Best brazilian jujitsu artist in MMA history?

[Area809]

And lost (and its arguable who faced better).

Mir has 3 UFC Champs (not FORMER, but 2 defending and one future) on his sub list...all with zero striking setups.

You make my point when you make reference to Brock Lesnar on his second fight. There’s not a lot of good bjj guys at heavyweight.

 

[mkess101]

This thread is interesting but all over the place because there aren't really even loose parameters on what TS means. So you have people throwing all sorts of answers up and depending on what you are using as your guidelines, most of them have at least some sort of a case.

 

[gono btw]

This thread is interesting but all over the place because there aren't really even loose parameters on what TS means. So you have people throwing all sorts of answers up and depending on what you are using as your guidelines, most of them have at least some sort of a case.

It can only mean the most successful one or the most legit run, otherwise some competitors like Hickson would be tough to assess here.

 

[Teila_Tuli]

 

[mkess101]

It can only mean the most successful one or the most legit run, otherwise some competitors like Hickson would be tough to assess here.

But does it mean using bjj in their MMA fights, or simply who has the best bjj overall but has fought in MMA?

 

[gono btw]

But does it mean using bjj in their MMA fights, or simply who has the best bjj overall but has fought in MMA?

I suppose OP meant a legit BJJ dude, who did use his BJJ skills during his MMA career, not someone like Vitor Gracie for instance.

 

[Area809]

Puh-lease...

Ya dont armbar one fourth of RTT like that, and ya dont school Volk Han jus´like that (of course RTT would claim that Volk was injured...hard to assess).

Of course, he was then schooled by ol´Vet Kopylov... Shit happens.

Watch the fights.

Not saying Mir wasn’t good. Just saying Jacare and Maia are better. It’s not a new concept that smaller guys are more technically proficient. The stats even show it.

 

[mkess101]

I suppose OP meant a legit BJJ dude, who did use his BJJ skills during his MMA career, not someone like Vitor Gracie for instance.

Yeah and then, how much success in MMA do they have to have had?

Roger is the best pure grappler I've ever seen if you combine gi and no gi. The best version of him is the clear cut #1 seed in any openweight gi tournament you could draw up. And he's at or near the top in a no gi tourney as well. And he's had SOME success in MMA. But then you have Maia and Jacare. Maybe a half step down in grappling accomplishments than Roger (I mean, they are close, but still just a shade below him) but have had more success actually inside of MMA. And then you have Werdum, another rung down in terms of grappling accomplishments (though still extremely decorated) but with even more success in MMA.

Then guys like Mir and Nog who used bjj extremely effectively in MMA but really weren't as decorated as grapplers outside the cage (hell Mir not at all, he stopped even training for pure grappling when he got his purple belt so he could focus on MMA).

The question is pretty ambiguous. Depending on how you view it, a lot of answers "work".

 

[jasonjonesmma]

jake shields

 

[gono btw]

Yeah and then, how much success in MMA do they have to have had?

Roger is the best pure grappler I've ever seen if you combine gi and no gi. The best version of him is the clear cut #1 seed in any openweight gi tournament you could draw up. And he's at or near the top in a no gi tourney as well. And he's had SOME success in MMA. But then you have Maia and Jacare. Maybe a half step down in grappling accomplishments than Roger (I mean, they are close, but still just a shade below him) but have had more success actually inside of MMA. And then you have Werdum, another rung down in terms of grappling accomplishments (though still extremely decorated) but with even more success in MMA.

Then guys like Mir and Nog who used bjj extremely effectively in MMA but really weren't as decorated as grapplers outside the cage (hell Mir not at all, he stopped even training for pure grappling when he got his purple belt so he could focus on MMA).

The question is pretty ambiguous. Depending on how you view it, a lot of answers "work".

Roger is not the answer here.

The only dude who had legit clear success in 3 different 'eras', 3 different Orgs:



Jacare´s & Doom´s Vale Tudo/pre-Pride-Dream era were not that bright.

 

[mkess101]

Roger is not the answer here.

The only dude who had legit clear success in 3 different 'eras', 3 different Orgs:

View attachment 486697

Jacare´s & Doom´s Vale Tudo/pre-Pride-Dream era were not that bright.

Nog may have had the most success over the longest period of time using bjj in MMA, but that doesn't necessarily make him "the best bjj artist in MMA history".

Remember when they fought in Pride, Nog avoided the ground with Werdum like the plague. Granted back then Nog had much better striking so it made sense to try to keep it standing, but he knew he wanted no part of Werdum on the mat.

Then in the UFC (and yes, well past Nog's prime) Werdum showed why when they fought.

You value longevity a lot, which is totally fine. But there are just a ton of ways to view this question.

 

[gono btw]

Nog may have had the most success over the longest period of time using bjj in MMA, but that doesn't necessarily make him "the best bjj artist in MMA history".

Depending on the OP.

Wouldnt make sense otherwise.
Would be like answerin´ Karelin to a similar OP about them wrasslers.

 

[mkess101]

Depending on the OP.

Wouldnt make sense otherwise.
Would be like answerin´ Karelin to a similar OP about them wrasslers.

Dude, Karelin had one shoot style pro wrestling match. Nobody really views that as an MMA fight. So he didn't even have the one legit MMA fight that Marcelo had.

Rulon Gardner did have one legit MMA fight, so I guess that's your comparison. And that's my point. Roger had more than one or two fights in MMA, he had 10 (going 8-2) assuming he's done fighting. Obviously he hasn't had the long term career and success of other elite bjj guys.

If Roger's career isn't long enough, you then could go to Maia or Jacare. Both are far better pure grapplers than Nog, and have had long term success in MMA at the highest level.

 

[drbolony]

Probably Jacare or Werdum. Roger Gracie is legit too, just not much of an MMA Fighter.

 

[gono btw]

Dude, Karelin had one shoot style pro wrestling match. Nobody really views that as an MMA fight. So he didn't even have the one legit MMA fight that Marcelo had.

Rulon Gardner did have one legit MMA fight, so I guess that's your comparison. And that's my point. Roger had more than one or two fights in MMA, he had 10 (going 8-2) assuming he's done fighting. Obviously he hasn't had the long term career and success of other elite bjj guys.

If Roger's career isn't long enough, you then could go to Maia or Jacare. Both are far better pure grapplers than Nog, and have had long term success in MMA at the highest level.

ah c´m´on... Roger´s career put him out of the discussion here... 10 fights...

In time, ya cant compare Nog´s success to Maia´s or Jacare, as I explained, Nog´s early career was already on the big stage in GOAT tournaments with high level SOBs.

 

[mkess101]

ah c´m´on... Roger´s career put him out of the discussion here... 10 fights...

In time, ya cant compare Nog´s success to Maia´s or Jacare, as I explained, Nog´s early career was already on the big stage in GOAT tournaments with high level SOBs.

Right I agree, inside MMA Nog had a longer career with more overall success. No question.

On the flipside, he is nowhere near the actual bjj artist that these other guys are. So you have to balance the two.

 

[gono btw]

Right I agree, inside MMA Nog had a longer career with more overall success. No question.

On the flipside, he is nowhere near the actual bjj artist that these other guys are. So you have to balance the two.

I suggest ya go and watch back what he had the audacity to do against Volk for instance... then... to balance this, watch how Kopylov schooled him in the 1st Round of their fight.

It´s all a matter of perspective.

 

[mkess101]

I suggest ya go and watch back what he had the audacity to do against Volk for instance... then... to balance this, watch how Kopylov schooled him in the 1st Round of their fight.

It´s all a matter of perspective.

So...are you arguing Nog's bjj is at the level of someone like Roger or Jacare or Maia (or Werdum).

I'm just asking. I totally disagree, but won't flame you or anything if you believe it.

 

[gono btw]

So...are you arguing Nog's bjj is at the level of someone like Roger or Jacare or Maia (or Werdum).

I'm just asking. I totally disagree, but won't flame you or anything if you believe it.

I´ve jus´said that Kopylov schooled Nog in the 1st Round of their fight, which was arguably the lone round Nog [legit] lost in Rings...So I put things into perspective.

tbh I have zero interest in BJJ credentials, my focus is the MMA/NHB scene.
BJJ dudes like Doom are pretty textbook BJJ, not what I would call a dynamic grappling like the one you can appreciate in the Nog vs Labasanov [RTT] fight, or Nog vs Volk.

 

[Summoning]

Yuri Nakai.