WAR ROOM LOUNGE V21: ♫♪ Tom Lehrer Awareness Week ♪♫

[Cubo de Sangre]

I can pass for white but not sure how often I do. I'm sure some people assume I'm white and some don't. I have an ethnic name though so that's the giveaway.

Come visit Big Island and I'll call you Chad. Oh wait, Whitey's the minority here. You don't want to join our group.

 

[curryjunkie]

Fuck me it must be a slow news week if all anyone can argue about is Liz warren signing a cookbook.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You said these sentences are identical in meaning.

• I have a distant relative who was Native American.
• Because I have a distant relative who was Native American I am Native American.

It's clear to me they aren't. I'm saying the first one makes one claim and the second one makes a separate claim. To illustrate, let's take a look at an example.

• I was born in America.
• Because I was born in American I am an American.

Here the second statement claims nothing more than what's claimed in the first. Why? Because it's a fact that being born in America makes you an American. It's also true that if you changed things up it would be false.

• I am an American.
• Because I'm an American I was born in America.

That makes no sense because born in America doesn't necessarily follow from being an American. Immigrants can become Americans. Now let's similarly examine our original statements in a changed up way..

• I am Native American.
• I have a distant relative who was Native American.

If Warren claims she is a Native American then it follows she has NA ancestry (Dances With Wolves notwithstanding). Clearly the second statement offers no more of a claim than the first because it naturally follows. Now back to the beginning.

• I have a distant relative who was Native American.
• Because I have a distant relative who was Native American I am Native American.

It's not a fact that being NA follows from the claim that one has a distant NA relative. As we've seen, it's highly debatable at what point the status of Native American is reached. Tribes don't even do it the same way when making official determinations. So because being NA doesn't necessarily follow from simply claiming to have a distant ancestor, those statements are not claiming the exact same thing. Which means that Warren has in fact claimed more than having a distant ancestor, as evidenced by her minority status claim at UPenn in a link provided by you.

Where this goes wrong is in the beginning. I think the statement is "because I have a distant NA relative, I am calling myself a NA" rather than that the two statements are identical. It's one complex statement. And then the argument seems to me that it is inappropriate for her to do so. That's fine (I don't agree or disagree with it, as it just seems like a matter of opinion rather than a dispute about facts or dishonesty--and she gave reasons that seem OK).

And then when she's criticized on the grounds that "she claimed to be NA," I think there's an implied "full-blooded" or "official" (since there is a process for official designation) when the statement was criticized that isn't appropriate since she said that she was not full-blooded or official and that she merely had a distant ancestor. We're back to it being a complex statement, and I think that Brown and then Trump deliberately encouraged the misreading for political gain, which annoys me (ever since she hit the scene, I was waiting for some kind of bullshit smear because she's otherwise such an obvious star). So it really does come down to what I said was interesting--that after years of attributing a position to liberals that very few actually hold, right-wingers seem to truly (if almost certainly temporarily) be embracing both opposition to "cultural appropriation" and race-based quotas.

As to the question of whether she benefited careerwise for the potentially inappropriate designation, I think there's very strong evidence that it was not a factor in her hiring. I think it gave a kind of bullshit boost to UPenn (making them appear more diverse than they actually were), though. Remember that she was actually a really big deal in bankruptcy and commercial law (third-most cited, I believe). The whole story seems like the kind of thing that explains why people hate politics.

Sometimes the smarter you get the dumber you get. Kobe's always had a ton of haters. As a fan I experienced five titles I likely wouldn't have otherwise and for most of his career I knew there was no better player on the court.

Again, a roughly top-20 all-time player is very, very good, and if he's paired with another even better player as well as a decent supporting cast, you'd expect some titles.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Where this goes wrong is in the beginning. I think the statement is "because I have a distant NA relative, I am calling myself a NA" rather than that the two statements are identical. It's one complex statement. And then the argument seems to me that it is inappropriate for her to do so. That's fine (I don't agree or disagree with it, as it just seems like a matter of opinion rather than a dispute about facts or dishonesty--and she gave reasons that seem OK).

You said that those statements were identical in terms of substance. It's right there on page 2.

You made the claim she only claimed to have a distant ancestor. I just demonstrated how the claim of her being a minority doesn't follow from that. Therefore the claim she made at Upenn (i.e. minority status) is a claim that's in addition to claiming the distant ancestor. There's only one issue here and that's the mantra/narrative you were repeating over and over in that thread. The issue with it is that it's logically incorrect. If you want to amend your narrative to her going so far as to claim she views herself to be of minority status (based on ancestry and family stories) then I'd agree that's accurate enough. Is that what you're doing?

I'm not responding to the rest because you're drifting off track.

Again, a roughly top-20 all-time player is very, very good, and if he's paired with another even better player as well as a decent supporting cast, you'd expect some titles.

Those kind of ranking are kinda dumb because different positions do different things. There's five positions. Kobe is as much of a consensus for #2 at the 2 as Jordan is #1 at the 2. In terms of assembling a team he's top 10 in the history of the game.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Why so many peeps going around with dubs? What I miss?

 

[Trotsky]

Wait, did that actually happen?!

EDIT: Holy crap!
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...r-over-garbage.3829637/page-51#post-145782787



Glad I didn't comment on the original thread

Yeah, it seems pretty undeniable that it's actually her too. FWIW, she's very articulate and her story seems believable.

Also, I lost it at "the well-regulated militia strikes again!" in re the father and son redneck super team.

 

[Higus]

Yeah, it seems pretty undeniable that it's actually her too. FWIW, she's very articulate and her story seems believable.

Also, I lost it at "the well-regulated militia strikes again!" in re the father and son redneck super team.

That was a good zinger in an otherwise completely messed up thread.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You said that those statements were identical in terms of substance. It's right there on page 2.

Maybe could have been clearer. They're connected.

You made the claim she only claimed to have a distant ancestor. I just demonstrated how the claim of her being a minority doesn't follow from that.

But it does follow from the claim that she has a distant ancestor and that is the basis for the designation.

If you want to amend your narrative to her going so far as to claim she views herself to be of minority status (based on ancestry and family stories) then I'd agree that's accurate enough. Is that what you're doing?

I'm saying that the basis for her claim is the distant ancestor. They aren't separate, conflicting claims. They're the same (complex) claim.

I'm not responding to the rest because you're drifting off track.

I don't think so. Let's be 100% honest here: The only reason this stupid story is even being discussed is that the GOP regards Warren as a threat in 2020. If not for that, it's just another lame campaign attack in an old Senate race. I think that discussing it without noting that is failing to address a major part of the story.

Those kind of ranking are kinda dumb because different positions do different things. There's five positions. Kobe is as much of a consensus for #2 at the 2 as Jordan is #1 at the 2. In terms of assembling a team he's top 10 in the history of the game.

It's not "dumb" to analyze performance and reach a conclusion on the basis of that. And being the second best at a position doesn't contradict anything that's been said. You keep implying that I think he sucks or something. Also, by the time Harden retires, he'll have passed Bryant on consensus rankings. Wade also has an argument based on the numbers, and his rep is close.

 

[TheComebackKid]

I can pass for white but not sure how often I do. I'm sure some people assume I'm white and some don't. I have an ethnic name though so that's the giveaway.

Are you middle eastern? I'm copper colored myself.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

I've got a good friend with a last name of Yuen

Looks as white as my half Irish half German self

His great great grandpa married a white chick. All their sons had kids with white chicks

Last name stayed alive on down the male line and bam. Pale Wisconsinite with a Chinese name

Stuff like that is kinda common here in Hawai’i. White looking people with Chinese last names, native looking people with German last names, etc.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Are you middle eastern? I'm copper colored myself.

No, I'm part South Asian.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Yeah, it seems pretty undeniable that it's actually her too. FWIW, she's very articulate and her story seems believable.

Also, I lost it at "the well-regulated militia strikes again!" in re the father and son redneck super team.

A mod checked her ip and it's from the area. Someone vpning to the locale of where their fake account is from seems too much effort to me for a troll

Still seems super weird to go join in on a conversation about your husband's death with shit lords online, but who am I to judge as I've thankfully not lost someone that tragically. I hope it's keeping her busy and out of the horrid rabbit hole that thoughts can spiral into.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Are you middle eastern? I'm copper colored myself.

I'm a tannish copper myself, except right after a fresh skin molting.

 

[Trotsky]

No, I'm part South Asian.

So that's why your posts are so spicy.

 

[Fawlty]

Two of four members of my sizable group research project (on data buffers), which is due tomorrow evening, have dropped the class. I really, really, really love group projects.

 

[Limbo Pete]

This film is not referenced enough fwiw imho ttt qft

He really really looks like that thing

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

But it does follow from the claim that she has a distant ancestor and that is the basis for the designation.

Yes, the distant ancestor claim is the basis of the minority status claim. I've never once suggested nor logically relied on it being otherwise. Let's take another look at our exercise.

• I am Native American.
• I have a distant relative who was Native American.

If Warren claims she is a Native American then it follows she has NA ancestry (Dances With Wolves notwithstanding). Clearly the second statement offers no more of a claim than the first because it naturally follows. Now back to the beginning.

• I have a distant relative who was Native American.
• Because I have a distant relative who was Native American I am Native American.

It's not a fact that being NA follows from the claim that one has a distant NA relative. As we've seen, it's highly debatable at what point the status of Native American is reached. Tribes don't even do it the same way when making official determinations. So because being NA doesn't necessarily follow from simply claiming to have a distant ancestor, those statements are not claiming the exact same thing.

The DNA thread that started this documented how Cherokee Nation has made it clear she's not Cherokee (as she claimed in the cookbook). It's documented how different objective standards for designation exist from tribe to tribe. It's also shown a very divided public opinion on the subjective standards. Now exactly what evidence can you present to show that having a distant ancestor of Native American heritage necessarily makes one a minority?

Otherwise, you're welcome.

I don't think so. Let's be 100% honest here: The only reason this stupid story is even being discussed is that the GOP regards Warren as a threat in 2020. If not for that, it's just another lame campaign attack in an old Senate race. I think that discussing it without noting that is failing to address a major part of the story.

Ok, I'll humor you. First note that I only entered the thread based on comments in the Lounge thread. I stated clearly and upfront that I hadn't read it because it seemed fucking stupid. So I've already been honest. Here's hoping you catch up (as it pertains to the point of dispute).



I have no idea what the GOP thinks. I sure don't get a sense around here the Republican voters fear her at all. Yes, that's part of the story. For those who wish to discuss it. I wouldn't have made it past a few pages had you not been in there floating the false narrative. The only things I'm interested in here are the exercise in meaning and holding you to the standards you claim to abide by.

It's not "dumb" to analyze performance and reach a conclusion on the basis of that. And being the second best at a position doesn't contradict anything that's been said. You keep implying that I think he sucks or something. Also, by the time Harden retires, he'll have passed Bryant on consensus rankings. Wade also has an argument based on the numbers, and his rep is close.

It's "kinda dumb" to rely more on numbers than results and reverence from peers. I'm all for statistical analysis as a useful tool for improvement.

Please show me the words that implied that you think he sucks. I'll see what I can learn from them. Top 20 all-time is gonna be an amazing list no matter what discrepancies appear. Even top 50 is an honor. I simply don't agree with that low of a ranking and gave you a rational explanation why.

Wade is close in some numbers but nowhere close in rep. He won't be adding any accolades this year and his lifetime stats are most likely going to drop. We'll see with Harden. But it's highly unlikely he dwarfs Kobe in stats. Almost certain he won't approach him in results. And most certainly will never have the overall reverence of his peers. Nobody is touting his competitiveness (an area that Kobe's rep equals Jordan's). Nobody his scared of his defense. In fact, he's viewed as a liability. A far cry from 10 first team all-defense. Harden will never be a two way player and that's why he's nowhere near on pace to be the winner Kobe is.

Top 12 picks if I'm a GM that wants to win titles. In order (subject to change).

• Magic PG
• Kareem C
• Jordan SG
• LeBron SF
• Garnett PF
• Kobe SG
• Bird SF
• Shaq C
• Stockton PG
• Duncan PF
• Pippen SF
• Durant PF

 

[Limbo Pete]

Two of four members of my sizable group research project (on data buffers), which is due tomorrow evening, have dropped the class. I really, really, really love group projects.

God that shit sucks

 

[Lead]

Two of four members of my sizable group research project (on data buffers), which is due tomorrow evening, have dropped the class. I really, really, really love group projects.

The amount of rants I could do on group projects. The amount of times I had to do 90% of the work. The amount of times I wondered if those people are currently employed or not....

 

[Fawlty]

The amount of rants I could do on group projects. The amount of times I had to do 90% of the work. The amount of times I wondered if those people are currently employed or not....

I'm just thankful there's another serious person in our group lol. I'm only stuck with 50%. The late notice is the absolute worst. So glad I have nothing to do tomorrow, so I can pull an all-nighter.