Any vegans on here?

[romistrub]

you can base the should on anything you want--heart healthiness, taste, how the animals are raised, etc.

I partially agree with this attitude, but I partially disagree. I understand that the extent of your empathy is your own damn choice (sorta). It's also a slippery slope in either direction - no matter where you draw the line, it's arbitrary. I could say that I extend my empathy towards plants, meaning that I would choose not to eat plants. The other extreme end is that I don't have any damn empathy at all, and I would eat a perfectly healthy human child. Gotta draw the line somewhere, and vegans just choose to do it at animals.

Personally, I consider health first and foremost, then economics. If everybody on the planet was vegan, then (according to a resource which I do not remember) the easy crops to grow - the same ones which animals can feed off of - would need to become more difficult crops. In a sense, the animals act as an intermediate.

So veganism isn't really "garden of eden", it's very technology-dependent. A lot of the hopeless hippies (admit it, there are a lot of hippie vegans) do not acknowledge the technological requirements of it.

 

[E5]

(admit it, there are a lot of hippie vegans)

This is the worst... that people assume they know how I feel about politics, guns, abortion, whatever just based on one thing.

I'm a fucking card carrying member of the NRA for crying out loud.

I just don't wanna eat animals.

 

[ronin0352]

I'm not getting involved in this whole debate that I'm surprised has gone on for this long without turning nasty. But E5, I don't believe romi was calling you a hippie, just pointing out that many vegans are, and in my experience he's correct.

 

[E5]

I'm not getting involved in this whole debate that I'm surprised has gone on for this long without turning nasty. But E5, I don't believe romi was calling you a hippie, just pointing out that many vegans are, and in my experience he's correct.

yeah... I didn't take it as a dig on me at all... I've noticed the same thing he has.

I was more trying to point out that I agree with him and preponderance of hippy vegans does cause people to (understandably) assume all vegans are hippies.

 

[IDRISCKY]

I know, I just always have to emphasize that about him. Decent Fighter, good athlete, dingbat about nutrition.

Plus he gets super pissed if you eat his Hummus.

 

[vegan]

just commenting quick on some subjects.

first the evolution argument and why a vegan can use it. first of all milk isn't something that we have been drinking that long, and certainly not as much as we do today.

second farming animals and giving them shit to eat and then antibiotics to survive hurts the nutrition value, so you might say that we arent suited to eat the meat thtat is produced today. and again, not in those quantities. just in the last 60 years we have gaind the intake of meat with 50%.

and because of that we started to eat more cooked meat we are the only animal that needs consistent dental care. not saying that we havent gaind something from eating meat.

last about mac danzig, say what you want about him knowing something about nutrition but here on sherdog people tend to shape up slightly when a fighter says something in a thread. even if much of it would be "I have always liked you" and "you were great in tuf about the hummous"

 

[vegan]

oh yeah. since meat industry takes about 70% of all the crops in the world, and takes up about 25% of the ice-free landmass on this planet I would say that the argument that animals is only raised on crops that is growned on land that could not support humans anyway is bullshit.

 

[veganjiujitsu]

oh, and I started a list in the gear section of some non-leather or mostly non-leather gloves, head gear, and other stuff. If you know of other good stuff, please add it.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f16/vegan-synthetic-non-leather-gloves-headgear-shins-etc-896933/

 

[IDRISCKY]

"you were great in tuf about the hummous"

lol.

 

[veganjiujitsu]

I partially agree with this attitude, but I partially disagree. I understand that the extent of your empathy is your own damn choice (sorta). It's also a slippery slope in either direction - no matter where you draw the line, it's arbitrary. I could say that I extend my empathy towards plants, meaning that I would choose not to eat plants. The other extreme end is that I don't have any damn empathy at all, and I would eat a perfectly healthy human child. Gotta draw the line somewhere, and vegans just choose to do it at animals.

Personally, I consider health first and foremost, then economics. If everybody on the planet was vegan, then (according to a resource which I do not remember) the easy crops to grow - the same ones which animals can feed off of - would need to become more difficult crops. In a sense, the animals act as an intermediate.

So veganism isn't really "garden of eden", it's very technology-dependent. A lot of the hopeless hippies (admit it, there are a lot of hippie vegans) do not acknowledge the technological requirements of it.

"So veganism isn't really "garden of eden"," -- I hope I never implied it was.

"it's very technology-dependent." -- most of our dietary choices these days are, to a lesser or greater extent.

 

[veganjiujitsu]

This is the worst... that people assume they know how I feel about politics, guns, abortion, whatever just based on one thing.

I'm a fucking card carrying member of the NRA for crying out loud.

I just don't wanna eat animals.

ha!

Do you all know Matthew Scully? Pretty sure he is vegetarian or vegan.

He wrote a book called: "Dominion: The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy"

"A fascinating and disturbing read." --National Review

"Skillfully weav[es] in argument with narrative.... Both entertaining and informative." --The American Spectator

"A beautifully written and very powerful book." --G. Gordon Liddy


He's some more stuff off his website:

Matthew Scully
"Matthew Scully served until August 2004 as special assistant to the president and deputy director of presidential speechwriting. He worked for President George W. Bush a total of five years, including 18 months in the 2000 campaign, and was part of the team that drafted the President

 

[Urban]

I'm surprised [this debate] has gone on for this long without turning nasty.

This phenomenon lies stricty on the shoulders of the vegans actually. Many meat eaters have clicked on this thread salivating that the opportunity to rip into some vegan's "holier than thou" rhetoric, but I've been quite surprised at how well they've handled themselves and the often agressive posting nature of the boards meat eating majority. I think if more people handled themselves like vegan jiujitsu and e5 have here in this thread there'd be a lot less hate against vegans as a group. Fact is most vegans I've met harbor reciprocal animosity against those who don't share their dietary beliefs. If you don't want to eat what I do, fine... you can be wrong, I have no problem with that. :icon_chee

 

[oyaji poi]

First off, I'm not arguing against veganism as a way of eating, just some of the arguments for it.

just commenting quick on some subjects.

first the evolution argument and why a vegan can use it. first of all milk isn't something that we have been drinking that long, and certainly not as much as we do today.

Most Paleo diet plans don't allow for milk.

second farming animals and giving them shit to eat and then antibiotics to survive hurts the nutrition value, so you might say that we arent suited to eat the meat thtat is produced today. and again, not in those quantities. just in the last 60 years we have gaind the intake of meat with 50%.

There are alternatives to mass-raised meats, organic grass feed animals for example. Supporting and growing this industry will be far more noticable to making changes in the farming industry than not buying meat at all. It is much easier to see money being spent on a competitor rather than in a totally different market. I've mentioned it a few times in this thread already. Instead of not supporting the meat industry at all, it would make more sense to support those whose practices are more "natural" and less chemical intensive. Eating only veggies isn't the opposite of not eating mass produced meat, eating locally raised ogranic grass fed meat is. Or isn't it? Maybe a vegan can comment on this, why you choose not to support organic grass fed meat.

The irony of turning away from chemically enhanced meat to veganism is the necessity to rely on artificial supplements and materials to function and avoid disease/deficiency and do sports such as MMA.


and because of that we started to eat more cooked meat we are the only animal that needs consistent dental care. not saying that we havent gaind something from eating meat.

That has to be one of the biggest understatements since the evolution of our species. It's right up there with saying "agriculture, i guess you can say it did have at least some effect on modern civilization."



last about mac danzig, say what you want about him knowing something about nutrition but here on sherdog people tend to shape up slightly when a fighter says something in a thread. even if much of it would be "I have always liked you" and "you were great in tuf about the hummous"

*waits for flames from people who haven't taken their b-12 supplements yet*

 

[vegan]

I wasn't arguing against paleo diet, just pointing out that you can use the evolution as a argument against some things in the diets of most the poeople today.

I actually not even saying that vegan is optimal for your health. if it wasn't for my ethical views on meat I would probably eat grass feed or hunted animals in this point of my life.

In one way you are right, and veganism would probably not be so big if the industry was more about raising animals in a good way. but in another more cynical way I don't think there will ever be a big market for that kind of animals. farmers will try to compete with lower prices and that will in the end hurt the animals. and there will always be a demographic that don't have the money and still want to eat alot of meat. so in my point of view if you want to get ridd of the misstreatment of animals you have to stop supporting the industry.

yes that was a conscious understatement, eating meat have put us in the place that we are today and I think trouble with me teeth is a small price to pay for all the benefits that modern sociaty brings. even if it has alot of flaws also.

 

[romistrub]

This is the worst... that people assume they know how I feel about politics, guns, abortion, whatever just based on one thing.

I'm a fucking card carrying member of the NRA for crying out loud.

I just don't wanna eat animals.

Uh oh. Hippies with guns! (kidding)

lol come on, I wasn't lumping you into that group. I wasn't assuming I know anything about you. I'm just saying that there *are* a *lot* of hippie vegans!

 

[romistrub]

just commenting quick on some subjects.

first the evolution argument and why a vegan can use it. first of all milk isn't something that we have been drinking that long, and certainly not as much as we do today.

second farming animals and giving them shit to eat and then antibiotics to survive hurts the nutrition value, so you might say that we arent suited to eat the meat thtat is produced today. and again, not in those quantities. just in the last 60 years we have gaind the intake of meat with 50%.

and because of that we started to eat more cooked meat we are the only animal that needs consistent dental care. not saying that we havent gaind something from eating meat.

These are different "evolution" arguments. I'm not denying that veganism could be seen as an evolutionary phenomenon. Hell, what can't?

However, I'm also not arguing that the average current dietary habits are good. At all. As a contrast to normies, my diet consists of maybe one serving of meat every second meal. Otherwise, I've got eggs, milk, nuts, veggies, sea veggies, you name it. When I *do* eat meat, it's rarely the same animal source. While I think that meat is great, I'm also a firm believer in "everything in moderation" (unless you're gaining weight). I get my protein from all sorts of places.

I also agree in the "not suited to eat meat produced today". The same can be said for almost every food that you buy at a supermarket. It's the main reason I switched to organic / local. I fully intend on cultivating my own food in time.

The dental thing.... well... that needs a reference

 

[E5]

Uh oh. Hippies with guns! (kidding)

lol come on, I wasn't lumping you into that group. I wasn't assuming I know anything about you. I'm just saying that there *are* a *lot* of hippie vegans!

The "this" I was referring to wasn't your post.
The "this" is the preponderance of hippy vegans. I haaaate liberals. (democrat liberals, not Bastiat, Locke et al) But I'll stop with the politics... I'll keep that shit in the war room.


I think "that" would have been better. "That is the worst - all the hippy vegans"

 

[oyaji poi]

This phenomenon lies stricty on the shoulders of the vegans actually. Many meat eaters have clicked on this thread salivating that the opportunity to rip into some vegan's "holier than thou" rhetoric, but I've been quite surprised at how well they've handled themselves and the often agressive posting nature of the boards meat eating majority. I think if more people handled themselves like vegan jiujitsu and e5 have here in this thread there'd be a lot less hate against vegans as a group. Fact is most vegans I've met harbor reciprocal animosity against those who don't share their dietary beliefs. If you don't want to eat what I do, fine... you can be wrong, I have no problem with that. :icon_chee

Aside from me not being able to get my point across, thus causing E5 to spaz and prompting a return spaz attack, followed by reconciliation, I've learned a lot from this thread. I was actually saddened to hear that they caught shit from other vegans for doing MMA. Ironic actually.

Reminds me of th animoisity of crossfitters, or anyone else who choose a "way".

Props to the vegans here who have stuck around and shared info, thanks.

 

[romistrub]

oh yeah. since meat industry takes about 70% of all the crops in the world, and takes up about 25% of the ice-free landmass on this planet I would say that the argument that animals is only raised on crops that is growned on land that could not support humans anyway is bullshit.

Your reasoning here has a giant hole in it.

Your reasoning:

1) The meat industry uses 70% of all crops in the world, and takes up 25% of ice free landmass on the planet
(insert logic here)
Therefore, the argument that animals are raised on land that could not support humans is wrong.

First, ignore the idea of "land". We're talking specifically about indigestible plants. I dare say there is no place on earth that, given sufficient resources, a human could not inhabit.

 

[E5]

Aside from me not being able to get my point across, thus causing E5 to spaz and prompting a return spaz attack, followed by reconciliation, I've learned a lot from this thread. I was actually saddened to hear that they caught shit from other vegans for doing MMA. Ironic actually.

Reminds me of th animoisity of crossfitters, or anyone else who choose a "way".

Props to the vegans here who have stuck around and shared info, thanks.

dude... you have a strange need to keep shooting little pot shots at people. Was your thread really enhanced by calling me a spazz?