UFC 220 Main and Co-Main combined record is 62-5

rooting for stipe and volk
 
The Natural Born Runner said:
I love you bro, but he lost twice.

We don't start randomly taking losses away. St. Pierre doesn't have Greasegate wiped off the record.
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Well if you want to abide by the exact record then it's indeed 19-1 (1). If you want to start revising the record to what you think it should be, then 19-0 (2) is at least as, if not more valid than 19-2, as 214 being a NC doesn't really seem disputable given the rules.
 
Sapp said:
Well if you want to abide by the exact record then it's indeed 19-1 (1). If you want to start revising the record to what you think it should be, then 19-0 (2) is at least as, if not more valid than 19-2.
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Did Kelvin Gastelum not beat Belfort then ;)

Guess Silva didn't beat Diaz either :)

He was left unconscious, he lost.

The circumstances? A little horrible, I will admit. He still lost, and he EVEN says it himself.
 
The Natural Born Runner said:
Did Kelvin Gastelum not beat Belfort then ;)

Guess Silva didn't beat Diaz either :)

He was left unconscious, he lost.

The circumstances? A little horrible, I will admit. He still lost, and he EVEN says it himself.
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Gastelum didn't use PEDs.
I do think the Diaz fight was rightfully expunged from Silva's record as a win.

You use PEDs to win a fight and get caught, you lose that win on your record.

As Jones was not abiding by the rules of the contest he loses it as a professional win. Certainly it doesn't effect the records of either fighter.
 
Sapp said:
Gastelum didn't use PEDs.
I do think the Diaz fight was rightfully expunged from Silva's record as a win.

You use PEDs to win a fight and get caught, you lose that win on your record.

As Jones was not abiding by the rules of the contest he loses it as a professional win.
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Maybe, shmaybe,

It'll always have a cloud over it, but the man threw a head-kick and knocked dude out cold with punches.

I have a hard time giving Belfort any credit for that TRT Vitor run, and that's because of the night/day affect. You see him off roids and he looks like a decent fighter, you look at him on roids and he looks like Hercules.

Jones on the other hand was once upon a time just a kid coming up like everyone else. The guy clearly wasn't on some designer roids whilst making 10 and 10. Still back then he had all of these crazy techniques and had the cage generalship of an elite fighter. I sincerely cannot see much of a difference in Jones against Bader and Vera, than Jones against Machida and Cormier for example.

I get it, he popped - but quite frankly DC cheated to make weight against Rumble. Did it change the outcome of the fight, not in my opinion, but he should have been stripped.

Shit happens man, Cormier has beaten many roiders in other fights and there was no complaint. Cannot complain when you lose, man was paid what he deserved and only got that money because it was a super fight with Jones. It's like Mark Hunt crying about roids, you wouldn't have been crying if you won Mark. You know what you're getting into here, you cannot cry about it afterwards.
 
The Natural Born Runner said:
Maybe, shmaybe,

It'll always have a cloud over it, but the man threw a head-kick and knocked dude out cold with punches.

I have a hard time giving Belfort any credit for that TRT Vitor run, and that's because of the night/day affect. You see him off roids and he looks like a decent fighter, you look at him on roids and he looks like Hercules.

Jones on the other hand was once upon a time just a kid coming up like everyone else. The guy clearly wasn't on some designer roids whilst making 10 and 10. Still back then he had all of these crazy techniques and had the cage generalship of an elite fighter. I sincerely cannot see much of a difference in Jones against Bader and Vera, than Jones against Machida and Cormier for example.

I get it, he popped - but quite frankly DC cheated to make weight against Rumble. Did it change the outcome of the fight, not in my opinion, but he should have been stripped.

Shit happens man, Cormier has beaten many roiders in other fights and there was no complaint. Cannot complain when you lose, man was paid what he deserved and only got that money because it was a super fight with Jones. It's like Mark Hunt crying about roids, you wouldn't have been crying if you won Mark. You know what you're getting into here, you cannot cry about it afterwards.
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Jones threw a head kick and knocked DC out, yes. However, in his preparation he violated the rules of the contest. From the official standpoint, there is no dispute to be had.

If we're talking about the subjective terms of how it should be perceived, official position notwithstanding, there are other things to consider. Firstly, both fights were competitive, and in both Jones had a major cardio advantage in addition to the strength to stop DC from imposing his will in the clinch (and is the only person ever to do so). At 182 the first 2.5 rounds were very competitive (consensus 1-1), then DC visibly gassed while Jones didn't. The aspects which gave Jones the edge were largely physical (as such impacted a great deal by PEDs), and it would be difficult to argue that it was all just his fight IQ.

Briefly on the Vitor point- I think Belfort looking like such dogshit post TRT era was because he was a career steroid abuser and completely reliant. Belfort is also old, Jones has been the younger man in virtually every fight in his career. We've never gotten to see Jones recovering from PED use. Secondly the fact that you cannot see much of a difference between the Jones who beat Bader and the Jones of 214 makes it more suspicious, not less. It's clear, without substantial reason to think otherwise, that Jones used PEDs in his 214 bout. That Jones looked the same as his roided self early in his career makes him much more likely to be a systematic PED cheat than the reverse.

Then there's the fact of Jones' own behavior to testify that the PEDs were significant. Jones was coming off a suspension, with the full knowledge that getting caught here would do irreparable damage to his career. Yet, something about DC, a man a decade his senior and half a foot shorter with 20 years of athletic mileage made Jones take that extreme risk. Would Jon have done something so dangerous if he wasn't absolutely certain it was neccessary?

Yes - DC pulled a fast one on the NYSAC with his towel. I don't think that's relevant here, since even if he'd officially missed weight it wouldn't have impacted his record. Missing weight doesn't make fights NCs. The only difference would have been, as you say, that DC would forfeit the belt automatically (in addition to forfeiting a portion of his purse). He would still have beaten Rumble. Cannot be compared to a PED failure in respect to his record.

DC hasn't complained about any win or any loss, the point is moot, he's not willing to make excuses for himself. I'm complaining as a fan because I didn't get to see a fair contest.
 
Willek said:
Jon Jones would beat the shit out of all 4 of them too.
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sure he would. he would also fail his post (or pre) fight test and cry at the presser afterwards. damn, those tainted supplements, right?
 
kila2 said:
not that I am surprised hearing something like this from you, but still, why do you hate DC so much?
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I have no idea who you are but it's nice to have a fan.

DC is annoying and has too many roles for an active fighter. He's a good dude but he just annoys the piss out of me with his fake nice guy act.
 
The Natural Born Runner said:
19-2

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Clean Jones is the one who fought OSP. DC smashes and surpasses Jones as LHW GOAT.
 
Irishwhiskey119 said:
I have no idea who you are but it's nice to have a fan.

DC is annoying and has too many roles for an active fighter. He's a good dude but he just annoys the piss out of me with his fake nice guy act.
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I am so far from being anything close to be a fan of yours, but that is OK. I just want to clarify that one out to not let you live in false hopes. ;-)

Thanks for the response though, he doesn't come across as a fake nice guy to me (even you wrote he's a good dude), but I understand that his attitude just annoys you. Some people annoys me too.
 
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kila2 said:
I am so far from being anything close to be a fan of yours, but that is OK. I just want to clarify that one out to not let you live in false hopes. ;-)

Thanks for the response though, he doesn't come acroos as a fake nice guy to me (even you wrote he's a good dude), but I understand that his attitude just annoys you. Some people annoys me too.
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You'd have to love the sport and have a proper perspective on it to be a fan of me. I won't allow you to worship me with any casual fan bullshit.
 
Striker Fox said:
Clean Jones is the one who fought OSP. DC smashes and surpasses Jones as LHW GOAT.
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DC will likely never really be considered better than Jon Jones. I'm not sure how he would.
 
007 said:
Do we eliminate all of the Pride wins from back in the day?
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Nah I was just commenting that if you're in the business of adjusting DC's record, you might as well adjust the losses down.
 
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