International Germany is so screwed

[Bukowski82]

Have you ever felt threatened despite all the horrible things you've said about Christianity?

There's a reason why Pim Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh are dead. There's a reason why Geert Wilders and his wife can't even go home and must live under constant police protection, as well as Salman Rushdie. There's a reason why Pamella Geller, Robert Spencer, and even Muslims like Raheel Raza get death threats all the time. Yet, when you bring this up, it's like the left wingers (here and in real life) have been classically conditioned to divert the topic into hatred towards Christianity.

Here's a brief list of fatwas put on the heads of people who have in some way offended Muslims. Where's the same list for Christians? Where are the cultural relativists at? Please explain to me how "all religions are pretty much the same" and there's no real difference between Islam and any other religion ("Even Christianity has its fanatics..."). I'm really tired of the left's constant glib defense of Islam. It tells me they care more about bashing Christianity than they do a real totalitarian ideology. I'm tired of it.

I've had people on here paint me as some sort of right wing, xenophobic, Christian Islamophobe, when I feel like I'm upholding liberal, especially classical liberalism, values more than the leftist posters on here who constantly defend Islam. I personally feel that the left here in America (and the west in general) hates the political right so much that they will take a completely contrary position from the right rather than agree that maybe, just maybe, the right is closer to the truth on this one particular issue than the left. Part of it is just hatred of the real enemy, the conservatives/Republicans/right wingers. I've even seen liberal Christians denigrate their own religion to protect Islam from "right wing bigotry." I often wonder if there might be some sort of Stockholm Syndrome also in play with a handful of people, that they'd rather bash people who aren't going to spend a lifetime trying to kill them (right wingers, Christians) than criticize someone who might actually make their lives a living hell (some Muslims). Like Sarah Silverman.

I still can't fully wrap my head around the situation in Europe, particularly Germany. I want to say that it's nothing more than wanting high birth rates to pay for future government expenditures, but even then, I can't fully rationalize what the hell is going on. It doesn't make perfect sense but I also don't want to get into irrational conspiracy theories, either.

Never once. And that's why I remain friends with posters like you, Rip, TD, etc. We may disagree completely, but there's a respect there...

And similarly, I've had people call me xenophobic for my stance against this religion. Even had people call me racist, which is hilarious considering it's a religion and not a race. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... And we should all be united in the fight against Muslim extremism, regardless of our worldviews.

To be honest, I've wondered about the Stockholm syndrome effect as well in respects to this strange phenomenon that liberals have towards Muslims, that literally represent everything contradictory to our values. And I also think there's a lot of just distaste for the Religious Right in this country, which while I understand, doesn't mean I would want to replace them with something as toxic as Islam. It's madness. I'm really disappointed in the critical thinking ability of my fellow Liberals.

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you really want to understand the difference between Christians and Muslims, look no further than the Parisian attacks. If a Christian had done that (Wouldn't happen) then Christians would have come out in droves denouncing it, being angry about it and would probably be the first in motion at the scene to help those in need and even beyond that. Muslims perpetrated this act and absolutely no one was surprised. Half the people that weren't radicals support radical acts and the rest saw this and just let out a collective 'Meh.' Not bothering to help, speak out against the perps or do really anything that would allow any reasonable person to suspect they gave even the slightest fuck about what had happened.

And that... is the difference.

 

[in the]

 

[in the]

Sorry buddy, you won't solve the riddle until you 'go there'.

I'm speaking from experience.

Please explain.

 

[Bukowski82]

Out of ignorance and because there is this perception amongst liberals that Muslims and Islam are victims and thus deserve to be supported no matter what. HuffPo is especially bad in its pro Islam and pro Muslim establishment propaganda .

I agree and this is just a recent revelation for me... Maybe I didn't just to see it, I'm not sure. But it's extremely troubling. And I think you're right. But for the Liberal culture to adopt something like Islam that is LITERALLY completely opposite in it's views is simply beyond my scope of comprehension. We advocate for women, gays, etc... They murder and rape them. And those who don't, support it. And those who don't support it, refuse to speak out against it.

Tell me... What am I missing here?

 

[in the]

I agree and this is just a recent revelation for me... Maybe I didn't just to see it, I'm not sure. But it's extremely troubling. And I think you're right. But for the Liberal culture to adopt something like Islam that is LITERALLY completely opposite in it's views is simply beyond my scope of comprehension. We advocate for women, gays, etc... They murder and rape them. And those who don't, support it. And those who don't support it, refuse to speak out against it.

Tell me... What am I missing here?

Internetaristocrat (now Mister Metokur) took down his original video I wanted to post, so I'll post this one instead, since it references his video in this one.

Keep in mind, Thunderf00t is an atheist who has taken shots at Christianity at every turn. Also, here's Chomsky mumbling/grumbling his way through postmodernism (the broader concept of today's SJWs/intersectionalists).


tl;dr - Academia

 

[IDL]

Please explain.

I mean you can sense that there is something more to it, but you are unwilling to go into the conspiratorial realm. I'm saying you have to in order to solve the puzzle.

 

[in the]

I mean you can sense that there is something more to it, but you are unwilling to go into the conspiratorial realm. I'm saying you have to in order to solve the puzzle.

I don't refuse to go into the world of conspiracy theories, as I dropped those pretenses many years ago. I have just found that parsimony is a great principle and most (not all) conspiracies are too convoluted to be a distinct possibility. But I keep asking myself, "Why Islamic immigration? Is it just birth rates?" I still feel it's the best explanation, but I can poke holes in that argument.

 

[IDL]

I don't refuse to go into the world of conspiracy theories, as I dropped those pretenses many years ago. I have just found that parsimony is a great principle and most (not all) conspiracies are too convoluted to be a distinct possibility. But I keep asking myself, "Why Islamic immigration? Is it just birth rates?" I still feel it's the best explanation, but I can poke holes in that argument.

Yes it's easy to poke holes in that argument. Considering that the stakes of the game are massive (we're talking dispossession of Europeans in their own lands leading to conflict), if it was simply about birth rates, they would be promoting family, tradition, pride, and everything else that leads to higher birth rates and stronger families. They would not be promoting cultural Marxism which puts people off against each other based on gender, turns gender roles upside down, and they would not be promoting gender confusion and homosexuality as a sacred cow.

The birth rates are being supressed to create a problem that justifies the longer term political agenda.

They are open about their desires to break down homogeneous European nation states. They just aren't open about their reasons.

 

[in the]

Never once. And that's why I remain friends with posters like you, Rip, TD, etc. We may disagree completely, but there's a respect there...

And similarly, I've had people call me xenophobic for my stance against this religion. Even had people call me racist, which is hilarious considering it's a religion and not a race. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... And we should all be united in the fight against Muslim extremism, regardless of our worldviews.

To be honest, I've wondered about the Stockholm syndrome effect as well in respects to this strange phenomenon that liberals have towards Muslims, that literally represent everything contradictory to our values. And I also think there's a lot of just distaste for the Religious Right in this country, which while I understand, doesn't mean I would want to replace them with something as toxic as Islam. It's madness. I'm really disappointed in the critical thinking ability of my fellow Liberals.

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you really want to understand the difference between Christians and Muslims, look no further than the Parisian attacks. If a Christian had done that (Wouldn't happen) then Christians would have come out in droves denouncing it, being angry about it and would probably be the first in motion at the scene to help those in need and even beyond that. Muslims perpetrated this act and absolutely no one was surprised. Half the people that weren't radicals support radical acts and the rest saw this and just let out a collective 'Meh.' Not bothering to help, speak out against the perps or do really anything that would allow any reasonable person to suspect they gave even the slightest fuck about what had happened.

And that... is the difference.

I've been saying this for awhile, and I've taken flak from leftists on this site and others. I've seen this bizarre ideology of intersectionalism/critical race theory start to take hold of the left, and it bothers me. Rational, sane, intelligent liberals I know in real life have begun in the past few years to regurgitate bullshit that stems from progressive intersectionalism. They view the political right as the true enemy, and if you are part of the straight/white/Christian heteropatriarchy, you are "privileged" and therefore targets (because they view you as being in power). Since Christianity is such a part of western cultures, and many people in power are Christians, Christianity is to blame for the slowing down of progress and must be taken down. That is why the progressive left and Muslims have come together in a really bizarre alliance. Even though their ideologies are contradictory, even more than Christianity, they want to take down Christianity's importance in western societies for different reasons - leftists because they feel Christianity blocks progress, Muslims because it isn't the true religion. That's why it's so bizarre, and really, leftists and Muslims are using each other to accomplish a much greater goal. It's a power play.

Plus, there's the whole ideology behind "privilege/power" and "underprivileged/oppressed" at play. Muslims are nowhere near the levels of power of Christians, and therefore must be uplifted.

I've tried to understand this for quite some time. A few years ago, I was like you - I might not have been as liberal as you, but I couldn't stand Republicans and still had many left-leaning beliefs. I just couldn't understand why people who said they believed in leftist principles would abandon those principles to protect and coddle an ideology that is exponentially worse than the powers they were fighting. What I wrote above are the best conclusions I can gather.

I just wish liberals out there who turn off their critical thinking skills when it comes to Islam would stop being so duplicitous. You guys and girls have to know that deep inside, the "power" you're fighting against is nowhere near as bad as the one you feel must be protected. Wake up from the slumber. Look at what was posted in certain Muslim areas in the west after 9/11:

Is that an alliance worth making? I know you hate Christianity, and I can't say some of that hatred isn't deserved. But what you are protecting is far, far worse than Christianity. Please stop rationalizing this. Please stop equating Christianity with Islam.

 

[clmetal]

You mean European countries are importing brown people with false promises of wealth and actually giving them shit jobs so the brown people's taxes will pay for white peoples retirement plans?

That's never happened before.
"Come here brown people it's great! Now work this job and pay taxes while we retire! You're part of our country l!" 20 years later another round of ethnic cleansing takes place

That's it. These people don't take anything, like welfare. Rather than benefit from the nanny state, they are working their fingers to the bone to pay for Europeans to retire. . Do u believe this?

 

[in the]

Yes it's easy to poke holes in that argument. Considering that the stakes of the game are massive (we're talking dispossession of Europeans in their own lands leading to conflict), if it was simply about birth rates, they would be promoting family, tradition, pride, and everything else that leads to higher birth rates and stronger families. They would not be promoting cultural Marxism which puts people off against each other based on gender, turns gender roles upside down, and they would not be promoting gender confusion and homosexuality as a sacred cow.

The birth rates are being supressed to create a problem that justifies the longer term political agenda.

They are open about their desires to break down homogeneous European nation states. They just aren't open about their reasons.

I'm not closed to that possibility, I just can't go to that level yet. Who is "they?" I heard about all the evil boogeymen in the shadows, but the world is more complicated than that.

 

[in the]

That's it. These people don't take anything, like welfare. Rather than benefit from the nanny state, they are working their fingers to the bone to pay for Europeans to retire. . Do u believe this?

It's absolutely true that in some places (most notably the UK), the leftists there are pro-Muslim immigration mostly for votes. Labour has shamefully whored itself out to Islam for that reason.

 

[MicroBrew]

I agree and this is just a recent revelation for me... Maybe I didn't just to see it, I'm not sure. But it's extremely troubling. And I think you're right. But for the Liberal culture to adopt something like Islam that is LITERALLY completely opposite in it's views is simply beyond my scope of comprehension. We advocate for women, gays, etc... They murder and rape them. And those who don't, support it. And those who don't support it, refuse to speak out against it.

Tell me... What am I missing here?

I am a leftist, which is well known here, and I can't understand how liberals are supporting Islam and organized Islam. I don't know how to explain it except that they (liberals) are very ignorant and too scared of being accused of being Islamophobic or racist. I also suspect that it might be a bit like an academic who sticks to a hypothesis even though evidence says otherwise, just an inability to admit one is wrong.

I used to be sympathetic to Islam but I changed over the years. I am still sympathetic to many Muslim communities and feel Muslims in general should not be treated differently from others.

Defending Muslims from unjust treatment is the right thing to do and some liberals are no doubt soft on Islam because they see it as related to defending Muslims but peddling lies on Islam's tolerance or ignoring the intolerance of oraganized Islam is plain wrong.

Look at this recent WaPo article: it claims that the Taj Mahal being a symbol of love is proof that Islam is peacefull. I was like DaFuq is this shit..

" Islam was a religion of love, and the Taj Mahal proves it "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...religion-of-love-and-the-taj-mahal-proves-it/

The Taj Mahal was a personal expression of love from Shah Jahan to his deceased wife. What people neglect to mention is that Shah Jahan wasted public resources for his own personal satisfaction, when instead he could have built public infrastructure to assist the masses.

 

[Mike]

I agree and this is just a recent revelation for me... Maybe I didn't just to see it, I'm not sure. But it's extremely troubling. And I think you're right. But for the Liberal culture to adopt something like Islam that is LITERALLY completely opposite in it's views is simply beyond my scope of comprehension. We advocate for women, gays, etc... They murder and rape them. And those who don't, support it. And those who don't support it, refuse to speak out against it.

Tell me... What am I missing here?

The narrative is that those are just a few bad apples, and don't represent the faith as a whole. Gotta say as someone completely neutral on the topic, events are making it pretty difficult to support that logic.

 

[in the]

I am a leftist, which is well known here, and I can't understand how liberals are supporting Islam and organized Islam. I don't know how to explain it except that they (liberals) are very ignorant and too scared of being accused of being Islamophobic or racist. I also suspect that it might be a bit like an academic who sticks to a hypothesis even though evidence says otherwise, just an inability to admit one is wrong.

I used to be sympathetic to Islam but I changed over the years. I am still sympathetic to many Muslim communities and feel Muslims in general should not be treated differently from others.

Defending Muslims from unjust treatment is the right thing to do and some liberals are no doubt soft on Islam because they see it as related to defending Muslims but peddling lies on Islam's tolerance or ignoring the intolerance of oraganized Islam is plain wrong.

Look at this recent WaPo article: it claims that the Taj Mahal being a symbol of love is proof that Islam is peacefull. I was like DaFuq is this shit..

" Islam was a religion of love, and the Taj Mahal proves it "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...religion-of-love-and-the-taj-mahal-proves-it/

The Taj Mahal was a personal expression of love from Shah Jahan to his deceased wife. What people neglect to mention is that Shah Jahan wasted public resources for his own personal satisfaction, when instead he could have built public infrastructure to assist the masses.

Not to mention the slaves that were mistreated and worked to death to make the Taj Mahal.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news...vilions-taj-mahal-found-align-rays-sun-002642
http://www.huffingtonpost.in/rita-banerji-/the-awfully-unromantic-ta_b_6589586.html

It's still beautiful, though.

 

[in the]

The narrative is that those are just a few bad apples, and don't represent the faith as a whole. Gotta say as someone completely neutral on the topic, events are making it pretty difficult to support that logic.

I'm just curious why they don't use that same logic when a conservative Republican does something stupid? "It's just one stupid Republican. It's not indicative of the entire Republican party."

Why just Islam with this special treatment? Which brings me back to the post I wrote above.

 

[Bald1]

The narrative is that those are just a few bad apples, and don't represent the faith as a whole. Gotta say as someone completely neutral on the topic, events are making it pretty difficult to support that logic.

Well it is just a few bad apples. Percentage wise. Too bad that the lowest estimate is 10% of the batch is rotten. The problem is even if you change that number to 1%, it amounts to 16 000 000 bad apples. That's a great many people who are opposed to our way of life.

 

[in the]

Edit - I only meant to post this for Obama's comments, and it's true they match up with the OIC, but he's not stating the same thing because he's a secret Muslim or anything like that.

 

[Mike]

I'm just curious why they don't use that same logic when a conservative Republican does something stupid? "It's just one stupid Republican. It's not indicative of the entire Republican party."

Why just Islam with this special treatment? Which brings me back to the post I wrote above.

Well tbf with many other things you can just say "hey, that one dude is just crazy. Everyone else is mostly cool". However, islam in general doesn't seem compatible with a modern liberal culture. They believe that women are inferior to men, and disputes over ideology and religious beliefs are best resolved with domination or violence. It's honestly where a lot of other religions were hundreds of years ago. I mean christians used to kill or torture people that disagreed with them too. The difference is other religions had to adapt to a changing culture, and reign some of the craziness in. It seems their religion simply hasn't had to do that.

 

[in the]

Well it is just a few bad apples. Percentage wise. Too bad that the lowest estimate is 10% of the batch is rotten. The problem is even if you change that number to 1%, it amounts to 16 000 000 bad apples. That's a great many people who are opposed to our way of life.

It's a few bad apples actually doing the violent stuff, which is good.

It's more than a few bad apples who support or won't fight against the true bad apples. And the tree has a poisonous side as well.

I get really sick of the "small minority" argument. Muslims make up 1.6 billion people on earth. Percentage wise, yes it might be a small minority, but factoring in scale is quite a different thing. 10% of bad Scientologists aren't a real threat to world peace. 10% of bad Muslims is a huge problem.

I agree that not all Muslims should be painted with the same brush. I also believe we can't be so gripped by political correctness to not even acknowledge there's a problem with Islam in western societies, though.