- Joined
- Feb 22, 2005
- Messages
- 48,735
- Reaction score
- 15,640
I may be an skeptical man of science, but i would need to see evidence of it working, because so far we have a 100% success rate in terms of full socialist experiments turning into dystopian autocracies.
Ok, so if its not socialism then its capitalism.
That means capitalism can range from brutal dictatorships to democracies like Nordic countries.
Socialism only has one outcome which is brutal dictatorship.
Funny how you use the term "mixed economy" a few sentences after claiming that anything that has private ownership is capitalism.
Power generates wealth, not the other way around, in autocracies its the military and the intelligence services that decide everything, not capital, capital is subservient to government.
That's why in Russia oligarchs get thrown out of windows, in China they get stripped of their wealth and shamed, meanwhile party members, military and intelligence don't suffer the same fate even when nominally at least they are not wealthy.
What kind of example of it working would you like? I'd propose that its tough to give what you want considering how much meddling happens the millisecond a Country elects a socialist, as there have been global pushes distinctly against communism/socialism from their inception as State systems. Would you ask for a Country who desires socialism to prove to you that their economic model is viable as they're being sanctioned by superpowers for keeping their resources Nationalized? Can we substantiate examples of democratic socialism devolving into dystopian autocracies without meddling? Your question, as well as these, are definitely valid.
I cited the actual definition of capitalism lol. And I did Contend that there ARE capitalist Countries that also have brutal dictatorships, which means capitalism isnt some magic safeguard against authoritarianism. Both systems have the risk of that, and no that's not the only possible outcome of socialism. I've used the term mixed economies previously, before you started replying to me. In fact I pointed to the prevalence of mixed economies as being much more a factor for growth than proponents of capitalism want to admit. Your ideological contentions here demonstrate that. The US isnt pure capitalist and never has been. Same as the Soviet Union was never fully socialist/communist. I'm not making ideological arguments here, you are. I'm saying the subject is nuanced, you're indicating capitalism good, socialism evil. I'm saying capitalists love socialism so long as it bolsters economic hierarchies. Similar to how Libertarians love police and military so long as they're aimed at people they don't like.
Power generates wealth but wealth doesnt generate power? Come on now. There have been PLENTY of militaries that operate at the behest of oligarchs without assuming leadership themselves throughout human History. It doesnt negate the influence of wealth when one group of oligarchs turns on another lol And there arent tons of examples of oligarchs who were powerful first, and wealthy second. Most come from affluent families.