UFN 122 - Silva vs Gastelum - China

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Can you provide some tape of him stuffing some LEGIT takedowns since then?

LW Ivan Jorge is his best win
Not really but I can't find tape of him on his back either. The guy is an elite striker, everyone he fights gets destroyed. Garcia is not a high level wrestler and he fades after the 1st round.

Salikhov has been an MMA pro for 6 years now and he entered MMA as a high level striker, only logical to assume he's been improving the rest of his game since he started. He knows what he's doing, he's not a rookie, I'm really not that worried about Garcia's wrestling threat.

I wouldn't put too much stock into what you saw from Salikhov in a fight from over 4 years ago, in what was his 4th MMA fight.

Garcia is going to lose unless he can totally blanket Salikhov and I doubt he can do it. Garcia may have early success with his grappling but he fades and I doubt he has the cardio to implement the gameplan he needs to use. Salikhov is so dangerous and Garcia is there to be hit, Garcia is at a big disadvantage standing, he's going to struggle with the range.

UFC are trying to set Salikhov up with a win in China where he has fought a lot of his fights.
 
Not really but I can't find tape of him on his back either. The guy is an elite striker, everyone he fights gets destroyed. Garcia is not a high level wrestler and he fades after the 1st round.

Salikhov has been an MMA pro for 6 years now and he entered MMA as a high level striker, only logical to assume he's been improving the rest of his game since he started. He knows what he's doing, he's not a rookie, I'm really not that worried about Garcia's wrestling threat.

I wouldn't put too much stock into what you saw from Salikhov in a fight from over 4 years ago, in what was his 4th MMA fight.

Garcia is going to lose unless he can totally blanket Salikhov and I doubt he can do it. Garcia may have early success with his grappling but he fades and I doubt he has the cardio to implement the gameplan he needs to use. Salikhov is so dangerous and Garcia is there to be hit, Garcia is at a big disadvantage standing, he's going to struggle with the range.

UFC are trying to set Salikhov up with a win in China where he has fought a lot of his fights.

How in the world can you say all that when the guys best wins are 2 shitty LWs? He's been fighting guys that he should look like a destroyer against.

How do you know he's been fine tuning his wrestling also. You have absolutely anything to support that?

Garcia sucks. But he's FAR FAR FAR more dangerous to a guy like Muslim than a blown up mediocre LW and a completely shot LW

Garcia has actually shown he can implement a wrestle heavy game for 3 rounds

Plus he's -170 going against by far his best opponent in his UFC debut
 
How in the world can you say all that when the guys best wins are 2 shitty LWs? He's been fighting guys that he should look like a destroyer against.

How do you know he's been fine tuning his wrestling also. You have absolutely anything to support that?

Garcia sucks. But he's FAR FAR FAR more dangerous to a guy like Muslim than a blown up mediocre LW and a completely shot LW

Garcia has actually shown he can implement a wrestle heavy game for 3 rounds

Plus he's -170 going against by far his best opponent in his UFC debut
Salikhov's striking is really something to behold and he will have a big advantage in this fight.

Garcia wrestled Swick for 3 rounds but that has easy because Swick offered little resistance. Talk about Salikhov fighting weak competition, look at Garcia's UFC wins.

Salikhov is a good athlete and he's going to bring a pace Garcia won't like. Garcia is going to turn into a panic wrestler most likely, he's going to be lost on the feet.

I can understand not wanting to bet Salikhov because of the unknowns but there are better dogs than Garcia IMO,
 
I get the Muslim hesitation but you can only beat who's in front of you and Muslim has been wrecking fools in round one. Exactly what you would expect of a prospect. He's only been out of round one once tho, albeit he did win that decision.
 
Garcia’s cardio has been improving massively....he used to always gas midway through a fight but did not gas at any point during the Means fight (which was a pretty high paced fight with Means always pressuring and keeping range)

There’s a lot of unknown with Salikhov but with Garcia you know what you’re getting...strong wrestling, huge power, and is consistently improving his weak points (full time at Tristar now)

I can’t see Salikhov being able to keep range and pick away at Garcia while defending all takedowns (which is the best way to beat him)

Salikhov could come in, stay in the pocket and just starch him but that would be awfully surprising... I feel there’s some good value on Garcia here
 
Garcia’s cardio has been improving massively....he used to always gas midway through a fight but did not gas at any point during the Means fight (which was a pretty high paced fight with Means always pressuring and keeping range)

There’s a lot of unknown with Salikhov but with Garcia you know what you’re getting...strong wrestling, huge power, and is consistently improving his weak points (full time at Tristar now)

I can’t see Salikhov being able to keep range and pick away at Garcia while defending all takedowns (which is the best way to beat him)

Salikhov could come in, stay in the pocket and just starch him but that would be awfully surprising... I feel there’s some good value on Garcia here

The Means fight wasn't high paced. Means did not push a high pace as he worried about Garcia's power and power double. Clearly tho if there is no evidence of Salikhov's tdd or bottom game it's a concern.
 
I think Salikhov/Garcia is a dog or pass situation. We don't know a lot about Salikhov's TDD and ground game whilst Garcia is a pretty solid WW in his own right. Sure Garcia is limited but he still has wins in UFC and has a game that can cause Salikhov a lot of problems.
 
I get the Muslim hesitation but you can only beat who's in front of you and Muslim has been wrecking fools in round one. Exactly what you would expect of a prospect. He's only been out of round one once tho, albeit he did win that decision.
If you are against Muslim you will face jihad.
 
This card is ripe for double entendres
 
yes for sure Leech's TDD is not very good.. but even though i thought Ottow won all his ufc fights pretty clearly his style is just not very judge friendly and with the fight being in Leech's backyard it makes it scary to bet Ottow

i will take a small stab on Ottow DEC +285 i think

I just watched Ottow vs Moraes and I don't think Ottow won that fight.

First round Moraes obviously won.
Second round was close but Moraes landed more power shots. Hard to score.
Third round I thought was clearly Moraes. Zak threw more and was more diverse with kicks but kept eating counters coming in. The biggest moment in the round when was Moraes stumbled Zak with a counter to a naked kick, and Moraes ended up on top. Moraes obviously had a weird striking style which is completely unaesthetically pleasing, but if you count the shots that actually looked like it had an effect, Moraes was landing them at like 2-1 in the third.

I'm still watching tape here, but Ottow seems like a less strong and more hittable version of Bobby Nash. If a BJJ guy with some striking training can catch Ottow with counters to his naked kicks and catch him coming in with the widest looping punches ever, then I have a hard time seeing how Leech can't do the same who has faster hands, straighter punches, and better timing. Ottow also doesn't have the type of power to bother Li at all.
 
I just watched Ottow vs Moraes and I don't think Ottow won that fight.

First round Moraes obviously won.
Second round was close but Moraes landed more power shots. Hard to score.
Third round I thought was clearly Moraes. Zak threw more and was more diverse with kicks but kept eating counters coming in. The biggest moment in the round when was Moraes stumbled Zak with a counter to a naked kick, and Moraes ended up on top. Moraes obviously had a weird striking style which is completely unaesthetically pleasing, but if you count the shots that actually looked like it had an effect, Moraes was landing them at like 2-1 in the third.

I'm still watching tape here, but Ottow seems like a less strong and more hittable version of Bobby Nash. If a BJJ guy with some striking training can catch Ottow with counters to his naked kicks and catch him coming in with the widest looping punches ever, then I have a hard time seeing how Leech can't do the same who has faster hands, straighter punches, and better timing. Ottow also doesn't have the type of power to bother Li at all.
Just rewatched Ottows 3 ufc fights, he barely moves his head at all, especially not when he's throwing punches or naked legkicks. Jingliangs power and handspeed will be a problem for him
 
Good points man..what do you think bisping would have to get to odds wise for you to consider him having value and making a bet on him?

Good question. +300 would probably force my hand for a small bet.

I was just looking more closely and Bisping hasn't landed a takedown since the Stann fight in 2012. He's 0-4 on takedown attempts in that 11 fight span. I really think he needs to at least present the threat of the takedown here. That's been Gastelum's cryponite and if he gets comfortable boxing, Bisping is going to have a lot of trouble IMO.

I am keeping an eye on NOT Gastelum ITD. It hit +180 last night, and there is some value there I think. Sure, Gas could spark him, but that price seems out of line to me.
 
Good question. +300 would probably force my hand for a small bet.

I was just looking more closely and Bisping hasn't landed a takedown since the Stann fight in 2012. He's 0-4 on takedown attempts in that 11 fight span. I really think he needs to at least present the threat of the takedown here. That's been Gastelum's cryponite and if he gets comfortable boxing, Bisping is going to have a lot of trouble IMO.

I am keeping an eye on NOT Gastelum ITD. It hit +180 last night, and there is some value there I think. Sure, Gas could spark him, but that price seems out of line to me.


I really don't see Bisping having any success with takedowns at all. If anybody scores a takedown I think it'll be Gastellum, but I expect them to stay upright for as long as it lasts.
 
Just rewatched Ottows 3 ufc fights, he barely moves his head at all, especially not when he's throwing punches or naked legkicks. Jingliangs power and handspeed will be a problem for him

Bang on and as someone said earlier Moraes was landing his windmills at will and he rocked Ottow a couple of times. Li doesn't move his head either but he's got a chin and Ottow doesn't seem to carry much power. I do like Ottow's style but there's no impact to his shots and a lot of his shots are leg kicks. Judges will defo go with the power shots to the face of Li.
 
Alright just finished watching tape on Ottow and Li and here's my writeup:

Zak Ottow has been fighting professionally since 2012, but somehow looks older than his 30 years. Maybe it's the years spent playing college football, or the years spent juggling fighting in regionals while running his own gym and managing a fight promotion. Without a big win against a quality opponent, he didn't seem like a fighter that would make it to the UFC any time soon.


Still, Ottow got his opportunity to fight in the big show as a late notice replacement for Bobby Green over a year ago to face Josh Burkman. Although originally a LW bout for Burkman, the fight was held at WW. Even though it was 2 weeks notice for Ottow, he was already preparing for a fight for the next weekend in Legacy FC. Though Ottow came away with the win, it was a competitive fight where a takedown or combo landed could've swayed a round in either's favor. It was also a fight against a LW fighter in Burkman who would go on to lose his next two fights in the first round to bring his record over the last 7 fights to 1-6.


Always game, Ottow accepted a fight in Brazil against BJJ world champion Sergio Moraes. Despite being pretty close to a grappling specialist, Moraes chose to strike with Ottow in the last two rounds, and won the decision with really ugly looping counter punches that would come at odd angles and tag Ottow coming in. In the third round, Moraes landed maybe the most significant blow of the match, timing a naked leg kick and stumbling Ottow with a straight right. Earlier, a naked leg kick led to Ottow being taken down and laid upon for the whole first round.


In his 3rd fight, Ottow won a comfortable decision against Kuichi Kunimoto, landing some compact straight punches and kicks to control the standup exchanges. Ottow won the 2nd round with his grappling, but was put on his back in the beginning of the 3rd and didn't get up until a few seconds before the end of the match.


Though winning 2 out of 3 of his UFC fights, it seems as if Ottow has barely scraped by in the big leagues. He is a technically sound striker who doesn't get too wild, but lacks power to seriously threaten any of his opponents (he has 1 TKO victory in his last 15 fights and that was against an undersized opponent). His lack of head movement and inability to slip out of the pocket after throwing his single or at most doubled up shots means he is hittable and can be countered. He appears to be a competent grappler but doesn't appear to be very strong and can be controlled for long periods of time on his back.


All of the above weaknesses will play into the strengths of Li Jingliang. Li is 5-2 in the UFC, but has faced mostly weak UFC competition with the exception of Nordine Taleb (who most fans believe he beat), and a very game Frank Camacho (although Camacho's quality wasn't well known before the fight). Still, what we've seen from Li so far indicates that he'll be a tough matchup for Ottow.


In the grappling department, Li has shown good strength in the clinch, solid defensive wrestling, and powerful ground strikes. Though he earned his nickname "the Leech" by being a tenacious grinder, in his last few fights, he's turned into and powerful striker in his last few fights. Though he has shown good head movement, and even some flashes of brilliance with slip counters, he's still hittable at times, eating otherwise fight ending power shots from Bobby Nash and Frank Camacho. Luckily his chin is ironclad and has held up.


Offensively, Li has shown pretty nice timing and counters. Against a naked leg kick by Nash, he timed a strong right straight right down the pipe. This same right hand would later land flush on Nash's chin and eventually lead to a KO. In the Camacho fight, he would land it several times from distance. He can get a bit creative at times, stepping in with uppercuts to split the guard of his opponents.


It's really hard to see where Ottow has an advantage in this fight. Ottow doesn't have the power to scare Li off, nor does he put together enough strikes in combination (as Li's head movement is usually good enough to slip the first couple of strikes, but can be caught by a 3rd or 4th). If the looping wide punches of Moraes can land against a stationary Ottow, the much more powerful, straighter, and better-timed punches of Li should catch Ottow more often and with more of an impact. If Moraes can time Ottow's naked kicks for takedowns and counters, than Li can do the same as well.


Thinking about this matchup, Ottow seems like the perfect opponent for Li to show off his skills without really being threatened. Given that the fight will be in Shanghai, one might think that the favorable matchup is intentional given the large and untapped Chinese market. Li is the favorite sitting at -170 but given the matchup and the home soil advantage, I think there may still be some value there.
 
Jesus Christ that was much longer than I thought it'd be. Pretty embarrassing actually.
 
Alright just finished watching tape on Ottow and Li and here's my writeup:

Zak Ottow has been fighting professionally since 2012, but somehow looks older than his 30 years. Maybe it's the years spent playing college football, or the years spent juggling fighting in regionals while running his own gym and managing a fight promotion. Without a big win against a quality opponent, he didn't seem like a fighter that would make it to the UFC any time soon.


Still, Ottow got his opportunity to fight in the big show as a late notice replacement for Bobby Green over a year ago to face Josh Burkman. Although originally a LW bout for Burkman, the fight was held at WW. Even though it was 2 weeks notice for Ottow, he was already preparing for a fight for the next weekend in Legacy FC. Though Ottow came away with the win, it was a competitive fight where a takedown or combo landed could've swayed a round in either's favor. It was also a fight against a LW fighter in Burkman who would go on to lose his next two fights in the first round to bring his record over the last 7 fights to 1-6.


Always game, Ottow accepted a fight in Brazil against BJJ world champion Sergio Moraes. Despite being pretty close to a grappling specialist, Moraes chose to strike with Ottow in the last two rounds, and won the decision with really ugly looping counter punches that would come at odd angles and tag Ottow coming in. In the third round, Moraes landed maybe the most significant blow of the match, timing a naked leg kick and stumbling Ottow with a straight right. Earlier, a naked leg kick led to Ottow being taken down and laid upon for the whole first round.


In his 3rd fight, Ottow won a comfortable decision against Kuichi Kunimoto, landing some compact straight punches and kicks to control the standup exchanges. Ottow won the 2nd round with his grappling, but was put on his back in the beginning of the 3rd and didn't get up until a few seconds before the end of the match.


Though winning 2 out of 3 of his UFC fights, it seems as if Ottow has barely scraped by in the big leagues. He is a technically sound striker who doesn't get too wild, but lacks power to seriously threaten any of his opponents (he has 1 TKO victory in his last 15 fights and that was against an undersized opponent). His lack of head movement and inability to slip out of the pocket after throwing his single or at most doubled up shots means he is hittable and can be countered. He appears to be a competent grappler but doesn't appear to be very strong and can be controlled for long periods of time on his back.


All of the above weaknesses will play into the strengths of Li Jingliang. Li is 5-2 in the UFC, but has faced mostly weak UFC competition with the exception of Nordine Taleb (who most fans believe he beat), and a very game Frank Camacho (although Camacho's quality wasn't well known before the fight). Still, what we've seen from Li so far indicates that he'll be a tough matchup for Ottow.


In the grappling department, Li has shown good strength in the clinch, solid defensive wrestling, and powerful ground strikes. Though he earned his nickname "the Leech" by being a tenacious grinder, in his last few fights, he's turned into and powerful striker in his last few fights. Though he has shown good head movement, and even some flashes of brilliance with slip counters, he's still hittable at times, eating otherwise fight ending power shots from Bobby Nash and Frank Camacho. Luckily his chin is ironclad and has held up.


Offensively, Li has shown pretty nice timing and counters. Against a naked leg kick by Nash, he timed a strong right straight right down the pipe. This same right hand would later land flush on Nash's chin and eventually lead to a KO. In the Camacho fight, he would land it several times from distance. He can get a bit creative at times, stepping in with uppercuts to split the guard of his opponents.


It's really hard to see where Ottow has an advantage in this fight. Ottow doesn't have the power to scare Li off, nor does he put together enough strikes in combination (as Li's head movement is usually good enough to slip the first couple of strikes, but can be caught by a 3rd or 4th). If the looping wide punches of Moraes can land against a stationary Ottow, the much more powerful, straighter, and better-timed punches of Li should catch Ottow more often and with more of an impact. If Moraes can time Ottow's naked kicks for takedowns and counters, than Li can do the same as well.


Thinking about this matchup, Ottow seems like the perfect opponent for Li to show off his skills without really being threatened. Given that the fight will be in Shanghai, one might think that the favorable matchup is intentional given the large and untapped Chinese market. Li is the favorite sitting at -170 but given the matchup and the home soil advantage, I think there may still be some value there.

Excellent bd. I agree having just finished tape myself and I bet Ottow big against Kuni and live bet him against Burk so I'm an Ottow fan! Moraes seemed to hurt him twice so i defo think it's possible that Li could shit him down. In four of his last five fights he has hurt or ko'd his opponents and i haven't rewatched the Camacho fight yet so it could be five out of five. But if memory serves me right he could have gone for the kill in the later rounds but opted to play it safe from distance im sure he hurt Camacho tho?
 
Excellent bd. I agree having just finished tape myself and I bet Ottow big against Kuni and live bet him against Burk so I'm an Ottow fan! Moraes seemed to hurt him twice so i defo think it's possible that Li could shit him down. In four of his last five fights he has hurt or ko'd his opponents and i haven't rewatched the Camacho fight yet so it could be five out of five. But if memory serves me right he could have gone for the kill in the later rounds but opted to play it safe from distance im sure he hurt Camacho tho?

Thanks man. Yeah that was my take on the Camacho fight too. I think he was a bit wary after eating Camacho's power in the 1st round and in the beginning of the 2nd. Also we've seen Camacho has a great chin and the guy was making Lawleresque war-faces, so it's hard to jump in for the kill when your opponent is doing that.
 
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