Why didn't early MMA wrestlers like Tank Abbott utilize G&P as effectively as Mark Coleman?

[shockwave kicker]

Second, following from the previous point, the reason that Royce got the submission was because Ken gave him literally no respect on the ground. He thought he was some Karate dude in pajamas.

That's impossible. It was the last fight and he was watching the tournament in the locker room

 

[Bullitt68]

That's impossible. It was the last fight and he was watching the tournament in the locker room

First, it wasn't the last fight, it was a semi-final match. Second, Ken was fighting Pat Smith right after Royce/Jimmerson, so who's to say that Ken even watched that fight? He may have been, and probably was, warming up and concentrating on his own impending fight. Third, Royce didn't submit Jimmerson, he just took him down and stayed in the mount until Jimmerson tapped, and after he threw a bunch of kicks to boot. It's not at all impossible that Ken had no idea that Royce had any submission knowledge, let alone that his grappling game was as extensive as it was. But even if we assume that someone on Ken's team told him at the very least that Royce shot a double on Jimmerson, that still doesn't mean that Ken's going to assume that anyone on that card has anywhere near the submission pedigree that he had. And he easily sprawled on Royce's shot and reversed him by just muscling him over. Ken literally said in his post-fight interview after tapping Pat Smith that the fight was easier than his Pancrase fights "because he doesn't know how to do any submissions." That's what Ken thought the whole tournament would be: A bunch of pseudo-tough guys who have no clue about grappling all of whom he was going to tap in seconds.

 

[shockwave kicker]

First, it wasn't the last fight, it was a semi-final match. Second, Ken was fighting Pat Smith right after Royce/Jimmerson, so who's to say that Ken even watched that fight? He may have been, and probably was, warming up and concentrating on his own impending fight. Third, Royce didn't submit Jimmerson, he just took him down and stayed in the mount until Jimmerson tapped, and after he threw a bunch of kicks to boot. It's not at all impossible that Ken had no idea that Royce had any submission knowledge, let alone that his grappling game was as extensive as it was. But even if we assume that someone on Ken's team told him at the very least that Royce shot a double on Jimmerson, that still doesn't mean that Ken's going to assume that anyone on that card has anywhere near the submission pedigree that he had. And he easily sprawled on Royce's shot and reversed him by just muscling him over. Ken literally said in his post-fight interview after tapping Pat Smith that the fight was easier than his Pancrase fights "because he doesn't know how to do any submissions." That's what Ken thought the whole tournament would be: A bunch of pseudo-tough guys who have no clue about grappling all of whom he was going to tap in seconds.

The Gracie challenges were well known before UFC 1. Chuck Norris was already a brown belt in BJJ.

 

[Bullitt68]

The Gracie challenges were well known before UFC 1. Chuck Norris was already a brown belt in BJJ.

That was pre-Internet, pre-social media, pre-streaming. Ken was busy in Japan training in catch wrestling and being a pro wrestler before starting to compete in Pancrase. He wasn't plugged into the Brazilian vale tudo scene, nor was he running in the same circles as Chuck Norris. I know it's hard for people today to imagine it, but there was a time, and it wasn't that long ago, when very few people, including even in the martial arts community, had ever heard of the Gracies or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

 

[shockwave kicker]

That was pre-Internet, pre-social media, pre-streaming. Ken was busy in Japan training in catch wrestling and being a pro wrestler before starting to compete in Pancrase. He wasn't plugged into the Brazilian vale tudo scene, nor was he running in the same circles as Chuck Norris. I know it's hard for people today to imagine it, but there was a time, and it wasn't that long ago, when very few people, including even in the martial arts community, had ever heard of the Gracies or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Okey but why would it matter what he thought about Royce? If he's a better and stronger grappler he should win anyway.

 

[Bullitt68]

Okey but why would it matter what he thought about Royce? If he's a better and stronger grappler he should win anyway.

We've now gone around in a circle. See above for the explanation of how Royce beat him. And it's a sports truism that the better athlete/team on paper doesn't always win, which is why games and fights aren't played or fought on paper. Any given Sunday and all...

 

[shockwave kicker]

We've now gone around in a circle. See above for the explanation of how Royce beat him. And it's a sports truism that the better athlete/team on paper doesn't always win, which is why games and fights aren't played or fought on paper. Any given Sunday and all...

But even if Ken at his best is a far superior grappler. He had only known submission grappling for one and a half years.

Is that enough vs 20 years for Royce?

 

[shockwave kicker]

Having watched the sport from the beginning, I never got why Coleman got all the credit for GnP.

Because he did it against BJJ?