Jesse Ventura, Wins American Sniper Lawsuit, after 5 years of battle

[nac386]

If Kyle was a murderer, so were most soldiers who have ever killed an enemy in combat. You may disagree with the decision to invade Iraq, but referring to a man who killed people who were armed and trying to kill him or his comrades is ridiculous.

I don't think most people are calling him a murderer simply because he killed during wartime. I think it has more to do with the fact that he thoroughly enjoyed killing mass amounts of people and at times has given the impression he was willing to do so rather indiscriminately.


He was so willing and proud to kill that he even lied about mass murdering Americans for looting. If a man would be proud to lie about sniping Americans for looting, and happens to hold military records for kills overseas, it gives a lot of people the impression he was likely killing pretty much anybody he could get in his sights.

He has actually alluded to how, once he realized he was close to setting a kills record, "bad guys" just seemed to find their way into his crosshairs. Interesting way to put it.

His reputation as a bit of a psycho is all based on his own actions, words, and lies. It's 100% on him. I think he may have been a strange guy from the start, who became more twisted by committing atrocities, then became even more deranged when people celebrated him for it.

 

[KnightTemplar]

And is Einstein too ridiculous? As he famously once said "it is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing more than an act of murder''.

That is exactly what the people from Isis say and what the Nazi's said too: "It's not murder because my team did the killing". Crazy wars happen because people feel if they murder, 'it's OK, my government wanted me to; Im not morally responsible'. Murder is still murder, and wars will only stop when people start taking accountability and calling a spade a spade.

Einstein never served in the military. He never saw a battlefield at first hand. His views on warfare are as relevant as Kyle's on Theoritical Physics.

Until the human race evolves beyond violence, there will always be a need for soldiers. Fine words and sentiments didn't stop the Nazis. They were stopped because Allies were better killers. And the ISIS terrorists who carried out mass murder in Paris weren't stopped by philosophers, poets or scientists. They were stopped by elite police units who, for all intents and purposes, acted like soldiers.

We sleep safely in our beds only because rough men stand ready in the night to do violence on those who would harm us.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I don't think most people are calling him a murderer simply because he killed during wartime. I think it has more to do with the fact that he thoroughly enjoyed killing mass amounts of people and at times has given the impression he was willing to do so rather indiscriminately.


He was so willing and proud to kill that he even lied about mass murdering Americans for looting. If a man would be proud to lie about sniping Americans for looting, and happens to hold military records for kills overseas, it gives a lot of people the impression he was likely killing pretty much anybody he could get in his sights.

He has actually alluded to how, once he realized he was close to setting a kills record, "bad guys" just seemed to find their way into his crosshairs. Interesting way to put it.

His reputation as a bit of a psycho is all based on his own actions, words, and lies. It's 100% on him. I think he may have been a strange guy from the start, who became more twisted by committing atrocities, then became even more deranged when people celebrated him for it.

I've already said I found his compulsion to make up stories extremely strange. As for the rest, he was a member of an elite unit, carefully selected and highly trained to do one thing: kill the enemy. Most soldiers, marines etc who serve in such units enjoy killing. In the same way an NFL Quarterback enjoys scoring a TD, or an MMA fighter enjoys choking out or KO'ing an opponent. It's not so much the act of taking life they enjoy as the knowledge that they have faced a man trying to kill them and beaten him. Professionals will always take pride in their work.

 

[nac386]

I've already said I found his compulsion to make up stories extremely strange. As for the rest, he was a member of an elite unit, carefully selected and highly trained to do one thing: kill the enemy. Most soldiers, marines etc who serve in such units enjoy killing. In the same way an NFL Quarterback enjoys scoring a TD, or an MMA fighter enjoys choking out or KO'ing an opponent. It's not so much the act of taking life they enjoy as the knowledge that they have faced a man trying to kill them and beaten him. Professionals will always take pride in their work.

That is likely true in many cases when it comes to members of elite military units like that. I don't think Kyle is unique in his traits, I just think that his propensity to brag about it took it past the point of decency for a lot of people and brought up a lot of questions about his ethics in war.

 

[ultramanhyata]

What is your bone to pick with Jesse Ventura?

You seem awfully triggered by this situation.

I have a feeling SilVag saw the film, fell in love with Kyle based on the dreamy Bradley Cooper's portrayal of him and now simply can't accept that his man-crush was anything less than an honorable and upstanding patriot.

 

[ultramanhyata]

It's not so much the act of taking life they enjoy as the knowledge that they have faced a man trying to kill them and beaten him.

It's like a trophy hunter, sitting in his jeep, who takes down an elephant that's 500 yards away drinking at a water hole.

It was kill or be killed.

 

[KnightTemplar]

It's like a trophy hunter, sitting in his jeep, who takes down an elephant that's 500 yards away drinking at a water hole.

It was kill or be killed.

The elephant doesn't have a gun. It can't return fire. It can't plant an IED. And it's not threatning your buddies who you are tasked to protect.

But yeah, cool anology, bro

 

[ultramanhyata]

The elephant doesn't have a gun. It can't return fire. It can't plant an IED. And it's not threatning your buddies who you are tasked to protect.

But yeah, cool anology, bro

There is a difference in courage between shooting a grizzly who is charging and shooting one who is oblivious to your presence, 500 yards away.

Just like there is a difference in courage between hand to hand combat in a fox hole and shooting an unarmed soldier sitting in a chair drinking coffee half a mile away.

Sorry to break it to you.

 

[KnightTemplar]

There is a difference in courage between shooting a grizzly who is charging and shooting one who is oblivious to your presence, 500 yards away.

Just like there is a difference in courage between hand to hand combat in a fox hole and shooting an unarmed soldier sitting in a chair drinking coffee half a mile away.

Sorry to break it to you.

I didn't know Michael Moore had a Sherdog account

The whole, "Snipers are cowards" argument is complete bullshit. One of Kyle's friends, and a fellow sniper, was blinded in both eyes by return fire. Kyle himself was shot twice and survived six IED detonations.

And the majority of Kyle's kills were at considerably closer range than 500 yards. Many were well inside the effective range of an AK47. Sorry to break it to you

 

[The Merchant]

Good news.

 

[The Merchant]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/5/jesse-ventura-settles-american-sniper-lawsuit-take/




Mr. Ventura took heat from veterans — including war hero and author Marcus Luttrell — for pursuing his lawsuit after Mr. Kyle was murdered on Feb. 2, 2013, on a Texas gun range along with fellow veteran Chad Littlefield.

.

The guy who rescued Luttrell from the ditch he had crawled into was Mohammed Gulab , and his version of events don't match up with Gulab. Considering the US armies propensity to bullshit on operations maybe this guy had a motive for not wanting folk to sue folk lying about what they did in military books.

"But Gulab said a lower Naval Special Warfare Command estimate of 35 Taliban fighters killed in the firefight was still far too high, adding that villagers and US forces looked for the bodies of insurgents killed and could not find any."



"Luttrell also said that he and his group almost ran out of ammunition, and that he took 11 full rounds with him on the day of the battle.

But Gulab told Robinson that Luttrell still had 11 magazines with him when he was rescued by the villagers the next day.

Newsweek pointed out that Luttrell has previously made errors when describing the day his three fellow servicemen were slain.

He called the operation Redwing, when it was actually called Red Wings, journalist Ed Darack said in his book, Victory Point.

Luttrell's claim that the mission was to hunt down a key ally of Osama bin Laden was also proven to be wrong by Darack.

The SEALs' intended target was Ahmed Shah, the head of a local Taliban-linked group."

 

[sub_thug]

I've already said I found his compulsion to make up stories extremely strange. As for the rest, he was a member of an elite unit, carefully selected and highly trained to do one thing: kill the enemy. Most soldiers, marines etc who serve in such units enjoy killing. In the same way an NFL Quarterback enjoys scoring a TD, or an MMA fighter enjoys choking out or KO'ing an opponent. It's not so much the act of taking life they enjoy as the knowledge that they have faced a man trying to kill them and beaten him. Professionals will always take pride in their work.

That is likely true in many cases when it comes to members of elite military units like that. I don't think Kyle is unique in his traits, I just think that his propensity to brag about it took it past the point of decency for a lot of people and brought up a lot of questions about his ethics in war.

No special operator enjoys killing. All have a professional interest in being good at it, and most take pride in the satisfaction of a job well done. Guys are also happy when there is one less terrorist/insurgent on the battlefield, but no one wakes up thinking, "Man, I just can't wait to shoot someone and stand over them as they bleed out from those gunshot wounds! Sounds like a great Tuesday!" I don't personally feel bad for shooting people because the people that I shot were bad guys wishing to kill me, my comrades, and innocent people. The only satisfaction came from winning the engagement, taking no injuries to myself or my guys, and from placing my shots exactly where I wanted them to go in order to do my job.

In short, don't be armchair psychologists and try to turn us into psychotic killers. It simply isn't true, nor is it productive to separate the warriors of society from the rest of it. "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." - Thucydides

 

[sub_thug]

There is a difference in courage between shooting a grizzly who is charging and shooting one who is oblivious to your presence, 500 yards away.

Just like there is a difference in courage between hand to hand combat in a fox hole and shooting an unarmed soldier sitting in a chair drinking coffee half a mile away.

Sorry to break it to you.

This is absolutely not what snipers do on the modern battlefield. I'm not a sniper, but I've had some work with me. They are some really tough, brave dudes. Many will sit in their positions, surrounded by the enemy, for hours or even days. They are our eyes on the ground, ensuring that our targets are there on the ground. And then they cover us as we infiltrate, knowing that the shot that they take to save us will give away their position, and they might be swarmed by enemy forces from another location. I have been part of assault teams that breach buildings and engage the enemy from across the room, and I can tell you that their job is every bit as dangerous as mine ever was.

 

[nac386]

No special operator enjoys killing. All have a professional interest in being good at it, and most take pride in the satisfaction of a job well done. Guys are also happy when there is one less terrorist/insurgent on the battlefield, but no one wakes up thinking, "Man, I just can't wait to shoot someone and stand over them as they bleed out from those gunshot wounds! Sounds like a great Tuesday!" I don't personally feel bad for shooting people because the people that I shot were bad guys wishing to kill me, my comrades, and innocent people. The only satisfaction came from winning the engagement, taking no injuries to myself or my guys, and from placing my shots exactly where I wanted them to go in order to do my job.

In short, don't be armchair psychologists and try to turn us into psychotic killers. It simply isn't true, nor is it productive to separate the warriors of society from the rest of it. "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." - Thucydides

Do you also make up stories about murdering Americans to impress people?

If not, then I would not put yourself into a category with Chris Kyle.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I didn't know Michael Moore had a Sherdog account

The whole, "Snipers are cowards" argument is complete bullshit. One of Kyle's friends, and a fellow sniper, was blinded in both eyes by return fire. Kyle himself was shot twice and survived six IED detonations.

And the majority of Kyle's kills were at considerably closer range than 500 yards. Many were well inside the effective range of an AK47. Sorry to break it to you

I can see someone's got a military fetish. Killing strangers overseas for money on behalf of corporations isn't my idea of an honorable profession. But to each their own.

 

[sub_thug]

Do you also make up stories about murdering Americans to impress people?

If not, then I would not put yourself into a category with Chris Kyle.

That's SEALs for you. The average SEAL is something like 21 years old. They're just young and hungry for notoriety. Definitely not the perfect culture, but that's why most members of the military have a beef with them. I personally always wondered why a Navy unit was doing combat missions in the mountains of Afghanistan with me, but those are decisions made above my pay grade. Anyways, with a culture like that, you end up with guys looking to tell stories to make themselves look cool. That said, some of them are pretty awesome and brave dudes, and their organizational flaws do not wipe away all their organizational and individual merits.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I can see someone's got a military fetish. Killing strangers overseas for money on behalf of corporations isn't my idea of an honorable profession. But to each their own.

I can see someone has decided to admit defeat after having their weak attempts to argue their position utterly curb-stomped

As to your second point, I can think of several profession far less honourable.

 

[Black Helicopters]

@silicavaginitis got BTFO in this thread.

+++MORON ALERT+++

 

[KnightTemplar]

No special operator enjoys killing. All have a professional interest in being good at it, and most take pride in the satisfaction of a job well done. Guys are also happy when there is one less terrorist/insurgent on the battlefield, but no one wakes up thinking, "Man, I just can't wait to shoot someone and stand over them as they bleed out from those gunshot wounds! Sounds like a great Tuesday!" I don't personally feel bad for shooting people because the people that I shot were bad guys wishing to kill me, my comrades, and innocent people. The only satisfaction came from winning the engagement, taking no injuries to myself or my guys, and from placing my shots exactly where I wanted them to go in order to do my job.

In short, don't be armchair psychologists and try to turn us into psychotic killers. It simply isn't true, nor is it productive to separate the warriors of society from the rest of it. "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." - Thucydides

That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[djacobox372]

Jesse had a prime?

Kyle's worst nightmare. LOL

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure juiced out 6'4 250lb jesse would kick kyle's ass in a bar fight.