Wing Chun or Muay Thai? Which is Truly More Effective for Self Defense?

[kenpeters8]

Wing Chun is a waste of time. Enough said.

 

[bobthebuilder]

out of these two the best for self defense is MT, but if it is Russian WC then this is far superior.



I don't think this is a useful conversation though, because double tiger claw dominates everything. WC is pretentious in its open palm style, while MT is obviously flawed in that it does not help you block a large number of strikes that wouldn't hurt anyway.

 

[BeerCityBandit]

The answer is simple: whichever one you're better at. Traditional martial arts do work, but the system of "leveling up" from belt to belt by memorizing and performing specific moves in a kata is outdated.
I used to take karate classes from 3rd to 7th grade, and I still catch myself going back to some of the blocks and kicks I learned then and have incorporated them into my sparring to great effect.

The idea is not to stick to one specific martial art dogmatically. Take what works and use it. Discard what doesn't. You just have go out there and I style suits you.

 

[Chinaboxer]

i teach both Muay Thai and Wing Chun, so i feel i can shed a little light on the subject.

What i love about Muay Thai - conditioning, conditioning, conditioning! this inherently is what makes it so effective. it pushes you through physical pressure and mental pressure which shapes the individual into becoming physically fit and mentally tough.

What i hate about Muay Thai - conditioning, conditioning, conditioning! it's heavily based on athleticism which means it's good when you are young but as you get older (i am 46, i started Muay Thai at 20) it becomes harder and harder to maintain the very essence of what makes Muay Thai great...the athleticism. i compare it to a Lambroghini. it's super fast and a high performance vehicle. but to keep it high performance requires constant maintenance. you cannot let a Lambroghini sit stagnant too long or else it performs like crap. you cannot use regular oil. it requires special fuel.

What i love about Wing Chun - to create force, it is based on the mass and not so much the acceleration or speed. Wing Chun is also based on leverage, which is the crucial ingredient to do little but gain alot. In other words, it shares the same concepts as the Grappling Arts. Because of this, it allows the person to train at a high level even at a much older age. i compare it to a Steam Roller. it's mass is heavy but moves slowly.

What i hate about Wing Chun - the wing chun community. ugh, i can't stand their pettiness. they are so divided and can't even get along. they agree on nothing and fight over the most idiotic things. the truth is that most couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag! The vast majority of Wing Chun practiced today is devoid of real physical and mental pressure with a non compliant individual. without that heavy, consistent pressure testing, it ends up becoming a crappy version of short arm kickboxing.

so, the bottom line is, if you are younger in age, or able and willing to perform the constant maintenance, then i would choose Muay Thai. if you are older and want a martial art with longevity, then i would say Wing Chun, but only if you practice it with a Grappler's attitude and training methodology.

Here is a video interview i did a few years ago. Just a FYI, i had nothing to do with the filming or editing of this video. As a side note, i live, teach and train here in the los angeles area and love to train and workout with fellow martial artists. i'm often at open mats all around town.

 

[kenpeters8]

That wing chun bullcrap doesn't work! Anderson Silva was trying to do some wing chun shit and didn't work at all. He should've stick to his Muay Thai and boxing and he would've won the fight. Enough with that wing chun hand flashing shit.

 

[jlagman]

My view on such matters nowadays is, do whatever floats your boat. Street fights are stupid, self-defense is a wide open subject with many people peddling their snake oil. Hard competition may better prepare you for such things but there are no guarantees especially when there are multiple attackers or weapons involved.

 

[freaky]

That wing chun bullcrap doesn't work! Anderson Silva was trying to do some wing chun shit and didn't work at all. He should've stick to his Muay Thai and boxing and he would've won the fight. Enough with that wing chun hand flashing shit.

That's not the first time Anderson did that and he never failed til now at the good ole age of 40.

 

[kenpeters8]

out of these two the best for self defense is MT, but if it is Russian WC then this is far superior.



I don't think this is a useful conversation though, because double tiger claw dominates everything. WC is pretentious in its open palm style, while MT is obviously flawed in that it does not help you block a large number of strikes that wouldn't hurt anyway.

Funny video! That looked like some garbage wing chun shit. LOL!

 

[thugpoet]

nether if you want to learn self defense get a gun or knife. If you want to learn to fight one on one, MT has proven to be effective in NHB style fights wing chun has not.

 

[kenpeters8]

nether if you want to learn self defense get a gun or knife. If you want to learn to fight one on one, MT has proven to be effective in NHB style fights wing chun has not.

Exactly. Wing Chun only proven to be GARBAGE. It has not and will never ben proven to be effective.

 

[Paradigm]

Most users who answered feel Muay Thai is more effective than Wing Chun Kyun for actual combat. However, and I mean no offense to anyone, I'm wondering if this perhaps due to not very good instructors? From the way Chris Chan was spoken about on this thread, it seems like he is or wasn't a very good sifu and thus wouldn't teach good Wing Chun in comparison to others.

Also, I've read and heard only a minority of Wing Chun sifus teach good and effective Wing Chun. It seems like this could be true because from my little knowledge of Wing Chun Kyun, I can see a significant difference between specific people on YouTube who chi saui or spar. I've seen some Wing Chun practitioners make mistakes they shouldn't be making such as over-extending the arm longer than Wing Chun teaches or leaving one arm out for too long when one could bring it back and continue attacking and defending. Other Wing Chun practitioners I've seen don't make such noticeable mistakes and seemingly spar better or chi sau spar better.

A few examples of seemingly good and well respected Wing Chun sifus are Gary Lam, (his student) Evangelos and David Peterson from the Wong Shun Leung lineage, Randy Williams (Steve Seagal's bodyguard), Hawkins Cheung and Wang Zhi Peng. Has anyone on here learned from any of these instructors or their students or any other seemingly good and well respected Wing Chun sifus or sparred with any such people?

Thank you for reading everyone.

wait...Sensei Seagal has a bodyguard? seems a bit redundant, no? lol

 

[VanteMMA]

Muay thai!

Not that wing chun is completely useless. I've had a lot of success with parrying downwards and immediately following up with a wing chun style back hand. It's unexpected and mostly connects.

There are other infighting wing chun techniques that could be applied effectively in the right context.

However as a 'system', Wing chun fails if that's the only thing you rely on for reasons already mentioned in this thread.

Muay thai is a more complete fighting system, especially when applied to self defence.

 

[killedsirius]

Self defence is all relative. As a woman my striking skills aren't going to be knocking out some 6'4 200lb animal of a man. But I could do some damage to the average Joe with punches and kicks. However the footwork I learned in boxing should help me evade an attacker by not allowing myself get cornerd. I also do nogi now, which might help if someone took me down. However if someone has a knife, I'm probably goosed. I think any art will help, but there's no guarantees

 

[SuperiorHands]

Only Muay Thai and have only sparred with Muay Thai/kickboxing and a few MMA guys.

Never sparrd with a wing chun guy before, never even met one before

I've sparred with a few wing chun guys... they are so bad it's ridiculous. All those sticky hand drills and forms don't do shit, they are a deer in headlights the first time they see a fast 1 - 2. Honestly from what I've seen I think most people would be better off throwing haymakers for self defense than studying wc.

 

[kenpeters8]

I've sparred with a few wing chun guys... they are so bad it's ridiculous. All those sticky hand drills and forms don't do shit, they are a deer in headlights the first time they see a fast 1 - 2. Honestly from what I've seen I think most people would be better off throwing haymakers for self defense than studying wc.

That's because those wing chun idiots all do pretend fighting.

 

[TheNightmanCometh]

The questions below are directed only to people who have learned both Muay Thai and Wing Chun completely, learned both of them for at least over a year, and at the least have learned either Wing Chun or Muay Thai for over a year and have sparred and/or fought with quite a few people of the other martial art who had about as much experience and skill as them or more. Before I ask my questions I quickly want to state I'm aware that (and if you personally think disagree please give your opinion on the matter) for the most part it's the individual and not the style that determines how good of a martial artist/fighter he/she will be.

My questions are:

1. Which martial art is truly more effective for self defense, Muay Thai or Wing Chun? And self defense in that one can effectively defend himself and others if need be from both unskilled and very skilled opponents. Which martial art has the edge over the other even if not by much? which is more effective and why is it?

2. If Wing Chun's training method was practiced with a lot more resistance and with more sparring like sport martial arts such a Muay Thai, Boxing, or MMA, do you you think this would make Wing Chun any more effective and if so by how much? Or do you think it's possible a few/quite a lot of Wing Chun techniques would be discarded or new techniques added thus making Wing Chun into a technically different martial art?

3. If Muay Thai's training method was practiced with it's only emphasis being self defense like Wing Chun or K'rav Maga (but Muay Thai still kept it's good resistance and sparring it already has), do you think this would make Muay Thai any more effective and if yes, how much more? Or do you think it's possible a few/quite a lot of Muay Thai's techniques would be discarded or a few/many new techniques would be added that it would become a different martial art (or basically be very similar to K'rav Maga just without the ground/knife fighting & stereotypical emphasis of striking the groin K'rav Maga has)?

Thank you for reading.

First of all you never completely learn anything, so this idea that someone has to "completely learn" Wing Chun and Muay Thai to form an opinion is narrow minded. Wing Chun is garbage. I know you don't want to hear the truth that has been gnawing at the back of your mind for years, but it is garbage.

1. Muay Thai, obviously. Wing Chun is too limited, too soft, and too pretentious to ever elevate your fighting skills to a useful level. Where are all the MMA Wing Chun fighters? Oh, they don't exist? Exactly. Karate, Wrestling, BJJ, JJ, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do. All of these are represented in MMA, where is Wing Chun? Perhaps if gloves were eliminated you might see more trapping of hands but I doubt it.

2. No, Wing Chun has so many fundamental flaws that it will never compete with any harder style of Martial Art. Bruce Lee realized this early on in his life, why is this still up for debate? The stance is weak, the power generated in the techniques are weak, and the style can't be easily adapted to a live training environment.

3. No, self-defense classes are a joke. You are never going to learn to defend yourself unless you're battle tested. Muay Thai already has this, and training like Krav Maga would offer nothing in regards to improving your skills.

 

[jcandoitbig]

First of all you never completely learn anything, so this idea that someone has to "completely learn" Wing Chun and Muay Thai to form an opinion is narrow minded. Wing Chun is garbage. I know you don't want to hear the truth that has been gnawing at the back of your mind for years, but it is garbage.

3. No, self-defense classes are a joke. You are never going to learn to defend yourself unless you're battle tested. Muay Thai already has this, and training like Krav Maga would offer nothing in regards to improving your skills.

first of all, your username is fucking awesome, my favorite show of all-time.

second of all, completely agree, nothing compares to years on the mat. and I mean YEARS

 

[TheNightmanCometh]

first of all, your username is fucking awesome, my favorite show of all-time.

second of all, completely agree, nothing compares to years on the mat. and I mean YEARS

Thank you! I absolutely love It's Always Sunny and it is in my top 5 greatest shows of all time. Agreed completely, mat time builds fighters!

 

[kenpeters8]

i teach Muay Thai.

What's your Muay Thai smoker, amateur, or pro fight record?

I compare Muay Thai to a Lambroghini. it's super fast and a high performance vehicle. but to keep it high performance requires constant maintenance. you cannot let a Lambroghini sit stagnant too long or else it performs like crap. you cannot use regular oil. it requires special fuel.

Okay, I agree with that.

I compare wing chun to a Steam Roller.

Steam roller?! Way off!!! wing chun is more like a kids' tricycle. lol

What i hate about Wing Chun - the wing chun community. ugh, i can't stand their pettiness. they are so divided and can't even get along. they agree on nothing and fight over the most idiotic things. the truth is that most couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag! The vast majority of Wing Chun practiced today is devoid of real physical and mental pressure with a non compliant individual.

You're right on this one. 99.9% of the wing chun dorks really can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. It's no wonder wing chun is the butt of the joke when it comes to fighting in the streets or in the cage.

 

[Frode Falch]