Best Discipline For Self Defense?

[Nostromo]

Here's how you survive in prison.

 

[aries]

I would start here.

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent on his head or neck.

This is, of course, the list of moves banned from the UFC.

After that, I'd google:

Jeff Cooper's Color Codes
Geoff Thompson the fence
Tony Blauer the spear
Kelly McCann combatives

It's really not about the system, it's about the tactics. But the most important thing you could do is to learn the social norms of your new environment as quickly as possible and abide by them.

That's great but what you gonna do when I knock you out with my right cross that I've perfected through 7 years of boxing?

All those banned moves are close range techniques. No technique can replace skill no matter how brutal. If you don't know how to fight you wouldn't even get close before I'd battered you to pieces with a barrage of punches you didn't even seen coming. That's without even using any Muay Thai on you or any wrestling or judo.

The tactics are great and learn about them all you want but I would say that you be best advised investing time in a proper pressure tested striking art like Boxing or Muay Thai and a decent grappling art like Judo or wrestling and use the dirty street fighting tactics in combination with them. I notice you mentioned Geoff Thompson in there. I'm sure you'd agree he'd advise the same.

 

[aries]

If I were to rank it, here would be the results:

1. Gun defense
2. Filipino arnis/Kali (because sticks and knives are cheap) or Krav Maga
3. Muay Thai
4. Boxing
5. Judo or Wrestling
6. BJJ

Good list except for no.1. He's going to prison, how is gun defense relevant?

 

[luckyshot]

That's great but what you gonna do when I knock you out with my right cross that I've perfected through 7 years of boxing?

All those banned moves are close range techniques. No technique can replace skill no matter how brutal. If you don't know how to fight you wouldn't even get close before I'd battered you to pieces with a barrage of punches you didn't even seen coming. That's without even using any Muay Thai on you or any wrestling or judo.

The tactics are great and learn about them all you want but I would say that you be best advised investing time in a proper pressure tested striking art like Boxing or Muay Thai and a decent grappling art like Judo or wrestling and use the dirty street fighting tactics in combination with them. I notice you mentioned Geoff Thompson in there. I'm sure you'd agree he'd advise the same.

Absolutely. I've been boxing and BJJ since 2001. However, the self defense tactics I'd recommend to a small, untrained person, or any beginner for that matter, are wildly different than the strategies I'd use myself in some situations. I can teach a person how to slap and eye gouge in an hour. It takes several months to develop explosive power and confidence in a punch.

 

[Nicodemus]

That's great but what you gonna do when I knock you out with my right cross that I've perfected through 7 years of boxing?

All those banned moves are close range techniques. No technique can replace skill no matter how brutal. If you don't know how to fight you wouldn't even get close before I'd battered you to pieces with a barrage of punches you didn't even seen coming. That's without even using any Muay Thai on you or any wrestling or judo.

The tactics are great and learn about them all you want but I would say that you be best advised investing time in a proper pressure tested striking art like Boxing or Muay Thai and a decent grappling art like Judo or wrestling and use the dirty street fighting tactics in combination with them. I notice you mentioned Geoff Thompson in there. I'm sure you'd agree he'd advise the same.

Practicing something for seven years does not qualify it as superior. It simply suggests you are pretty good at it regardless of it's superiority.

Not all of the techniques he listed were close range. Eye gouges are or can be delivered off the jab, cross, elbow shield...etc.

I think that by giving a contradictory example of the UFC's rulebook he was making a point that you have to be willing to consider and incorporate the dirty aspects of fighting when dealing with real violence. Not that if you read that list and never train a day in your life you are good to go.

All of the good "street defense" schools incorporate moves, techniques, principles and concepts from "Pressure Tested" sporting arts such as Boxing, MT, BJJ etc anyway.

I wouldn't put money on you turning Demi Barbito, Paul Vunak, Tony Blair, etc. worlds upside down if you attacked them with your 7 year right cross. All of these guys use the arts I listed in the paragraph above as delivery systems for the violent attack defense tactics they have developed.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I have some links to Geoff Thompson's material under the thread "Luckyshot's BEST Self Defense Links" for those of you curious. He's one of the best there is, in my opinion.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f65/luckyshots-best-self-defense-links-1137639/

I've read most of Geoff's books and trained with him on a BCA course way back in '95.
I fully agree that he is one of the best. A nice guy who can instantly switch on and become a brutal fighter as and when required. He has years of experiance on the doors and well over a hundred KO's in street fights.

A superb puncher, Geoff can fight at any range, from kicking to Grappling and everything in between. And he has forgotten more about the mental/emotional aspects of self-protection than most martial artists will ever know.

 

[aries]

I wouldn't put money on you turning Demi Barbito, Paul Vunak, Tony Blair, etc. worlds upside down if you attacked them with your 7 year right cross. All of these guys use the arts I listed in the paragraph above as delivery systems for the violent attack defense tactics they have developed.

No I doubt I would because of their vast years of experience ahead of my own in the same pressure tested combat sports and RBSD training! My point is if you look at most of these guys teaching RBSD like Geoff Thompson, Paul Vanuk, Tony Bauer they all have a background in boxing, MT, wrestling or some other pressure tested so called 'sport' martial art. The founder of Krav Maga was an accomplished wrestler and boxer himself.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

 

[Nicodemus]

No I doubt I would because of their vast years of experience ahead of my own in the same pressure tested combat sports and RBSD training! My point is if you look at most of these guys teaching RBSD like Geoff Thompson, Paul Vanuk, Tony Bauer they all have a background in boxing, MT, wrestling or some other pressure tested so called 'sport' martial art. The founder of Krav Maga was an accomplished wrestler and boxer himself.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

I misunderstood your first post for saying that the dirty stuff is irrelevant rather than it is only made relevant by a foundation of actual martial arts ability.

I agree. We were actually trying to make the same point it seems. My bad.

 

[aries]

I misunderstood your first post for saying that the dirty stuff is irrelevant rather than it is only made relevant by a foundation of actual martial arts ability.

I agree. We were actually trying to make the same point it seems. My bad.

Cool. Oh I fully appreciate it's relevance. I only have to watch the UFC where a fighter is winning a match and then gets finger jabbed and loses the fight or has to stop to see that the dirty stuff works!

 

[Seppuku Sam]

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu by a mile. If you're not convinced, then you haven't watched UFC 1-5.

Are you shitting? Have YOU watched UFC 5-111? Ever been in a REAL FIGHT? GJJ WITHOUT a STRONG wrestling and striking base is gonna get you KTFO in the UFC! The TS was asking about the best self defence for surviving prison? Yes. You gonna pull guard in the shower with two guys wanting to shank ya. Get outta here!

The BEST art for real self defence is KARATE. Not the shit they teach at the mall...but the real deal. say, Yoshankai, or Uechi ryu. Real Karate not only teaches strikes and kicks, and blocks and parries...it also teaches grabbs, loack, throws and submissions. For real self defence it also teaches one on two or one on three self defence. Try THAT shit with your Zu-Zitsu!

 

[Human Bass]

Are you shitting? Have YOU watched UFC 5-111? Ever been in a REAL FIGHT? GJJ WITHOUT a STRONG wrestling and striking base is gonna get you KTFO in the UFC! The TS was asking about the best self defence for surviving prison? Yes. You gonna pull guard in the shower with two guys wanting to shank ya. Get outta here!

The BEST art for real self defence is KARATE. Not the shit they teach at the mall...but the real deal. say, Yoshankai, or Uechi ryu. Real Karate not only teaches strikes and kicks, and blocks and parries...it also teaches grabbs, loack, throws and submissions. For real self defence it also teaches one on two or one on three self defence. Try THAT shit with your Zu-Zitsu!

The problem is...this "real deal" Karate seems quite hard to find. And the way you describe, mixing striking with grappling, sounds a lot like Hapkido.

 

[Seppuku Sam]

^ ya...same differance. Way better than the BJJ suggestion.

 

[Shaoln Shdwbxng]

Shaolin Shadowboxing...and the Wu-Tang Sword-Style...

Seriously though, in the end it's not the style that matters, but how good your individual teacher is, how frequently you do it, etc. With a few obvious exceptions, most of the TMA's (Karate, Kung Fu, TKD) will get you the basics of self-defense.

BJJ can certainly work -- a lot of places offer BJJ/Vale Tudo classes, where "sport" BJJ is implemented in street-fighting situations.

 

[Too Defensive**]

For prison, just stick to your race, and you should be fine.

As for street defense, I used to be big on eye gouges, throat strikes etc. But I altered my training back to punching and kicking for the simple fact if you punch someone, you're not really in trouble with the law. If you take his eye, or knife hand his throat, You're going to jail.

 

[theferds]

krav maga and jeet kune do are great ,but bjj they are only good for 1 on 1. then practice your drills, your body need to get acustom to fighting condition. or muscle memory as other might call it. the best defense to any fight is to avoid it.

keep safe, live longer, enjoy life.

 

[SignalZero]

Going to prison, huh? You could learn tactics, sure, but I would search the internet before my sentencing hearing and learn how to make some improvised weapons. Also, master the art of the ambush. That should make your stay a little more pleasent. Or learn tattooing or bootlegging in which case everyone will want to befriend you.

 

[luckyshot]

In all reality though, the answer is this: be tough, mean fucker who is willing to kill or be killed rather than lose face, or get used to the idea of being a female sex slave.

 

[Giant Midget]

A big fucking knife.

 

[GotDaWork]

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu by a mile. If you're not convinced, then you haven't watched UFC 1-5.

This

 

[ghost scribble]

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu by a mile. If you're not convinced, then you haven't watched UFC 1-5.

BJJ is nowhere near the best self defense out there. The last place you want to be in a self defense situation is on the ground rolling with an attacker. All it takes is one of his buddies to run up and kick you in the head. Fight's over. You lose. BJJ loses it's effectiveness if there is more than one attacker. Of course, no matter what you've trained in if you're faced with more than one opponent you're going to have a hard time, but you'll have much better chances defending yourself on your feet than on the ground.

And many of the techniques in BJJ don't account for the fact that in many positions, your opponent could do any number of actions that are illegal in MMA or grappling competitions that would hinder your ability to get a submission, like eye gouges, groin shots, or pull a knife.