TRUMP - and the politics of being wrong

[SBJJ]

I supplied a conclusive study by a reputable source. And then supplemented with crime data broken down by race and income as predictors. Your failure/refusal to understand does not constitute rebuttal, nor does broad appeal to support.

Re your crime data claim - no, we don't, as you're once again failing to control for immigration offenses. No idea how you still don't understand that.

Jesus. These were incarceration rates other than immigration related. THEY WERE BROKEN DOWN! And it still would not matter. Breaking the law is breaking the law

Post ONE unbiased study that shows ILLEGAL immigrants are more law abiding than citizens. Just 1!

Not cherry picked stats. Not a fucked up study by a pro immigration group

It’s easy. Just look up Illegal immigrants incarceration rates. And it’s ALL there

You just can’t admit you said something untrue. And you’ll go to ANY lengths to not admit it

 

[BangersAndSmash]

I supplied a conclusive study by a reputable source. And then supplemented with crime data broken down by race and income as predictors. Your failure/refusal to understand does not constitute rebuttal, nor does broad appeal to support.

Re your crime data claim - no, we don't, as you're once again failing to control for immigration offenses. No idea how you still don't understand that.

source: www.ihatebrownpeople.com

Look, the proof is right there. 100% of illegal immigrants in jail and prison have been accused of a crime!

 

[SBJJ]

Look, the proof is right there. 100% of illegal immigrants in jail and prison have been accused of a crime!

Well. That’s your tribe Trotsky

You guys are just as bad as Trump. You just don’t realize it because like him you don’t really believe you say shit that is not true

 

[SBJJ]

Also. I’ve done it myself. No human wants to admit they were wrong. It’s human nature. It’s why I don’t make threads about others doing it

 

[BangersAndSmash]

Well. That’s your tribe Trotsky

You guys are just as bad as Trump. You just don’t realize it because like him you don’t really believe you say shit that is not true

I said 100% of illegal immigrants in jail or prison have been accused of a crime. Are you going to tell me that's not true?

 

[TheGreatA]

Well. That’s your tribe Trotsky

You guys are just as bad as Trump. You just don’t realize it because like him you don’t really believe you say shit that is not true

I remember that conversation and I can't recall receiving a proper rebuttal to posting statistics which pointed out the enormously disproportionate number of illegal immigrants in American prison, detailed by official authorities. We are not merely talking about a slight disproportion, but a massive disproportion.

Obviously the narrative that illegal immigrants are more law-abiding than the common citizen, is complete and utter horseshit, indefensible from any perspective, in light of such facts.

The legal immigrant, yes, very much so, because they're people who have actually gone through the legal process filtering out the criminal and hostile elements. Somehow defending this process has become a call for racism and bigotry, in the irrational and polarized political environment of today, when to any neutral observer it is the "common sense" thing to do.

 

[SBJJ]

I remember that conversation and I can't recall receiving a proper rebuttal to posting statistics which pointed out the enormously disproportionate number of illegal immigrants in American prison, detailed by official authorities.

Obviously the narrative that illegal immigrants are more law-abiding than the common citizen, is complete and utter horseshit, indefensible from any perspective.

The legal immigrant, yes, very much so, because they're people who have actually gone through the legal process filtering out the criminal and hostile elements.

Yup. As someone who has worked in largely immigrant areas in Orange County CA. I can from experience state that LEGAL immigrants are probably the most Law Abiding individuals in all of America

It’s funny he still can not just admit he was wrong. But whatever, we all hate to admit when we are wrong. I do not exclude myself. The fact some posters in here are acting as if they’ve never done this is funny

 

[TheGreatA]

Yup. As someone who has worked in largely immigrant areas in Orange County CA. I can from experience state that LEGAL immigrants are probably the most Law Abiding individuals in all of America

It’s funny he still can not just admit he was wrong. But whatever, we all hate to admit when we are wrong. I do not exclude myself. The fact some posters in here are acting as if they’ve never done this is funny

I suppose, in the end, someone's version of the truth is in fact not the actual truth, no matter how strongly they may insist that it is.

I've been wrong plenty. And yes, it can be frustrating to be wrong, or to make a mistake. But it won't sting half as hard, as long as you don't subscribe to an "ideology" before checking all of the facts. What truly prevents us from accepting our mistakes and learning from them, is that we've bought a dogmatic world-view that's too precious to give up on, even when proven to be misguided and irrational.

Ego is always involved, but you cannot let your ego restrain your intelligence. To be pointed for a fool is no great disgrace, to stay a fool is a much worse one.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Obviously the narrative that illegal immigrants are more law-abiding than the common citizen, is complete and utter horseshit, indefensible from any perspective, in light of such facts.

It's not a narrative, which is a collection of information that tells a story. It's a simple observation, that most studies that have looked into the issue have made. Summary here:

https://www.npr.org /2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime

Remove the space.

It’s funny he still can not just admit he was wrong.

Well, considering the fact that any attempt to check whether he's wrong leads to the conclusion that he was not wrong, you can understand his reluctance, can't you? In fact, this seems to be more about *you* being unwilling to admit your error in the face of mountains of evidence that you did, in fact, make an error.

 

[SBJJ]

I suppose, in the end, someone's version of the truth is in fact not the actual truth, no matter how strongly they may insist that it is.

I've been wrong plenty. And yes, it can be frustrating to be wrong, or to make a mistake. But it won't sting half as hard, as long as you don't subscribe to an "ideology" before checking all of the facts. What truly prevents us from accepting our mistakes and learning from them, is that we've bought a dogmatic world-view that's too precious to give up on, even when proven to be misguided and irrational.

Ego is always involved, but you cannot let your ego restrain your intelligence. To be pointed for a fool is no great disgrace, to stay a fool is a much worse one.

Agree. Just easier said than done.

I think it’s just best not to accuse others of what we all do

Trump lies. We get it. He hates to admit it. We get it.

 

[SBJJ]

It's not a narrative, which is a collection of information that tells a story. It's a simple observation, that most studies that have looked into the issue have made. Summary here:

https://www.npr.org /2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime

Remove the space.



Well, considering the fact that any attempt to check whether he's wrong leads to the conclusion that he was not wrong, you can understand his reluctance, can't you? In fact, this seems to be more about *you* being unwilling to admit your error in the face of mountains of evidence that you did, in fact, make an error.

Oh boy. Could have seen this coming

 

[SBJJ]

It's not a narrative, which is a collection of information that tells a story. It's a simple observation, that most studies that have looked into the issue have made. Summary here:

https://www.npr.org /2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime

Remove the space.



Well, considering the fact that any attempt to check whether he's wrong leads to the conclusion that he was not wrong, you can understand his reluctance, can't you? In fact, this seems to be more about *you* being unwilling to admit your error in the face of mountains of evidence that you did, in fact, make an error.

Oh boy

#1. Post a proper link

#2. What does “ More Illegal immigration does not increase violent crime” even mean

#3. What he asserted is NOT what you are even TRYING to argue

 

[Jack V Savage]

Oh boy

#1. Post a proper link

#2. What does “ More Illegal immigration does not increase violent crime” even mean

#3. What he asserted is NOT what you are even TRYING to argue

1. I posted a proper link. And you can look at the links within. If you're aware of other attempts to answer the question, post them.

2. Read the link.

3. I'm commenting on the posts I responded to. The issue here is that he posted something that is supported by the available evidence, and you want him to admit he was wrong despite posting no reason that anyone should question the evidence. I think if you weren't so fantatically tribalistic, you'd be able to acknowledge that that is an unreasonable request.

 

[SBJJ]

1. I posted a proper link. And you can look at the links within. If you're aware of other attempts to answer the question, post them.

2. Read the link.

3. I'm commenting on the posts I responded to. The issue here is that he posted something that is supported by the available evidence, and you want him to admit he was wrong despite posting no reason that anyone should question the evidence. I think if you weren't so fantatically tribalistic, you'd be able to acknowledge that that is an unreasonable request.

What you are arguing is NOT what he even said. You literally don’t even know what he posted in a separate thread

Which explains why you are arguing something COMPLETELY different. But your tribal instincts forced you into trying to defend him

 

[SBJJ]

1. I posted a proper link. And you can look at the links within. If you're aware of other attempts to answer the question, post them.

2. Read the link.

3. I'm commenting on the posts I responded to. The issue here is that he posted something that is supported by the available evidence, and you want him to admit he was wrong despite posting no reason that anyone should question the evidence. I think if you weren't so fantatically tribalistic, you'd be able to acknowledge that that is an unreasonable request.

Try this

Post ONE unbiased study that shows illegal immigrants are more law abiding than citizens

Because actual incarceration stats show that you and him are EPICALLY HILARIOUSLY wrong

 

[Jack V Savage]

Try this

Post ONE unbiased study that shows illegal immigrants are more law abiding than citizens

I posted a link to four, including one you're already discussing.

You can continue whining about it all you want, but my point is simple: You're asking him to retract his point even though the evidence supports it because you think the evidence doesn't jibe with your gut feeling about the issue. Given that gut feeling varies, that is an unreasonable request. If you want to get someone else to admit that you're right, you're better off looking for evidence that contradicts the evidence that shows that you're wrong.

 

[SBJJ]

I posted a link to four, including one you're already discussing.

You can continue whining about it all you want, but my point is simple: You're asking him to retract his point even though the evidence supports it because you think the evidence doesn't jibe with your gut feeling about the issue. Given that gut feeling varies, that is an unreasonable request. If you want to get someone else to admit that you're right, you're better off looking for evidence that contradicts the evidence that shows that you're wrong.

Your link does not work

Post an unbiased study that shows ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE MORE LAW ABIDING than Citizens. It’s simple

ALL incarceration stats(only real evidence we have) shows that you are HILARIOUSLY wrong

You need something to actually counter the ACTUAL stats we have.

But to be honest the actual incarceration rates/stats are clear evidence you are wrong

So here you are pulling a Trump even when the actual stats show you are wrong. You really have this in common with Trump

 

[SBJJ]

This is funny

Let’s try this. Post the incarceration rates of illegal immigrants showing that they are less likely to commit a crime compared to a citizen

 

[Jack V Savage]

Your link does not work

Remove the space, as I told you to (NPR links get screwed up with no space).

So here you are pulling a Trump even when the actual stats show you are wrong. You really have this in common with Trump

You are very confused, son. You are insisting that Trotsky is wrong about something and that he's refusing to admit it. I posted a link to some studies that all show he's right, and telling you that it's reasonable for him not to admit he's wrong when all the evidence we have shows he's right. One wonders what it would take for you to admit your error here.

 

[SBJJ]

Remove the space, as I told you to (NPR links get screwed up with no space).



You are very confused, son. You are insisting that Trotsky is wrong about something and that he's refusing to admit it. I posted a link to some studies that all show he's right, and telling you that it's reasonable for him not to admit he's wrong when all the evidence we have shows he's right. One wonders what it would take for you to admit your error here.

“More illegal immigration doesn’t equal more violent crime” is not good enough against actual stats

And honestly it is NOT what Trotsky said in the other thread. Sadly, You seem to think he said something he did not say

I’ll have to take ACTUAL stats over these studies you can’t even seem to post properly. Especially when the headline of your link is NOT what is being argued to begin with

I can Understand your tribal instinct is to defend the tribe. But for future reference it would be wise to actually know what is being argued before you jump in

Once again. Feel free to post incarceration rates that show illegal immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for crimes. We could always bet on what the actual incarceration stats show. You up for it?