“This Is America”

[essie]

Straight up. If black people or brown people of any sort we're in the same position of power that white people found themselves in, and continue to find themselves in, do you think that they would oppress us? Oppress others?

You mean like if we flipped places now or if historically the roles had been reversed?

 

[jamesmiller14]

Remember kids, it's all about winning.
Being the winner.
Being the winner means not being the loser.

 

[jamesmiller14]

You mean like if we flipped places now or if historically the roles had been reversed?

Let's begin with historically.

 

[essie]

I don't find the video or song to be brilliant but it is interesting and I don't think if you find meaning in it you are lying or projecting.

 

[essie]

Let's begin with historically.

I'm not sure, really. If they had been the majority perhaps.

 

[HereticBD]

I hate myself but not because i'm white and I am very insecure.

Jesus. Then why? You really shouldn't hate yourself for any reason, unless you have a real personal reason to hate yourself.

But I also do believe in like systemic racism and that white people historically have and still do oppress minorities all over the world.

Why?

Do think an insecure person admits when they are wrong?

Depends. I think a secure person is confident in their stances. Race related, or otherwise. I think an insecure person questions themselves constantly.

As far as the topic at hand goes, an insecure white person would be one who isn't comfortable in their own skin, and is constantly looking to apologize for who they are, based on conditions that are out of their control.

 

[jamesmiller14]

I'm not sure, really. If they had been the majority perhaps.

I don't really have a big point to go with it, honestly. It's kind of just... food for thought.

I wish that we could take everyone's pain away. From the past... from the present.

We can say that white people are privileged because they were born White... I think that this automatically defines being white as like being somehow Superior. We are all equal in that we are all human beings.

And the true privilege is in that we were born and that we live. We are here. We are here together.

We cannot keep fighting this war, this Zero Sum game because when the losers lose, they will still be here. We will still be here. We have to live together.

it's simply my opinion. But I feel that in order to bury the hatchet, we have to really bury it. Look forward with all of our new challenges and do our best going forward. Mistakes have been made, let's read about them and let's learn from them.

You cannot prosecute the old slave owner. You can only persecute his or her descendants. that is about as Fair as slavery was. it's not fair. It's marking someone for the color of their skin. That's something that should be in the ash heap of History.

But there is a lot of money in stirring the pot these days, in old hurt and present racism.

I'm not sure that we even have a chance when the machine once this only to eat each other.

 

[essie]

Jesus. Then why? You really shouldn't hate yourself for any reason, unless you have a real personal reason to hate yourself.



Why?



Depends. I think a secure person is confident in their stances. Race related, or otherwise. I think an insecure person questions themselves constantly.

As far as the topic at hand goes, an insecure white person would be one who isn't comfortable in their own skin, and is constantly looking to apologize for who they are, based on conditions that are out of their control.

That's probably a topic too heavy to go into but it stems from being sexually absused when i was little and being a victim of rape later on in life, at least that is what my therapist thinnks. I guess those two situations and others, taught me to see myself as low value or something like that. but i think it has to do with a chemical thing like me having a personality disorder but yeah.

if you are asking why i think people oppress others i dont know. if you are asking for proof i would point to things that we surely disagree on like police brutally, the justice system, and cultural things.

speaking for myself my feelings about oppression dont make me hate myself for being white. what would make me hate myself is if i didnt recognize that and used my whiteness as a weapon. but again we disagree about privilege too im sure.

 

[Leagon]

I don't really have a big point to go with it, honestly. It's kind of just... food for thought.

I wish that we could take everyone's pain away. From the past... from the present.

We can say that white people are privileged because they were born White... I think that this automatically defines being white as like being somehow Superior. We are all equal in that we are all human beings.

And the true privilege is in that we were born and that we live. We are here. We are here together.

We cannot keep fighting this war, this Zero Sum game because when the losers lose, they will still be here. We will still be here. We have to live together.

it's simply my opinion. But I feel that in order to bury the hatchet, we have to really bury it. Look forward with all of our new challenges and do our best going forward. Mistakes have been made, let's read about them and let's learn from them.

You cannot prosecute the old slave owner. You can only persecute his or her descendants. that is about as Fair as slavery was. it's not fair. It's marking someone for the color of their skin. That's something that should be in the ash heap of History.

But there is a lot of money in stirring the pot these days, in old hurt and present racism.

I'm not sure that we even have a chance when the machine once this only to eat each other.

But no one is prosecuting the slave owners' descendants. Where is this idea coming from?

Black people aren't fighting battles from the past. They aren't fighting slavery or Jim Crow. Their beef is with the racism that exists NOW. It's a bit dismissive to pretend that heir grievances are all about issues from the past.

 

[HereticBD]

That's probably a topic too heavy to go into but it stems from being sexually absused when i was little and being a victim of rape later on in life, at least that is what my therapist thinnks. I guess those two situations and others, taught me to see myself as low value or something like that. but i think it has to do with a chemical thing like me having a personality disorder but yeah.

Don't hate yourself. Love yourself for getting through it. You're stronger than most could even comprehend.

if you are asking why i think people oppress others i dont know. if you are asking for proof i would point to things that we surely disagree on like police brutally, the justice system, and cultural things.

Don't get hung up on things you can't control. Sympathize, but don't victimize yourself.

speaking for myself my feelings about oppression dont make me hate myself for being white. what would make me hate myself is if i didnt recognize that and used my whiteness as a weapon. but again we disagree about privilege too im sure.

You don't have to feel like you're using your "whiteness as a weapon", simply because you don't victimize yourself over it. We may indeed disagree on "white privilege", but the disagreement would come from me taking note of it, and you thinking you owe somebody something because of it.

 

[essie]

Don't hate yourself. Love yourself for getting through it. You're stronger than most could even comprehend.



Don't get hung up on things you can't control. Sympathize, but don't victimize yourself.



You don't have to feel like you're using your "whiteness as a weapon", simply because you don't victimize yourself over it. We may indeed disagree on "white privilege", but the disagreement would come from me taking note of it, and you thinking you owe somebody something because of it.

Thank you for the kind words . I think we probably agree more than I thought .

 

[76Knockout]

Straight up. If black people or brown people of any sort we're in the same position of power that white people found themselves in, and continue to find themselves in, do you think that they would oppress us? Oppress others?

Only whites are evil, and capable of evil. Don't ya know??

 

[jamesmiller14]

But no one is prosecuting the slave owners' descendants. Where is this idea coming from?

Black people aren't fighting battles from the past. They aren't fighting slavery or Jim Crow. Their beef is with the racism that exists NOW. It's a bit dismissive to pretend that heir grievances are all about issues from the past.

I was riffing. I thought the majority of that post gave that away.

And okay. I'm not mad at any black people for being mad About present-day racism. If a black dude is protesting the justice system because a black guy will be put in jail for longer than a white guy although they performed the same exact crime, I'm right there with him.

There are probably some other protests that he is involved in where I find a little more gray area, or maybe not. Maybe uncertain shit I just completely and totally and utterly disagree with him.

But he or she is as American as apple pie, just like I am, and they have a right to their opinion. They have their right to have their voices heard and their presence felt. if we disagree, then we disagree.

They will probably hear about it. I will probably hear back from them.

if I'm suddenly the second coming of Adolf Hitler because I disagree on a particular subject, well now the script has flipped. but I don't run into that issue with rational people, only super emotional people or Flat-out stupid people.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Thank you for the kind words . I think we probably agree more than I thought .

I didnt see the whole back and forth, but I appreciate your candid posts. I'm sorry for what you've been through in your life and I pray for continual healing. Keep ya head up

 

[jamesmiller14]

Someone is a little uppity and probably confusing and mixing my statements in arguments with someone else's.

That tends to happen when you've chosen a "side" and you debate on their behalf against the other "side" pretty soon you start mixing up all of the white people ("The Nazis" Trumptards Russian Trolls or whatever pejorative is being assigned today to anyone that descendants from the mainstream left wing on May 20 2018)

 

[76Knockout]

But no one is prosecuting the slave owners' descendants. Where is this idea coming from?

Black people aren't fighting battles from the past. They aren't fighting slavery or Jim Crow. Their beef is with the racism that exists NOW. It's a bit dismissive to pretend that heir grievances are all about issues from the past.

So legitimate question.

I did a family lineage/tree thing in high school. Turns out my family to our knowledge never owned slaves, so what do I personally have to feel guilty/pay for? Not a troll question I'm being serious.

(also to the uninformed it turns out even at the peak of slavery in the US it was still a VERY small percentage of whites who owned slaves)

 

[Leagon]

So legitimate question.

I did a family lineage/tree thing in high school. Turns out my family to our knowledge never owned slaves, so what do I personally have to feel guilty/pay for? Not a troll question I'm being serious.

(also to the uninformed it turns out even at the peak of slavery in the US it was still a VERY small percentage of whites who owned slaves)

Who is asking you to pay for slavery? Who is telling you to feel guilty for slavery? You quoted my post, but it seems as if you didn't read it. No one is talking about slavery.

 

[HereticBD]

But no one is prosecuting the slave owners' descendants. Where is this idea coming from?

Black people aren't fighting battles from the past. They aren't fighting slavery or Jim Crow. Their beef is with the racism that exists NOW. It's a bit dismissive to pretend that heir grievances are all about issues from the past.

But what are their issues NOW? What are the issues facing the black community that aren't self inflicted, and can't be tied(excused) to issues from the past?

How exactly is the white man holding down the black man today?

 

[Leagon]

But what are their issues NOW? What are the issues facing the black community that aren't self inflicted, and can't be tied(excused) to issues from the past?

How exactly is the white man holding down the black man today?

Lol...I mean, just judging from your tone, I can tell that you're not interested in a serious answer on that. You already believe that all of the black community's problems are either self inflicted or based on some old shit. If this were 1940, maybe I could present some arguments that you weren't familiar with. But if you still hold that belief in 2018, I probably can't change your opinion.

 

[HereticBD]

Lol...I mean, just judging from your tone, I can tell that you're not interested in a serious answer on that. You already believe that all of the black community's problems are either self inflicted or based on some old shit. If this were 1940, maybe I could present some arguments that you weren't familiar with. But if you still hold that belief in 2018, I probably can't change your opinion.

So...you got nothing.

You said it. You said they don't give a shit about the past, and it's all about NOW. So, what is it? I'm all ears. Let's hear it.