Who stands out as the real GOAT

[TrueFightFan]

We've beaten grease-gate to death, and you make valid points regarding the issue as well. I can't leave without disputing your claim that GSP could have fought at LHW though. Technically speaking, he does walk around between 185 and 205, so he legally could have made the contracted weight, true enough. But that's not how this game works, and you know it.

GSP would have likely been the smallest LHW in UFC history. It would be like Conor McGregor fighting at WW, not even being able to make the 170 lb limit. That's insanity (good thing he wasn't fighting a career WW). And yes, BJ Penn fighting all the way at fucking LHW is nutty as hell, and is respectable in and of itself. But when assessing legacies results do matter.

Forget greasegate, all of this was brought up in support of my opinion as to Penn being greater than GSP. He accomplished in a few years, what it took GSP over 10 years to accomplish and he did it on his own terms.

As for GSP not fighting at LHW, that is his choice not to do that. We then move to Fedor who walked around at 225-230lbs, 5'11" and chubby as hell. He was arguably the smallest HW but he didn't let that deter him from proving himself as a true GOAT.

 

[70% Big Rigg]

 

[krelianx]

GSP, by any objective standard, blows the others away.

 

[Wicked_1]

Fedor is goat.

 

[Magnum1978]

1a/b GSP / Fedor
DQ. Jones (if he didn't pop)
DQ. Andy (if he didn't pop)
2. MM
3. Aldo

 

[Seaside]

his teeth seem so yellow. wtf! he is rich. they should be all white

 

[MMAcolyte]

A solid rebuttal and all good points made, however, GSP being the 170lb GOAT and his team, still had to rely on vaseline to help insure a victory against a smaller fighter in Penn.

As for the first fight, 1 of the 3 judges saw Penn as the victor. The other two didn't. I felt that he won but he was not the UFC's pick to fight Hughes again. Was their bias in the judging? Perhaps. Whatever the outcome, it was enough to make GSP and his team not want to "stand" against Penn again and a little vaseline goes a long way in helping prevent a stand up war. The commission agreed that they screwed up on the vaseline situation but the damage was done. White, knew they busted GSP and fully expected the fight to be stopped. He can be a buffoon but in this instance, he was right.

As for the Silva/vaseline incident, I didn't really know about it nor do I care. My point was that GSP used it to keep Penn from using his Jiu Jitsu against him. Hughes and Serra both confirmed that GSP felt slippery in their second fights with him and this may be what alerted the commission to keep an eye out for it. Who knows. The fight goes down as the "beating of a lifetime" for Penn but those who are true followers of the sport know otherwise.

With all of this said, I am not a GSP detractor, I'm actually a fan and believe that he will go down as the greatest welterweight of all time but he cannot be considered an overall GOAT because he cut weight to duck two weight classes that he could have fought in. LHW and Middleweight. Fighters who cut are fighters who duck, period. That is why I believe Penn is a true GOAT. With everything he was able to accomplish and he did it on his terms against whomever, whenever. That is a true warrior and his record is not indicative of how he was once one of the most dangerous men in the world.

K so I watched their first fight again. How long has it been since you've seen it? And how exactly did you score it for Penn? It was a very clear cut rounds 2&3 for Georges. That one judge who scored it for Penn was Cecil fucking Peoples <45>

 

[HendoIsChamp]

The thread is flawed. It states that no other fighter had as good of record as Andy or JJ before they got popped. This is not true as gsp had more top ten victories and therefore had the better record. GSP has always been goat if you stick to facts. Opinions can differ though.

 

[EmbraceTheGrind]

GSP over Fedor. 26-2 , avenged his losses, won UFC titles. Sorry but winning in Japan and Russia is NOT impressive. Fedor got snuffed right as he came to the states. Jones and Silva are steroid cheats. GSP 1 and DJ 2 IMO

 

[Jet40]

GSP.
Fedor a close second.

 

[benebox]

Fedor is #1, so its between Aldo and GSP for the number 2 spot.

 

[Bork Neslar]

Mickey Gall.

 

[fedoriswar37]

GSP and Jones fought the best comp. Silva and fedor had the more spectacular careers. Imo GSP Jones Silva Fedor. Aldos a step behind at 5.

 

[Noleggeisha]

Fedor is the vintage GOAT.

DC is the modern days GOAT.

JJ and Anderson out of the question because of PEDs.

 

[Kryptt]

 

[TrueFightFan]

K so I watched their first fight again. How long has it been since you've seen it? And how exactly did you score it for Penn? It was a very clear cut rounds 2&3 for Georges. That one judge who scored it for Penn was Cecil fucking Peoples <45>

Maybe a year but I have watched it quite a few times. Total strikes, I give the edge to GSP but effective striking definitely goes to Penn. I'm also ok with a split decision either way but it does "justify" GSP greasing for their next fight because he wanted none of Penn's standup.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

GSP over Fedor. 26-2 , avenged his losses, won UFC titles. Sorry but winning in Japan and Russia is NOT impressive. Fedor got snuffed right as he came to the states. Jones and Silva are steroid cheats. GSP 1 and DJ 2 IMO

Japan actually had the majority of all the best talent in the world. UFC HW was minor leagues from 2000 to 2012. Fedor fought in RINGS, PRIDE, Affliction, Strikeforce who all had better Heavyweight divisions and better fighters than UFC.

And Fedor started out 4-0 in America so your statement about "snuffed when be came to the states" is completely untrue.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

My unpopular opinion. I still think this man is the GOAT, and I've seen them all..

I know he got caught juicing. But who's to say GSP and Fedor weren't using back in the day when ped's were rampant in mma ..? I think they likely were...jmo..

I suspect they both were using, simply because I think everyone in high level sport uses. But in their case its hypothetical, because neither has tested positive. And the problem with hypotheticals is that you can make any number of them up to justify whatever position you want.

For instance, hypothetically someone could say if Rickson was fighting now he'd beat everyone (by armbar of course) - and its impossible to prove otherwise. So because there's no proof that Rickson wouldn't beat everyone, clearly Rickson is the greatest fighter ever. This is just inherent in the problem of proving a negative - in most cases (outside of some binary situations where its one or the other) it can't be done, so asking for proof that a fighter hasn't used is like asking for proof that Rickson wouldn't beat someone he's never fought ... no such proof is possible.

For my part, I think its pretty clear that the four GOAT's (in no particular order) are GSP, Anderson, Fedor and Jones. But GOAT is totally subjective, so of course there's never going to be consensus on it.

There are very few athletes in any major sport that are consensus GOAT's. Some people are saying Lebron is better than Jordan, some say Bonds was better than Ruth, some say Orr or Lemieux was better than Gretzky and so on. And that's because everyone has their own definition of GOAT.

What's interesting about GOAT discussions is not who people chose, but their reasons for their choice. My saying Anderson, GSP, Fedor and Jones are the co-equal GOAT's says much more about me than it does about them.