'I shot a whole family of baboons'

[Quipling]

Saw thread title, was very afraid this was a horribly racist serial killer

Every trophy/safari/exotic hunting thread goes the same way. Personally, I'm no fan of the "hunters" as there's no challenge in it, but if the hunting is done legally it is good for the local economy, species aren't hunted in excess, and the meat is consumed by the poor so I support the local governments managing their limited resources as they see best. Biggest issue is when the gov conservation branch becomes corrupt and issues more licenses then they should to pocket the $$$

Yeah, I think we had a similar discussion in the cecil-the-lion thread. The other issue is keeping the permit dollars in the country. Namibia has some problems with that and with over permitting, but they're not the worst offender.


Still, it is strange to me when people tout the "legality" of these hunts as a defense as if bribery and over-permitting aren't real. At least check to see if this is one of those instances.

 

[MicroBrew]

Whats wrong with hunting for fun

If you have to ask, then you won't get it...

 

[Quipling]

I love hunting and fishing. The wonder of nature, quality time with your family, fresh wild meat and endless lessons to be learned in the wild.

Last but not least, the thrill of the kill. I'm not sure about rifle hunting because I only use a bow, but you get a huge rush when you finally get that animal in range and hopefully in your sites. Despite what most people here think, killing a wild animal with a bow is not easy, and there are dozens of ways to fuck up a shot.

A lot of times they know something is out of place and they are on high alrert, you can see, hear, and smell their emotion when you are within bow range. A really incredible feeling to get that close to these creatures.

That being said, what the fuck does a giraffe taste like? How about a fucking baboon? Lion? I guess if someone told me they were as tasty as venison or fresh caught fish and I could hunt them without going bankrupt I'd give it a try, but this guys looks like he's killing shit just for the hell of it.

Giraffe is fine (I had it before it was listed as threatened). It's just a big ungulate and probably wouldn't be that strange to you since you've had venison.

I'm told that baboon tastes pretty bad. I know that it's not a favored bushmeat.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Didn't realize people hunted giraffe

 

[oldshadow]

I'm not sure why you would want to shoot them unless they were pest doing damage or needed to be culled for population control.

But if it's done legally and for conservation I don't have a problem with it.

Not interested in that type of hunting but there are good reason for it.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Aren’t all gods creations?

Aren't they what? What you're trying to communicate here is not clear.

I would say what you are doing is making up excuses so you can sleep well at night knowing you killed an animal. I’m a nihilist so I don’t inherently care about any life but to shoot a family of baboons? That’s pretty unnecessary and stupid

You claim to not care, yet in the very next sentence you contradict that statement.

Are you willing to accept the possibility that this has a deeper psychological meaning for you than you're fully aware of?

Also to say animals acts are involuntary shows your understanding on the matter

Animals act upon an automatic instinct. They have no ability to build, or expand their knowledge. When the extent of their instinctual knowledge fails them, they die.

Your desire to see "more" in an animal is pure anthropomorphism.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

If you have to ask, then you won't get it...

All hunting is done for fun. Literally no one has to supplement their meat supply by hunting because of cost..

 

[zebby23]

Aren't they what? What you're trying to communicate here is not clear.


You claim to not care, yet in the very next sentence you contradict that statement.

Are you willing to accept the possibility that this has a deeper psychological meaning for you than you're fully aware of?


Animals act upon an automatic instinct. They have no ability to build, or expand their knowledge. When the extent of their instinctual knowledge fails them, they die.

Your desire to see "more" in an animal is pure anthropomorphism.

lol you are wrong I think in every point you are trying to make.

1. Clearly I meant, aren't we all gods creations? (I know we aren't but you think we are) how can you reconcile killing gods creations for no reason really? Would Jesus approve of this?

2. As a nihilist I see no intrinsic value in any life. Humans have no more value than baboons. I know you don't like this but it's true. With that being said, I don't really care as the baboons lives hold no value really in the context of the universe yet it's still a stupid move by the parameters set up by society as a family bond was likely broken.

3. Animals and humans alike act on what you call, "automatic instinct". Humans have evolved a conscience and have higher levels of thinking and retaining information but it doesn't mean much in the terms we are discussing. The idea that animals cannot ascertain and build knowledge is utter nonsense.

 

[Islam Imamate]

What's wrong with saying he is an asshole for killing animals for fun?
When people act like assholes in a very public manner, social media sometimes gets on the case , resulting in the asshole losing their job.

Calling him an asshole is fine, I just don't think he should lose his job over it. I was never a fan of the social media mob that thirsts for people's unemployment and I haven't changed my mind when it comes to this case.

 

[MicroBrew]

All hunting is done for fun. Literally no one has to supplement their meat supply by hunting because of cost..

If you are talking about hunting in North America, then sure it is fun to a degree but also because people in certain locales find it a free source of quality meat. I have friends who hunt , and sure it is partly because they like it but also because they see it as free quality meat for consumption. They don't shoot animals just for jollies only, they do eat them and give them to friends and family. As long as you are eating the meat , then it isn't wanton killing for the sake of killing. Culling is also ok if the species has grown too large that it is causing damage to other species and the environment.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yeah, im pretty pissed about this.

Giraffes and leopards are threatened.

Leopards in particular are hard to see on safari because they're nocturnal and people-shy.

Fair enough

Baboons are cunts but killing "an entire family" strikes me as gratuitous. With a bow and arrow no less.

I don't see how hunting with a bow is much worse than with a gun. They're small animals and the bow is more of a challenge, if anything I think I respect bow hunters more.

And people are defending it on the basis that it wasn't against the law in an African country. Its the same defense that got posted for the Zimbabwe hunts by the same people. I

That said, there's actually a point here: Namibia has corruption problems but its trophy hunting permit system is decent compared to most African countries. Many of the benefits don't stay in the country and permits are easier to get than they should be, but some of the dollars stay local and go towards conservancy. Unlike, e.g. Zimbabwe, where it's none.

Excerpt from natgeo article on trophy hunting in Africa - this is the bit on Namibia:

See this is the kind of argument I was expecting, about how corrupt or not corrupt the legal system around trophy hunting is over there. If he was exploiting a corrupt country to engage in unethical hunting practices I think that would be a fair basis to judge him on.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Still, it is strange to me when people tout the "legality" of these hunts as a defense as if bribery and over-permitting aren't real. At least check to see if this is one of those instances.

Twofold argument. The legally defense is a valid one as normally the exotic hunting bashers are attacking the fact that the majestic animal was killed at all. Their argument doesn't have anything to do with the legal corruption side of thing, so I really don't feel like spending my time looking all that up for exactly which countries are the problems.

If someone were to create a thread off some investigation journalism piece about which countries have successful mutual benefiting foreign hunting programs, and which are overtaken by corrupt politicians and hurting the enviornment with no beneficial money coming in, then that would be a great thread and get a lot better responses and opinions from the pro hunting crowd

I'm sitting on a shuttle bus from the airport back to my hometown. Might actually do some digging and see what I can find

Edit: If you were curious @Quipling: Tanzania, Mozambique and Zimbabwe I've found via proper studies as having alarming amounts of corruption within their Trophy hunting governmental divisions. Other African countries, the hunting seems to favor conservation as the amount of land protected for wildlife to save for hunting far exceeds any other form of protected land from human expansion, and "bush meat poaching" becomes the #1 killer of protected species thus that the amount allocated for trophy hunting becomes a drop in the bucket.

So those 3 countries I'll keep an eye out for if next time the evil hunter threads involves that. This guy came from Nahimbia where Baboons are considered a nuisance animal, much like Midwest farmers see raccoons and coyotes. He gets a pass on the killing of them for me, but a "play stupid games" award for thinking sending an email to 100 people with the pictures of the baboons., including a baby one, was a good idea. Bad look for a wildlife management officer who should have known better, and agency 100% in their right to terminate him to protect their image.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

If you’ve driven in a car, you’ve committed mass genocide against bugs. If you’ve eaten corn or wheat products, you’ve contributed to the mass slaughter of rabbits, field mice, ground nesting birds, insects, deer fawn, lizards and snakes. If you live in a city, you can do so because humans have thinned out the wild animal population to where humans can inhabit that area. Spare me the righteous indignation. Humans are the Supreme species on earth, every other organism lives at our pleasure.

“things die anyways, so i might as well do exactly as i want”
the worst argument, thought out to zero steps ahead of the first thought that went through your head.
Oh, God damn it, you were right! Now, I have been enlightened! While typing this I accidentally squished an ant with my chair leg, realized that I now have carte blanche on the animal kingdom, and am going to machete all the dogs in the neighbourhood as soon as i’m done this message!
Thanks for the help!

 

[MicroBrew]

Calling him an asshole is fine, I just don't think he should lose his job over it. I was never a fan of the social media mob that thirsts for people's unemployment and I haven't changed my mind when it comes to this case.

So you don't think it is right for all those Beckys to lose their job? Or that lawyer guy in New York who berated the Spanish speaking staff at a restaurant?
Sometimes losing their job is the only punishment they get, cause technically they haven't done anything illegal.

I am not "thristing" for him to get fired, if that implies I am engaging in activism like sending messages to his employer or asking people to write in to his employer or signing onto an online letter asking his employer to fire him etc.. My reaction is: I just wouldn't care if he lost his job and feel he got his comeuppance.

 

[Islam Imamate]

So you don't think it is right for all those Beckys to lose their job? Or that lawyer guy in New York who berated the Spanish speaking staff at a restaurant?
Sometimes losing their job is the only punishment they get, cause technically they haven't done anything illegal.

Depends on what they did exactly but generally no, I don't like to see people lose their jobs like that.

I am not "thristing" for him to get fired, if that implies I am engaging in activism like sending messages to his employer or asking people to write in to his employer or signing onto an online letter asking his employer to fire him etc.. My reaction is: I just wouldn't care if he lost his job and feel he got his comeuppance.

And I'm the opposite, I don't like people losing their jobs because a random internet mob was crying for it.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I was only ever around baboons once, but I remember my guide saying pretty much this. Baboons are dangerous and attack people and other animal just because they are assholes. He said he saw baboons beat a lion to death.

As far as hunting baboons goes, I am not a hunter and took the man's words to mean be wary of baboons, not indiscriminately slaughter baboons. But so long as hunting is controlled and limited, I have no beef with it.

I've even heard stories of them stealing purses and in one case a baby. Wouldn't want to be around them without a gun or something.

 

[trac209]

Sooner or later it will come to this.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

lol you are wrong I think in every point you are trying to make.

I'm afraid that's projection on your part.

1. Clearly I meant, aren't we all gods creations? (I know we aren't but you think we are) how can you reconcile killing gods creations for no reason really? Would Jesus approve of this?

Is your argument that Jesus Christ, the good fisherman himself, would somehow object to hunting and fishing practices?

It's always fun to watch non-believers stumble and fall when they try to use scripture to moralize against an actual believer.

You should try to thumb through the Bible at least once before you try to use it as an ex-post-facto justification for what you want it to say.

2. a family bond was likely broken.

This is you anthropomorphizing again. At this point, I'm not sure you're even consciously aware of the fact that you're doing it.

3. Animals and humans alike act on what you call, "automatic instinct". Humans have evolved a conscience and have higher levels of thinking and retaining information but it doesn't mean much in the terms we are discussing. The idea that animals cannot ascertain and build knowledge is utter nonsense.

Animals act upon an automatic instinct.

You call this notion "nonsense", yet you're completely unable to disprove it.

Humans have the ability to expand their knowledge far beyond any automatic instinct.

This wasn't achieved by an "instinct" for tool making and knowledge retention:


Volitional consciousness was required to achieve this feat.

Are you willing to accept the possibility that your stance is an incorrect one?

 

[bushman505]

If caring about living things makes me a shitty human than I guess I am. Killing animals to make your self feel better about your bum life makes you a shitty human.

I wonder if the locals generally eat what they kill. Do you think this guy ate the baboons?

Do you think the locals didn’t eat what he killed???

Do you think I really care about your opinion???

 

[bushman505]

So your cool with beheadings in the Middle East because... legal?

Guess what else is legal? Abortion. I’m sure you are just fine with that too?

I’m pro choice so yeah I think abortion is ok.