Keenan leaves TLI

[Chulo**]

It's a bit of a chicken and the egg thing, where him inflating his accomplishments leads to more students which leads to more concrete accomplishments which are then inflated again, etc.

But I will admit that there was at least some substance underneath it all at the gym. I just don't think it was nearly as revolutionary or different from other gyms as it was marketed. I always got a lot of hate for saying that, but I have been of the opinion for years that the other top competition teams train just as good, if not better, than Lloyd.

I honestly always felt that the reason why people used to think/still think that LI's guys used to work so hard was because of the fighter house. Without that house, LI would have found a really hard time promoting how serious his competitors were about their BJJ career, thus feeding into his marketing strategy. I mean, all the other gyms can always claim they train hard or harder than LI, but the fighter house really put LI on top. Most of the other gym's competitors would probably go home after training "hard" everyday even on weekends. LI's competitors were stuck in the house all the time. In an interview JT even stated it got hard to live there sometimes because it was a bunch of dudes and they sometimes had differences.

The fighter house really contributed to the success of LI in general though. It was like the Ultimate Fighter house for BJJ competitors, expect this one wasn't that televised, but every single person in that house was a champion.

 

[LaBrian]

From reading other testimonies about training at the main academy, it also sounds like white belts there are left in somewhat of a "white belt purgatory", where the instruction is somewhat random and there isn't any system in place that allows them to improve until they pony up more money to get into the "combat gold" club.

This was my experience at the TLI affiliate, Daddis I trained at. Every class but 2 I went to in 7 months was taught by a different purple or brown belt. They would just randomly pick lessons out of a binder, with no continuity at all. When I switched schools to Princeton BJJ it was totally different and I felt like wow, so this is how you learn and progress, by each lesson building on and transitioning to the next and always having the same black belt instructors day in day out.

 

[anaconda]

from pid, a user on the UG since 2001:

I haven't posted on this forum in many many years. I just want to make a couple things crystal fucking clear.

I am speaking to the police tomorrow in regards to all that has happened with Lloyd since 1989 to Present.I am doing this so I know everyone's legal rights.
My reasons for taking action are simple. I believe I am helping people do the right thing. You can talk all you want but until someone really steps up its really nothing more than talk.At this point everyone should know that Lloyds character is less than human.Name smearing and non-factual accusations might help Lloyd and his cult not hurt them. So let's keep the facts.
This issue should be on EVERY Martial Arts Forum regardless of size, not just MMA.tv. The more people discussing this the more people will dig. The more people dig the more likely the accused will be put away behind bars where they belong.

If you were manipulated or assaulted by Lloyd or a member of his organization it would behoove you to go to the police and file a complaint. You will be safe and no one will harm you. We understand how hard it is to come forward when something like assault or a scam has been done to you. You don't need to feel embarrassed or ashamed. Part of the whole healing process is accepting what was done to you so that you can fix the situation and prevent things form getting worse.

ALL mastermind members or ex-members need to get together as a group and file a class action suit. I am not a lawyer so I can't say if my terminology is correct. One person should collect names and start reaching out to other members.
Anyone abused by Lloyd or his organization should go to the authorities and seek a case against him. I know I have said this before. I am reiterating because I can't stress the importance of seeking help. If you won't come forward on your own reach out to someone and I am sure that person will help you and go with you so that action can start.

Anyone who wants my help can reach out to me. I have already starting dialog with Nakapan , Mike Fowler, Georgette Oden,Ryan Hall, and many many more. I sent a letter to Luca Atalla a few days ago. I haven't heard from him yet. If he is in denial and things go according to the way I think they will he will wish he had the chance to do what was right. I will be in touch with Rhadi , Mike Moses, Dalla, and more.After I speak with the police tomorrow and find out if it's ok,I will send out letters to every publication I can until someone prints the truth about Lloyd Irvin. This will include all the writers at yahoo and local news stations in the Washington D.C. area.

Lloyd lied to me and hurt a lot of people. Some were/are friends. A lot of those people were ( still are) to weak at this time to stand up to Lloyd. I wasn't duped by Lloyd in no way and I feel bad not being able to help those who needed it when I could. At that time NO ONE would have listened to me.Lloyd was everything to those people.Well, Lloyd is not a god. He is a martial arts instructor and a scam artist nothing more. I want the people working for him to know that when I was around it wasn't cool that you weren't given health insurance while Lloyd drove around in a new rang rover. I want people to know that while you gave up sweat, blood, pride, and dignity Lloyd never gave a shit about you. Only his self gain. When you lived in a shitty "fighters house" he was living it up on your sweat, your hard work, and your dedication. Going out a 3 am to buy cheeseburgers for your "master" is not part of a work or fighter program. Have to call someone "master", fuck off!
I don't want to digress and I am getting a little emotional now. I want to end this post by saying I am sorry for not doing a better job of reaching out to the fighters and employees of Lloyd Irvin when I had the chance. I am here now if anyone needs my help.

 

[anaconda]

I'm making a new thread before this is locked. Continue the discussion http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f12/ongoing-team-lloyd-irvin-scandal-2407329/

With Tom Callos posting all of Marcos Avellan's emails to him.

 

[madgrappler]

All of the people saying Lloyd has to be criminally charged and convicted before they will believe any of it are in serious denial.

The standard for proof in a criminal case is extremely high. It is meant that way for a reason. To take away a man's freedom and put him in jail, you need to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt.

However, there is no beyond a reasonable doubt standard for choosing who to train with. There you can just go with likelihood. And even if these things are never charged and proven beyond a reasonable doubt, in no way, shape, or form should people be considering trusting their children with a guy like this.

I mean, the gang rape charge alone would have been enough for me, but I guess different people have different standards. Regardless, no responsible parent will be sending a child to him after this, and that is totally fair because there is no beyond a reasonable doubt standard when determining who to trust with your child.

By a reasonable standard the revelation of the rape charges should have been enough. But people are generally lazy and greedy, the combination of fear of rocking the boat and inconvenience for themselves, and the hope of profit kept people from taking a stand, or got them to take the wrong stand.

It was pretty frustrating, watching people dither about, well, it sure looks like Lloyd is a scumbag, but I'm not going to do anything or take a stand. I lost respect for a lot of people who took that attitude, I'd had more faith in their character before.

But for anyone who wants to defend Lloyd now? Fuck you. Get off my earth. Whether or not Lloyd gets charged with a crime is irrelevant. You have the right to associate with whomever you choose - and you also have the responsibility to live with the consequences. I'll make sure they are as harsh as possible in every way I can.

Proud to have been the first one to identify Lloyd as a BJJ televangelist with a cult following. Proud to have been one of the first ones to identify the shills - proud to have been taking a stand before I had no choice. No cowards in my house, friends.

Other than that - my work here is done. Thanks Balto - you've done the BJJ community a great service by blowing the lid off this, and as it turns out your timing was perfect.

For fun, someone should count up the number of times professional contrarian KGB tried to pretend to be the voice of reason and turned out to be 100% wrong vs the number of times he happened on a good point. The ratio has to be at least 100 to 1. Also proud to have been among the first to realize the utter pointlessness of acting like he has a valid contribution to any discussion.

 

[KGB256]

For fun, someone should count up the number of times professional contrarian KGB tried to pretend to be the voice of reason and turned out to be 100% wrong vs the number of times he happened on a good point. The ratio has to be at least 100 to 1. Also proud to have been among the first to realize the utter pointlessness of acting like he has a valid contribution to any discussion.

Amazing how after all of your self-congratulatory bullshit, you still have time to be butthurt about little old me. :icon_lol:

 

[Balto]

from pid, a user on the UG since 2001:

Someone needs to tell him not to bother calling the police for legal advice. They don't do that, and it will just distract them from the real issues that they can do something about.

If he is going to ask if he has the legal right to contact media outlets about this, the answer is generally yes. The First Amendment protects that. If he wants to dig deeper into specifics, he will probably have to ask a lawyer. The cops don't really even know the law that well in most cases. It's not their job to be lawyers and give legal advice.

There is no way Lloyd sues for libel here. First off, he would have to prove that this stuff wasn't true. For him to do that, he would have to have a court proceeding during which most of these witnesses would be subpoenaed to testify. That would all be public record of course. Suing anyone for this stuff is probably the quickest way for the real truth to come out in court under oath and Lloyd to actually go to jail.

And even if somehow Lloyd proved certain allegations to be untrue, he still has to prove that they were intentionally made up against him out of actual malice as he is a public figure. Good luck with that.

 

[bjjaz]

All those emails Tom Callos posted were interesting too.

 

[OldManbjj]

I am so floored by the last 10 pages of this thread.

I want to sue the shit out of the entire TLI organization for this ponzi scheme of a BJJ education I've wasted the last few years of my life dedicated to.

I want ALL my money back.

 

[Balto]

I am so floored by the last 10 pages of this thread.

I want to sue the shit out of the entire TLI organization for this ponzi scheme of a BJJ education I've wasted the last few years of my life dedicated to.

I want ALL my money back.

File a complaint with the FTC. Seriously.

The federal angle is the best way to get his business scams shut down. If you feel he scammed you in any way, report it.

 

[anaconda]

from fb:

Lloyd Irvin scam victims who are serious about obtaining justice should file a complaint with the FTC. They're the experts on prosecuting frauds like this, plus no attorney fees to bite into your recovery.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

 

[ElKarlo]

Lloyd was making 50-75k+ a month just on his kids programs throughout the summer, a decade ago.........the guy had the customer base, period.

No way. How many kids did he have there and how much were they paying?

 

[LaBrian]

No way. How many kids did he have there and how much were they paying?

There is literally no way to know, even talking about it is glorifying the myth.

 

[The Cicada]

There is literally no way to know, even talking about it is glorifying the myth.

I know I'm new around here so you might not know my style. I try not to glorify the truth and if I say I absolutely know something, I do. On the other hand, I am a moron most of the time. I trained at Lloyd's for many years during the founding times. Times were Lloyd worked 16 hour days to better his business. Times when things were simple. I trained many a day there and Mike Easton, Mike Fowler, Jose Villarisco, and many other who worked the kids summer camp can testify....there were 100's of kids at his martial arts summer camp that shelled out $500+ per month for several months. My math is not incorrect and neither is my first hand memory of observing the children at the school. Many times when I was training MMA I had to go in the back store room and workout because there was no mat space during the daytime, none.

And before you say I am defending Lloyd and his bs, please let me tell you something. I threw away a belt he gave me long ago last night. I literally threw it in the trash. That belt had the blood sweat and tears of not only Lloyd, but Rhadi, James Valentine, Mike Fowler, Mike Easton, Tyrone Glover, Doug Esposito, Chad Lebrun,Phil Proctor, Dalla, and tons of other tough guys that worked their butts off at that place when I was there...it wasn't easy but I did it.

 

[madgrappler]

I know I'm new around here so you might not know my style. I try not to glorify the truth and if I say I absolutely know something, I do. On the other hand, I am a moron most of the time. I trained at Lloyd's for many years during the founding times. Times were Lloyd worked 16 hour days to better his business. Times when things were simple. I trained many a day there and Mike Easton, Mike Fowler, Jose Villarisco, and many other who worked the kids summer camp can testify....there were 100's of kids at his martial arts summer camp that shelled out $500+ per month for several months. My math is not incorrect and neither is my first hand memory of observing the children at the school. Many times when I was training MMA I had to go in the back store room and workout because there was no mat space during the daytime, none.

And before you say I am defending Lloyd and his bs, please let me tell you something. I threw away a belt he gave me long ago last night. I literally threw it in the trash. That belt had the blood sweat and tears of not only Lloyd, but Rhadi, James Valentine, Mike Fowler, Mike Easton, Tyrone Glover, Doug Esposito, Chad Lebrun,Phil Proctor, Dalla, and tons of other tough guys that worked their butts off at that place when I was there...it wasn't easy but I did it.

Good for you bro. You'll sleep better at night.

 

[LaBrian]

I know I'm new around here so you might not know my style. I try not to glorify the truth and if I say I absolutely know something, I do. On the other hand, I am a moron most of the time. I trained at Lloyd's for many years during the founding times. Times were Lloyd worked 16 hour days to better his business. Times when things were simple. I trained many a day there and Mike Easton, Mike Fowler, Jose Villarisco, and many other who worked the kids summer camp can testify....there were 100's of kids at his martial arts summer camp that shelled out $500+ per month for several months. My math is not incorrect and neither is my first hand memory of observing the children at the school. Many times when I was training MMA I had to go in the back store room and workout because there was no mat space during the daytime, none.

And before you say I am defending Lloyd and his bs, please let me tell you something. I threw away a belt he gave me long ago last night. I literally threw it in the trash. That belt had the blood sweat and tears of not only Lloyd, but Rhadi, James Valentine, Mike Fowler, Mike Easton, Dalla, and tons of other tough guys that worked their butts off at that place when I was there...it wasn't easy but I did it.

Good for you man. I trained at a TLI affiliate, not the exact same thing, but I know how hard of a decision that must have been for you. Here is the thing, everything you got told in that place was skewed so Lloyd could run his game on you, and its going to be awhile before you get your head straight now that you've started to see it. I was only in for 10 months and I'm still working out some of the shitty ideas in my head from that time. You've done something awesome for yourself, you've recognized the truth about Lloyd and admitted it to yourself.

I'm not saying you are lying or that you are trying to defend him, I'm just saying you have no idea how deep the programming goes, he's a master con man, it goes deep.

 

[BruceLeeMMA]

And before you say I am defending Lloyd and his bs, please let me tell you something. I threw away a belt he gave me long ago last night. I literally threw it in the trash. That belt had the blood sweat and tears of not only Lloyd, but Rhadi, James Valentine, Mike Fowler, Mike Easton, Tyrone Glover, Doug Esposito, Chad Lebrun,Phil Proctor, Dalla, and tons of other tough guys that worked their butts off at that place when I was there...it wasn't easy but I did it.

Was Tyrone Glover originally from Lloyds?
I though he was Paragon.

 

[The Cicada]

Was Tyrone Glover originally from Lloyds?
I though he was Paragon.

He just trained with us for a bit, maybe 6-12 months...he actually helped me get ready for my first amateur mma fight. I was really in shape, athletic, and fast....plus I was 40-50 lbs heavier than Tyrone and I could NOT do a single thing against him on the mat. He made me look terrible. He was originally from California from what I remember. I have been out of the game a long time back and just got back on the mat after many years off. I don't know much.

 

[Goat Gobbler]

No way. How many kids did he have there and how much were they paying?

150/week, hundreds.

 

[Sublaxation77]

Was the UG just shut down?




NM - back up