STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Clippy]

That's great bud... I enjoy talking about other stuff with you more anyway. You're actually the one that pops in talking sh*t all the time anyway... so if you're done with that then I totally support your decision. We'll probably become best friends n stuff. Like peas & carrots.

By the way... i am in a perpetual cycle of "un-twisting" thingz... not the other way around.

I'm also not "defending" anything. I take what someone says & I give my point of view. I often match the level of aggression the person I'm communicating with projects on to me... but that is just giving them a taste of their own medicine. I consider it a public service. These levelz of aggression cannot run rampant & un-checked.

 

[minute bull]

Let's go with what you're saying, and say that TFA gave TLJ a bad set up--well, what was stopping TLJ from taking the series where it wanted to go? How was TFA hindering TLJ?

I thought TFA did TLJ a favor by leaving it open.

It was more like TFA's mouth wrote a check no one's ass could have cash. TLJ gets the heat because it dared to step up and honor those danglers.

Case in point:

The best example is the Jedi Mind trick. This is shown throughout the SW universe as not an easy thing to do.

It's clear none of you appreciate how difficult TFA made things, and I'd be saying that still even if people weren't bringing up TFA sins in the TLJ threads. But that wide open space wasn't as open as you seem to claim it is. Let me put it this way, TFA had no plot points worth pursuing. There is no great explanation for Luke secreting himself for years, other than he was wrestling with his inner Dark Side. No lineage of Rey's would suffice to create more than a nostalgic nod, and being the daughter of Someone is not a much more compelling reason for being Force adept than Girl Forced To Survive On Wits and Skills Alone (all of which were tested and defeated). Snoke was on great display, his history was secondary to what he did onscreen. Phasma gets too much credit for being a disappointment, I don't know why a silver suit warrants more attention but hey she was shiny. Blah blah blah Clip is tired...

There should be one thing clear when you complain about the direction of this franchise, and as you alleviate yourself from the concern of lingering plot points and even that dread word canon: you want a new direction, one untied from the current, and now with no dangling strings left from TFA to hinder, TLJ has made the new direction possible and, ironically, deeply desired.

I cannot argue that you found TLJ boring. All I can say is I know it isn't.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

You take hatred towards a random movie like someone killed your dog

I have disagreements about many movies but nothing reaches the lengths of Last Jedi discussion

Overly personal over a 2 hour film

No need for it

Trying to force people to like something they hate and "life coaching" people

good grief Charley brown

I didn't set out to be a life coach... it's just the roll that has naturally been given to me as the resistance sayz all manner of strange things.

TLJ is a unique & very amplified discussion because of the historical validity of the franchise & being basically a physicological icon in people's minds for over 40 years. I figure that's why the resistance is so persistant. It's a labor of love that they are so distraught over TLJ subverting their expectations.

I am here to help every last one of you lost souls & help you hold on until the actual finale... which all of you seem to have forgotten is still coming.

I BELIEVE IN YOU!

I will help you through these hard times until you see the whole story & then will slip out an untold hero once you realize how it all fits into the whole & all your self driven torment waz all unfounded & misunderstood.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a hero. I'll go ahead & acknowledge that.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

 

[Clippy]

 

[Peteyandjia]

They should do a Star Wars/Female Ghostbusters crossover next.

That's like mixing AIDS with cancer.

It might just be crazy enough to work

 

[90 50]

I've pretty much re-run the entire grip field today... even though I've done this several times before... so if you just read all my responses from today all your questions will be answered regarding the "stuff like that" you're referring to. I fielded this particular question earlier as well & copied it here. I think it's very understandable.

You in a way made our points for us, in the gripes a lot of us have.

At no point in the Movie did it tell us that Rey learned all that shit when she was inside Kylo’s mind.

That’s the whole point isn’t it? The Novelization was written later to help fill in the gaps and holes, that a lot of people didn’t like about the movie.

So while we are arguing about things we do not like about the movie, bringing up the later supporting documentation does not help us like the holes we see in the movie itself.


On your points about Rian and JJ and the story, I’ve watched many interviews with Daisy’s, JJ and Rian all talking about these things and Hamill some as well but most of his are just salty from being pissed on.

A little bit later when I can get on my PC instead of my phone I’ll revisit this and put together for you what I have seen, and also rewatch and reread it myself(since it has been some time) and we can discuss from there.

Just posting tid bits now I don’t think would put it together correctly.

As far as the Jedi order stuff I’m sure they had that in mind, it’s been the direction I think they’ve been moving with as shown from some episodes in Rebels and clone wars.

That I’m sure was there, no snoke backstory, no parents for Rey and no reason to have visions and the light saber calling her I think were not.

And probubaly not luke sucking sea cow tits either. Etc.

 

[90 50]

It was more like TFA's mouth wrote a check no one's ass could have cash. TLJ gets the heat because it dared to step up and honor those danglers.

Case in point:

It's clear none of you appreciate how difficult TFA made things, and I'd be saying that still even if people weren't bringing up TFA sins in the TLJ threads. But that wide open space wasn't as open as you seem to claim it is. Let me put it this way, TFA had no plot points worth pursuing. There is no great explanation for Luke secreting himself for years, other than he was wrestling with his inner Dark Side. No lineage of Rey's would suffice to create more than a nostalgic nod, and being the daughter of Someone is not a much more compelling reason for being Force adept than Girl Forced To Survive On Wits and Skills Alone (all of which were tested and defeated). Snoke was on great display, his history was secondary to what he did onscreen. Phasma gets too much credit for being a disappointment, I don't know why a silver suit warrants more attention but hey she was shiny. Blah blah blah Clip is tired...

There should be one thing clear when you complain about the direction of this franchise, and as you alleviate yourself from the concern of lingering plot points and even that dread word canon: you want a new direction, one untied from the current, and now with no dangling strings left from TFA to hinder, TLJ has made the new direction possible and, ironically, deeply desired.

I cannot argue that you found TLJ boring. All I can say is I know it isn't.

As I’ve discussed before, it wasn’t so much taking a new direction, that would be fine and if done right appreciated, it’s that TLJ, knocks down everything Abrams set up, that we were excited to find out about while at the same time leaving us nothing to look forward to from here.

It’s just a vast emptiness, like we are starting over with 7 again, all new direction with nothing to look forward to yet, besides the fact that we just don’t know.

 

[minute bull]

At no point in the Movie did it tell us that Rey learned all that shit when she was inside Kylo’s mind.

It does in TFA. Rey doesn't do the mind trick until she had it done on her. She learns how to read minds from Kylo. He even tells her not to be afraid of the ability as he senses it, which is his error because as that door is opened, he says, she grows stronger as she tests herself. I haven't read a single novel on this, not even MW's missives, but it's Kylo Ren who unwittingly trains Rey. It was the best kind of training, with the highest stakes and no room for error on her part. The bad part is he used Sith principles. He showed her the path to the Force through emotion and passion. She therefore is Chaotic Good, the most appealing of D&D alignments because of the lack of rules.

PS: it was Force ghosts guiding her visions and opening doors and shit.

 

[Eusung]

Saying the Dark side/First Order thing continuing beyond ROTJ caused Luke to go all self-defeatist and exile himself is just plain false.

The opening crawl of TFA:

"Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, The Force Order has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, is destroyed"

So basically this makes TLJ even worse. Why was Snoke and TFO so threatened by such a broken Luke? It just makes the motives of both TFO and the Resistance look stupid.

In TFA it was implied Luke set out to go to the Jedi temple to gain something...

I was hoping that the twist would be that Luke did not want to abandon the fight...but more that he felt he needed to because he needed something at the Jedi Temple to help him fight against Snoke.

Would have also been cool if the Knights of Ren were also a threat to Luke.

Ugh, so many cool missed opportunities.

 

[minute bull]

but more that he felt he needed to because he needed something at the Jedi Temple to help him fight against Snoke.

It was his mojo.

 

[Eusung]

My wishful thinking:

Rey arrives on the island:

Luke: Rey....I almost lost hope...I've been stranded here for so many years.
Rey: You know me???
Luke: ....we need to talk..but let's get off this island ASAP.

Then it turns out Luke trained her ever since she was just a toddler abandoned by her parents...before even establishing his Jedi academy (hence why she and Kylo never met)

...then shit happens...Luke feels she is in danger so he hides her on Jakku...and that flashback of her crying as a little girl is her actually looking at Luke leaving her.

So Luke hid her on Jakku like Kenobi hid Luke on Tattooine.

 

[Clippy]

My wishful thinking:

Rey arrives on the island:

Luke: Rey....?
Rey: You know me???

Then it turns out Luke trained her ever since she was just a toddler abandoned by her parents...before even establishing his Jedi academy (hence why she and Kylo never met)

...then shit happens...Luke feels she is in danger so he hides her on Jakku...and that flashback of her crying as a little girl is her actually looking at Luke leaving her.

So Luke hid her on Jakku like Kenobi hid Luke on Tattooine.

I fuckin love that man

 

[Eusung]

I fuckin love that man

I edited more to include Luke being all like.."What took so long? Did you guys not get the map I left? I've been stranded here forever!"

 

[minute bull]

My wishful thinking:

Rey arrives on the island:

Luke: Rey....I almost lost hope...I've been stranded here for so many years.
Rey: You know me???
Luke: ....we need to talk..but let's get off this island ASAP.

Then it turns out Luke trained her ever since she was just a toddler abandoned by her parents...before even establishing his Jedi academy (hence why she and Kylo never met)

...then shit happens...Luke feels she is in danger so he hides her on Jakku...and that flashback of her crying as a little girl is her actually looking at Luke leaving her.

So Luke hid her on Jakku like Kenobi hid Luke on Tattooine.

That's a nice emotional sentiment, just like Leia hugging Rey at the end of TFA. Similarly, it doesn't withstand scrutiny because even changing all the other details it's not believable that Luke couldn't leave a planet unless he didn't want to.

Here's the thing I never can understand. What the hell is the deal with the map? Luke didn't leave it.

 

[EvilDDS]

That's a nice emotional sentiment, just like Leia hugging Rey at the end of TFA. Similarly, it doesn't withstand scrutiny because even changing all the other details it's not believable that Luke couldn't leave a planet unless he didn't want to.

Here's the thing I never can understand. What the hell is the deal with the map? Luke didn't leave it.

This is true. The Poe comic shows this, Lor San Tekka didn’t have it, they asked him for info, and he had to go search himself. It gets hazy for me trying to figure it out

 

[TrueBias]

My wishful thinking:

Rey arrives on the island:

Luke: Rey....I almost lost hope...I've been stranded here for so many years.
Rey: You know me???
Luke: ....we need to talk..but let's get off this island ASAP.

Then it turns out Luke trained her ever since she was just a toddler abandoned by her parents...before even establishing his Jedi academy (hence why she and Kylo never met)

...then shit happens...Luke feels she is in danger so he hides her on Jakku...and that flashback of her crying as a little girl is her actually looking at Luke leaving her.

So Luke hid her on Jakku like Kenobi hid Luke on Tattooine.

Simple. But effective. Honestly, I'd hate it at the time, but right now, id love that.

How do you explain her not remembering

 

[Eusung]

That's a nice emotional sentiment, just like Leia hugging Rey at the end of TFA. Similarly, it doesn't withstand scrutiny because even changing all the other details it's not believable that Luke couldn't leave a planet unless he didn't want to.

Here's the thing I never can understand. What the hell is the deal with the map? Luke didn't leave it.

It would make Leia hugging Rey more fitting.

As for people scrutinizing Luke not being able to leave a planet being unbelievable....ah let's just make up some shenanigans I mean at this point...let's face it JJ wrote this thing into a corner (and I like TFA...but it's one of my nitpicks).

"Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absense, TFO has emerged"....ugh..when I read that my first though damnit Luke...I hope you had a damn good reason or that you did not voluntarily just vanish

 

[Mike]

All complaints about TLJ aside, my biggest problem is still the fact that it doesn't set up anything compelling for part three. Snoke is dead, Phasma is dead, I guess the few remaining "rebels" will fight red shirts from the order, and Rey and Ren will fight again?

Woo...... yay? I can't remember ever watching a part two of a trilogy that set up nothing for part 3.

 

[moreorless87]

It was more like TFA's mouth wrote a check no one's ass could have cash. TLJ gets the heat because it dared to step up and honor those danglers.

Case in point:

It's clear none of you appreciate how difficult TFA made things, and I'd be saying that still even if people weren't bringing up TFA sins in the TLJ threads. But that wide open space wasn't as open as you seem to claim it is. Let me put it this way, TFA had no plot points worth pursuing. There is no great explanation for Luke secreting himself for years, other than he was wrestling with his inner Dark Side. No lineage of Rey's would suffice to create more than a nostalgic nod, and being the daughter of Someone is not a much more compelling reason for being Force adept than Girl Forced To Survive On Wits and Skills Alone (all of which were tested and defeated). Snoke was on great display, his history was secondary to what he did onscreen. Phasma gets too much credit for being a disappointment, I don't know why a silver suit warrants more attention but hey she was shiny. Blah blah blah Clip is tired...

There should be one thing clear when you complain about the direction of this franchise, and as you alleviate yourself from the concern of lingering plot points and even that dread word canon: you want a new direction, one untied from the current, and now with no dangling strings left from TFA to hinder, TLJ has made the new direction possible and, ironically, deeply desired.

I cannot argue that you found TLJ boring. All I can say is I know it isn't.

I'd certainly agree TFA was a terrible comeback film, ultimately it was really a film that abdicated much of the actual work of setting up a trilogy in the fashion ANH did as well as introducing Abrams cartoonish formula that's an even worse fit than it was for Trek. That film is just a classic example of cheap lazy writing kicking the can down the road, doesn't matter that it setup a load of fan theories, it was still massively lacking in substance.

To be fair to it Last Jedi does actually have some ambition and parts of it(Rey/Kylo/Snoke) are done pretty well, but for me it flounders on both the weak setup and questionable tone introduced by TFA plus an underwritten/over cluttered plot with a lot of nonsense on the rebel side of the story and then backs down from its own concept of Reylo.

20 years from now people are going to be scratching their heads at the idea JJ Abrams was being compared to someone like Spielberg and not Michael Bay.