Catholic Church Commits to the Abolition of the Death Penalty

[luckyshot]

Oh yes, Jesus deemed himself a servant. But that doesn't mean that the decisions and (non)actions of the Father were overturned. Yahweh justifying the death penalty can never be overcome by Jesus' words and actions, much less Paul's. Also, heterosexual rape.

And who the fuck was Paul anyway? An ex-antichristian prosecutor claiming conversion due to a miracle. Why the fuck is he taken to be the most fundamental source of NT orthodoxy, instead of Jesus' personal disciples?

@IngaVovchanchyn care to explain this one? I’m tired and going to bed.

 

[ShadBo]

@IngaVovchanchyn care to explain this one? I’m tired and going to bed.

You're a good dude, bro. I genuinely enjoy your posts and threads.

 

[ocfightfan]

Ah yes, the first non-Catholic Pope. Even as Pope he doesn't have the power to abolish the death penalty.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Pope Francis has ordered a revision of the Catechism to assert “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the human person.” He has committed the Church to working towards the abolition of the death penalty world wide.

http://www.catholicnews.com/service...hism-to-say-death-penalty-is-inadmissible.cfm

 

[Devout Pessimist]

@luckyshot

From National Catholic Register:

Death Penalty: A Genuine and Important Development of Catholic Teaching

The change in teaching here draws out what is implicit in previous teaching. Pope St. John Paul II in Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life) had already taught, “Not even a murderer loses his personal dignity, and God himself pledges to guarantee this” (9).

But the idea that it can be morally right intentionally to kill a being with personal dignity is unappealing also. Catholic teaching is that the basic moral norm is that we should love God and love our neighbor as ourselves. But to love a person is to will the genuine good of that person, and fundamental to that is a person’s life. So to choose a person’s death is contrary to the Gospel moral prescription to love our neighbor as ourselves.

To say that capital punishment is right, one must say either that the criminal has lost the inherent dignity of a person, or one must say that somehow it is morally okay intentionally to kill a being who has personal dignity.

But how could the criminal lose his dignity? We rightly insist on sending a criminal a priest or minister if he asks, and we also hold (or at least it is Catholic teaching) that it is wrong to torture the criminal. If he lacked personal dignity, neither of those would make sense.

This teaching on capital punishment is an important reaffirmation of the central tenet of the Gospel: that we are called to love even our enemies; that we are to do good to those who hate us; to imitate God, who causes the rain to fall both on the good and the evil — a teaching we very much need to hear in our comfortable affluent culture.

 

[franklinstower]

This is literally the death knell for anyone who wants to prop up Christian morality as a shining example of moral perfection.

lol at killing someone for crimes only to have them accept Jesus and have all of their sins forgiven thus being granted access to paradise.

You have to think about things in the perspective that they are said within the religion. We have souls that live FORVEVER. God knows everything so just saying the words "I repent" doesn't get you into heaven. Saying the words and meaning them does though-- even though the darkness in that person could take a good bit of pain and anguish as God is removing it from the person.

Should a soul that lives forever be unforgiven even though they have repented and been healed of the darkness that caused them to sin so deeply? ages and ages passed the time when the soul they hurt has been healed, forgiven and moved on?

I work in this area of life and have watched countless people go through the process of repentance for serious sin. I have too. God may forgive them immediately but the healing process, the process of the removal of the evil that is in that person, that can take years to complete and requires a long term effort. Often the further someone progresses on this spiritual path, the more horrible and painful the sin they committed seems to them.

It is not the get out of jail free card that you think it is.

 

[Seaside]

You realize that Pope Francis is from Buenos Aires, right?

It’s not like he was hatched from an egg in Vatican City and kept in a velvet pouch from birth.

Im from a catholic country with higher crime and thug culture than argentina. Death penalty will make a comeback and i welcome it give it 15 years it will. If Bolsorano wins in brasil in october he will bring it back.

Also good luck getting the muslin world and there 50 something countries to listen to this old fuck in tbe vatican. Catholics are idolators and prime example of infidel to muslims. Also as Russia becomes more nationalist anf expanf eurasian union look to them to bring it back. Many Russian politicians want it back. The eastern orthodox also dont care what pope says.

 

[Seaside]

Catholics are the only real Christians.

Catholics are a warped version of what christianity was for its first 200 years and then for 500 years. But yeah Protestantism is just garbage and a complete rejection of all tradition and the basis of the bible. I dislike a lot of the Saints stuff catholics do but it is undeniable they are the more legitimate stream and were first before Martin luther and his insanity.

 

[franklinstower]

Catholics are a percersion of what christisnity was for its first 200 years and then for 500 years. But yeah Protestantism is just garbage and a complete rejection of all tradition and the basis of the bible. I dislike a lot of the Saints stuff catholics do but it is undeniable they are the more legitimate stream and were first before Martin luther and his insanity.

OK man I have read a fair bit of Christian history. What did I miss that makes Catholicism a perversion of what Christianity was for the first 500 years?

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Yeah, i am against the death penalty as well. I don't think the state should have the power to take life. That's not a power anyone should have over another, even if it's what they deserve.
Banish them from society.
Put the murderers and rapists and pedophiles on one island and let them kill eachother

 

[Seaside]

OK man I have read a fair bit of Christian history. What did I miss that makes Catholicism a perversion of what Christianity was for the first 500 years?

Im tired right now. Message me and i will explain. But in short look up how and what christianity was at first and their beliefs and practices. They held a lot of jewish beliefs. The first 100 yeard then 200 anf then 500 tons of changes happened.

 

[usmctanker242]

life is life

as Ive stated multiple times in this thread..... life is life. You are just a hypocrite

Only a Sith (or absolute moron) deals in absolutes. If you can't make a distinction between an unborn baby and a murderer / rapist then you're morally bankrupt.

 

[babycart]

Yeah, i am against the death penalty as well. I don't think the state should have the power to take life. That's not a power anyone should have over another, even if it's what they deserve.

The state always has the power over life, or else they will not be states. Just ask Tibet if they're a state (annexed by China). A state without the capability for violence is just asking to be conquered. And what else is the death penalty than a public spectacle designed to show off the government's power by executing its enemies.

In fact, martial arts is the masses' way of opposing the monopoly of violence. Problem is, governments all throughout history know of this and used MA to their own advantage, making it so that it is now a form of social control.

 

[luckyshot]

Im from a catholic country with higher crime and thug culture than argentina. Death penalty will make a comeback and i welcome it give it 15 years it will. If Bolsorano wins in brasil in october he will bring it back.

Also good luck getting the muslin world and there 50 something countries to listen to this old fuck in tbe vatican. Catholics are idolators and prime example of infidel to muslims. Also as Russia becomes more nationalist anf expanf eurasian union look to them to bring it back. Many Russian politicians want it back. The eastern orthodox also dont care what pope says.

You may be right on all accounts, and all it would have not one thing to do with how Catholics are called to view human life. It would simply mean that some parts of the world are drifting further into error. Is this really surprising?

 

[Seaside]

You may be right on all accounts, and all it would have not one thing to do with how Catholics are called to view human life. It would simply mean that some parts of the world are drifting further into error. Is this really surprising?

Its not error on my opinion and you cant speak for all catholics. If you are trying to argue that catholicism is a logical religion that is anti death penalty than you are the delusional one.

 

[luckyshot]

Its not error on my opinion and you cant speak for all catholics. If you are trying to argue that catholicism is a logical religion that is anti death penalty than you are the delusional one.

I can’t speak for all Catholics, no... but the Catechism of the Catholic Church does. That’s sort of the point. If your argument is that there are a lot of Catholics who are ignorant of genuine doctrine, I will grant that. If your point is that Catholics are “free to disagree” with the Catholic Catechism, you are wrong.

As far as “logic” goes... you can argue for or against anything on logical grounds. Logic is a tool of the human mind— and a good tool— but that is all it is. Catholicism is a logical religion (read Thomas Aquinas if you doubt that). But it is not religion ABOUT logic.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Only a Sith (or absolute moron) deals in absolutes. If you can't make a distinction between an unborn baby and a murderer / rapist then you're morally bankrupt.

how did you know Im a sith? lol

na just messing, also I dont support either position so chill out dude.... but if you cant see the hypocrisy in claiming all life is sacred whilst also supporting the DP then thats on you

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I dunno man. It depends on what goes on in the prison, sometimes an execution is a more humane option.

Sadly you could be right but maybe we could perhaps make prisons less like a fucking zoo. What do we really hope to achieve putting people in gang infested hellholes where people are reduced to the levels of animals just to survive.
Not many people seem to get rehabilitated in US prisons, they just learn to value violence as the only currency, this hardly prepares you for the outside world.
Its not as if its cheap to put people in these dumps, surely there is a better way? Treat people like human beings perhaps?

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread

 

[luckyshot]

Sadly you could be right but maybe we could perhaps make prisons less like a fucking zoo. What do we really hope to achieve putting people in gang infested hellholes where people are reduced to the levels of animals just to survive.
Not many people seem to get rehabilitated in US prisons, they just learn to value violence as the only currency, this hardly prepares you for the outside world.
Its not as if its cheap to put people in these dumps, surely there is a better way? Treat people like human beings perhaps?

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread

Our prison system is endemic of our cultural woes.

Pope Francis says much of the modern world is “throw away culture.”

This attitude is the result of seeing difficulty as a vice and convenience as a virtue.

It’s easy enough to bring cloth bags to the supermarket. But it’s a slight inconvenience. So we don’t do it. It’s easy enough to carry around a mug or water bottle. But it’s a slight inconvenience. So we don’t do it.

As a result, we throw away millions of tons of plastic bags and bottles and our oceans are full of plastic.

We prefer cheaply made goods that can be cheaply replaced over finely crafted goods that we would be willing to pay to fix.

Our same attitude, tragically, extends to people. We don’t invest in people as if they are finely made goods, worth caring for and fixing

We throw them away.

 

[franklinstower]

Sadly you could be right but maybe we could perhaps make prisons less like a fucking zoo. What do we really hope to achieve putting people in gang infested hellholes where people are reduced to the levels of animals just to survive.
Not many people seem to get rehabilitated in US prisons, they just learn to value violence as the only currency, this hardly prepares you for the outside world.
Its not as if its cheap to put people in these dumps, surely there is a better way? Treat people like human beings perhaps?

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread

There is no doubt that for the majority of human beings doing time in prison makes you a way worse person.

The desire for vengence causes us to work against ourselves and our own interests.