Why don’t some people accept that Poverty in America is a lifestyle choice?

[Falsedawn]

Wealth distribution via the market is very equitable.

Wealth naturally builds on those who can build it. That's how compounding interest works. A compounded rate quickly approaches infinity.

If you can make decisions that grow wealth, you will become wealthy.

If you can't maintain wealth, well, yeah, you're poor.

This is why factories are owned by the wealthy instead of poor workers. If the workers owned the factory, they would run it out of business and then there wouldn't be any wealth anymore.

This is why most new wealth creation flows to those who are already wealthy. This is why a small amount of people control so much of the world's wealth.

This is also why income distribution is much different than wealth distribution.

This is also why liberals never cite income distribution stats and instead spout wealth distribution stats. They know that most people don't know the difference between the two and intentionally mislead them to anger them into being easily manipulated. I consider that lying.

BREAKING: SOCIAL MARKET ECONOMIES DEBUNKED

Checkmate Germans!

Wait...

 

[WTF2008]

I have to disagree. I once worked at Burger King (high school and I only worked one day and then quit - I'm not cut out for that life) but you do need training for those jobs. OTJ training but even the most rudimentary MW job requires some training.

Now my job packing books into boxes probably required the least amount of training out of every job I've ever had (which is probably 6 different jobs at this point in my life). It wasn't MW though.

First job in middle school was at dairy queen for 4.50 an hour. I was 13 and it's the worst job I've ever had.

I can't imagine an adult settling on that kind of job but it must happen.

 

[superpunch]

BREAKING: SOCIAL MARKET ECONOMIES DEBUNKED

Checkmate Germans!

Wait...

Germany would be the 5th poorest state in the country per capita.

European lifestyles are generally very poor. They do have good healthcare, I'll give them that. But day-to-day life is poverty compared to America.

 

[Falsedawn]

Germany would be the 5th poorest state in the country per capita.

European lifestyles are generally very poor. They do have good healthcare, I'll give them that. But day-to-day life is poverty compared to America.

BREAKING: COMPONENT PART OF THE WORLD'S LARGEST ECONOMY LARGER THAN NOT THE WORLD'S LONGEST ECONOMY.

CHECKMATE ECONOMISTS.

 

[panamaican]

First job in middle school was at dairy queen for 4.50 an hour. I was 13 and it's the worst job I've ever had.

I can't imagine an adult settling on that kind of job but it must happen.

More than you know. And more these days than in the past as changes in the work world are putting downward pressure on adult individuals to seek out these types of jobs that they would have avoided in the past.

People talk about these being jobs for HS kids but HS kids are getting killed in the job market. It's down like 10% over the last decade and 20% over the last 40 years or so.

Those jobs are going to adults and automation.

 

[superpunch]

BREAKING: COMPONENT PART OF THE WORLD'S LARGEST ECONOMY LARGER THAN NOT THE WORLD'S LONGEST ECONOMY.

CHECKMATE ECONOMISTS.

Where did you get that I said that parts of the US economy are larger than Germany's economy?

 

[Gandhi]

What market? I know we don't have a free market, I KNOW we don't have capitalism.

If you mean things get skewed in our current cronyism market, then yes you are right. Cronies reap a lot of the benefits at the top, but working crap jobs and complaining that you work a crap job won't make you any better off either

No such thing as a free market and if you think we need a "freer" will deal with inequality you are mistaken.

Who talked about complaining? Simply put policy should not be guided by this "bootstraps / it's your fault" garbage.

 

[superpunch]

Are you saying that a security clearance entitles you to a job outside of the service industry?

A security clearance and a high school diploma or GED will get you jobs on government contracts.

 

[ManCityFC9]

Is it pure ignorance? Denial? Poverty in America is really inexcusable. I laugh when people talk about how people are “keeping them down”. Newsflash: CEO making bank doesn’t stop you from making bank.

The thing is these people simply lack work ethic and are bad with money. They blow all their funds on trash and if they actually work they don’t want to put in the extra hours or acquire a side hustle. Once I finish my Masters I am planning on working 5 jobs. My only problem is there isn’t enough hours in the week.

Harshly stated but succinct and with two valid points;
1. work ethic
-for example, I've seen too many people run from STEM majors because "it was too hard"
--the aspirations and ambition were there but things hit the fan at the first sign of adversity

2. bad with money
-I can honestly say that this is true for myself as well; there are times where I literally think, what the heck did I buy that for?(specifically dinners and drinks are my vice). I have made a conscious effort to limit this and barely drink at all.
--As for other people who are worse than I am(IMO); consumerism is a disease; one can enjoy life without buying overpriced clothing and accessories,
cigarettes and copious amount of alcohol are expensive in todays dollars and expensive to your health in the future.

I will say opportunity is not equal for everyone but there is nothing wrong with a little investing in yourself(i.e. school loans)

fair point that I can agree with;
individuals are accountable for themselves...
-even if you truly feel its a systemic opponent, that is still no excuse for you not to apply more of the required effort and make more money in this capitalistic environment.

 

[Scheme]

Also, single mother + 1 kid needs to make $30k, $18k + $12k for child day-care, to rise above poverty. That's not so easy for many.

The problem is that single mothers on minimum wage jobs are having kids in the first place.

If you can't afford a child, maybe you shouldn't have one until you could?

But I guess if sex feels a little better without a condom then it's all worth it.

 

[WTF2008]

More than you know. And more these days than in the past as changes in the work world are putting downward pressure on adult individuals to seek out these types of jobs that they would have avoided in the past.

People talk about these being jobs for HS kids but HS kids are getting killed in the job market. It's down like 10% over the last decade and 20% over the last 40 years or so.

Those jobs are going to adults and automation.

That's pretty shitty if a highschool kid can't get a horrible job to buy his first car and pay for gas to take Sandy up to makeout point lol.

All kidding aside, those stats are scary.

 

[redwire]

personally poverty doesnt affect me, i made my fortune selling truckloads of Bootstrap Buddy!® on the QVC channel in the 90s, i spend my days shitposting on sherdog and snorting cocaine off hookers
heres darlene modelling our bestselling line, before Bootstrap Buddy® they were round her ankles

I have no idea what you're on about, however, I feel that it's important for you to post more.

 

[panamaican]

Harshly stated but succinct and with two valid points;
1. work ethic
-for example, I've seen too many people run from STEM majors because "it was too hard"
--the aspirations and ambition were there but things hit the fan at the first sign of adversity

2. bad with money
-I can honestly say that this is true for myself as well; there are times where I literally think, what the heck did I buy that for?(specifically dinners and drinks are my vice). I have made a conscious effort to limit this and barely drink at all.
--As for other people who are worse than I am(IMO); consumerism is a disease; one can enjoy life without buying overpriced clothing and accessories,
cigarettes and copious amount of alcohol are expensive in todays dollars and expensive to your health in the future.

I will say opportunity is not equal for everyone but there is nothing wrong with a little investing in yourself(i.e. school loans)

fair point that I can agree with;
individuals are accountable for themselves...
-even if you truly feel its a systemic opponent, that is still no excuse for you not to apply more of the required effort and make more money in this capitalistic environment.

I want to agree with you except that the actual economy contradicts that assessment that people can just make more money. I was just posting about how the high school students have seen double digit declines in their employment prospects, in part because more adults are taking the jobs they used to work and there are fewer such jobs as well.

I think it's hard to claim that poor people aren't trying when their efforts to find work indicate that they are even willing to work hs level jobs to make a living. At some point, people have to acknowledge that the economy itself is a major player in why some people are poor.

If wages have been flat for 20+ years, how exactly are people supposed to make more money? Things like that.

That's not an excuse for poor people or their work ethic but I just find it strange that people discuss the money making prospects of other people without ever discussing the economy and current trends in compensation.

 

[Gandhi]

Wealth distribution via the market is very equitable. Wealth naturally builds on those who can build it. That's how compounding interest works. A compounded rate quickly approaches infinity. If you can make decisions that grow wealth, you will become wealthy. If you can't maintain wealth, well, yeah, you're poor. This is why factories are owned by the wealthy instead of poor workers. If the workers owned the factory, they would run it out of business and then there wouldn't be any wealth anymore.This is why most new wealth creation flows to those who are already wealthy. This is why a small amount of people control so much of the world's wealth. This is also why income distribution is much different than wealth distribution. This is also why liberals never cite income distribution stats and instead spout wealth distribution stats. They know that most people don't know the difference between the two and intentionally mislead them to anger them into being easily manipulated. I consider that lying.

Rather than just fall down your rabbit hole retardation, I'll bold and post.

But hey keep having your imaginary argument with imaginary liberals about imaginary facts.

I'll then add that you fail at reading, I never said market were entirely inequitable but not always equitable, making the obvious inference that policy is needed to prevent the existence of poverty and growing inequality. What are you proposing, the unchecked concentration of wealth and accompanying political power? Great, that should end well...

 

[Falsedawn]

Where did you get that I said that parts of the US economy are larger than Germany's economy?

Try the post I quoted.

A security clearance and a high school diploma or GED will get you jobs on government contracts.

So there's enough for everyone huh? It's guaranteed, a security clearance solves everything.

Why haven't we been publicizing this magic solution to all the unemployed? "Hey coal miners, fret not about the factories closing, just go get a security clearance and work for the government! There's enough for everyone"!

Hmmmmm?
<puh-lease75>

 

[panamaican]

Also a point @Jack V Savage often points out is the time component. Very few people are poor throughout the entirety of their working careers. They might never be rich but they transition over time and are replaced by new poor people just entering the workforce at entry level wages.

 

[Luminaire]

Who paid or is paying for your doctorate? If it's you, good job.

Who paid for your education up until then and what job did they have?

One of those lack of foresight people I see.

Student loans exist for a reason, and you don't have to go to Harvard or be a Doctor to get a good job. (In other words your debt doesn't need to be 200k+)

Go to a JC + state school combo... get a useful degree, graduate with sub 40k debt... move on with your life as a decent earning professional.

Go back to school for a Masters if it makes sense to advance your career.

Shit isn't that hard... people act like they can't afford school and then somehow have credit card debt. (If you don't get that line, it's that you were willing to go into debt for a new TV or some shit, but not for your own personal advancement)

 

[Ophydian]

Imagine if every adult was capable of something more than a MW job. Imagine the competition that would create. Guess what, we are back to adults working minimum wage jobs because there are no other jobs for them.

We need poor people, end of story.

 

[Scheme]

I want to agree with you except that the actual economy contradicts that assessment that people can just make more money. I was just posting about how the high school students have seen double digit declines in their employment prospects, in part because more adults are taking the jobs they used to work and there are fewer such jobs as well.

I think it's hard to claim that poor people aren't trying when their efforts to find work indicate that they are even willing to work hs level jobs to make a living. At some point, people have to acknowledge that the economy itself is a major player in why some people are poor.

If wages have been flat for 20+ years, how exactly are people supposed to make more money? Things like that.

That's not an excuse for poor people or their work ethic but I just find it strange that people discuss the money making prospects of other people without ever discussing the economy and current trends in compensation.

The high schoolers not being able to find jobs is also due to massive legal and illegal immigration over-saturing the low skill job market in certain areas. America has been taking in too many people and the market just can't keep up with it.

Automation is another problem that is affecting the low skill job market.

Also, the market decides naturally what type of jobs are in demand, and which aren't. A guy can get a PHD in geology all he wants, if there are no jobs or need in that field, then it's tough luck. A country could be full of PHD's in geology and it wouldn't matter if the market doesn't need it. People need to look at the market, decide what jobs are in demand, and adjust their career paths for that. For example, at my university there were more first year students in journalism/philosophy/art history than in computer science/math/engineering. That is definitely not reflective of the job markets out there.

Nowadays, with all the free education and information you can get online it should be the easiest time in the world to shape your career in the right direction.

 

[superpunch]

Try the post I quoted.

Oh, I see the confusion. Per capita means an average weighted by each individual of the population. Per capita isn't an absolute size. That should clear it up.

Germany would be the 5th poorest state in the country per capita.

So there's enough for everyone huh? It's guaranteed, a security clearance solves everything.

Why haven't we been publicizing this magic solution to all the unemployed? "Hey coal miners, fret not about the factories closing, just go get a security clearance and work for the government! There's enough for everyone"!

Take a 3 month coding bootcamp and make $60-$100K depending on where you live, then.

In 1970, if you didn't go to college then you were stuck working on farms or in the factory for $15/ hour.

Now, you can start an online affiliate business. You can learn to code and make $30-$50/ hour entry level, depending on where you live. You can teach yourself almost any professional job skill for free on the internet.

There's more than enough for everyone. There's more and greater opportunity than ever before. It's just a little more complicated than walking across the street to the factory though.