for sure. As an officer, you don’t want to act on suspicions unless you witness it directly. While officers talk about the dirty officers, it is just talk and few actually witness it. I have handed out complaint forms on other officers but they were either lies or no proof to substantiate the complaints.

And you are completely right about dirty cops making things both more difficult and more dangerous for good officers. Good cops absolutely hate dirty cops but in my experience, you might suspect an officer of being dirty but can’t prove it.