Crime Cops shoot and kill man during "red flag" gun removal order

[andnowweknow]

At 5am maybe he wasn’t thinking too clearly. If it was dark and someone banged on my door at weird hours I may react a bit differently than if the same folks arrived in broad daylight.

Police always identify themselves. I'm sorry but time of day is no excuse. He was described as being irate while holding a gun. Not to be lost is that this is a tragedy. Sucks bad that the guy died.

 

[Prokofievian]

Even though this thread deals with individual gun rights in particular circumstances (circumstances which we're not told), I'll post this anyway to see the response from anti-2nd-Amendment people...

Does that chart compare absolute number of guns with a homicide rate? I think it would be more appropriate to compare gun ownership rate to gun homicide rate, since both would be normalized to population size. Has gun ownership declined as well?

 

[AznTrojan]

sounds like he shouldn't have had a gun..

i had a patient about a year ago.. a severely demented patient who was hallucinating and waiving his guns around the house and pointing them at his hallucinations as well as his wife.. after the guy was admitted.... i kindly recommended his wife to either get the guns out of the house or secure them properly so her husband couldn't access them

 

[tramendous]

To defend this item, the cops showed up at 515am

Someone wakes you up pounding on your door in the the dead if night, grabbing a firearm as a precaution isn't out of the question

They will say its the police. then you look out the window and see a cop car, put your damn gun away.

 

[HockeyBjj]

They will say its the police. then you look out the window and see a cop car, put your damn gun away.

Which it sounds like he did. or at least opened the door, saw the cops, and set his gun down to the side

Then, he made the fatal mistake of trying to pick it back up after they told him they were there to confiscate his guns

 

[tramendous]

Then, he made the fatal mistake of trying to pick it back up after they told him they were there to confiscate his guns

Red Flag if I ever heard one.

 

[Tylerl90]

To those in this forum saying "he should've just given them up and dealt with getting them back later" or some other ridiculous shit like that.... You don't even know the situation, because they won't release the fuckin reasoning for issuing this "red flag order." Give me one good reason why someone in their personal residence is not allowed to defend themselves if such an order is frivolous, inaccurate, or otherwise. These are Constitutional rights that we're talking about being taken WITHOUT due process.

I'll wait. What happened to having a warrant with some legitimate criminal charges signed by a judge? And I am not AT ALL advocating for resisting police officers in any way. I just want the reasons behind these orders to be public record that anyone can view, as well as who made the initial report.

 

[EGarrett]

Does that chart compare absolute number of guns with a homicide rate? I think it would be more appropriate to compare gun ownership rate to gun homicide rate, since both would be normalized to population size. Has gun ownership declined as well?

What exactly is your complaint? How would absolute gun ownership decrease if the number of privately-owned firearms is increasing? The military and police using less guns? If a soldier or cop commits homocide, it still counts as homocide. And if you propose that there are less military or police guns to steal, then you're just saying that gun restriction laws are irrelevant, since people will steal the guns from police.

 

[EGarrett]

That’s a very weird chart.

Why?

 

[Videer]

Have a door not made of paper and dont open it when you are still drowsy.

 

[Prokofievian]

What exactly is your complaint? How would absolute gun ownership decrease if the number of privately-owned firearms is increasing? The military and police using less guns? If a soldier or cop commits homocide, it still counts as homocide. And if you propose that there are less military or police guns to steal, then you're just saying that gun restriction laws are irrelevant, since people will steal the guns from police.

The number of guns could be owned by a smaller and smaller proportion of the population, which does actually seem to be the case. After a quick google it seems that in 1970 or so, over half of the United States housholds had a firearm, whereas that's reduced to about a third nowadays. If you had plotted this line on the graph, well, the same point wouldn't be made. I don't really care how many guns collectors have, murders tend to be done with one gun. The relevant figure is therefore how many people or households have guns, not really how many privately held guns there are.

In general, though, it's just bad form to plot one figure that's normalized to population size, with another that isn't.

 

[EGarrett]

The number of guns could be owned by a smaller and smaller proportion of the population, which does actually seem to be the case. After a quick google it seems that in 1970 or so, over half of the United States housholds had a firearm, whereas that's reduced to about a third nowadays. If you had plotted this line on the graph, well, the same point wouldn't be made. I don't really care how many guns collectors have, murders tend to be done with one gun. The relevant figure is therefore how many people or households have guns, not really how many privately held guns there are.

In general, though, it's just bad form to plot one figure that's normalized to population size, with another that isn't.

What do you think "privately held" means?

 

[Prokofievian]

What do you think "privately held" means?

Guns that people own. What do you think it means?

 

[KILL KILL]

If someone is legit crazy, and the police come knocking for his guns, what are the odds someone doesn't get killed?

Better him than other people I guess.

 

[EGarrett]

Guns that people own. What do you think it means?

I'm not sure where you thought the excess guns were going. If you believe that there are just more people who own arsenals, then you're acknowledging that the operative factor is WHO has the guns, not how many guns there are, and thus focusing on background checks is what should be done.

Regardless, here's a chart showing the % of households that own guns from 1972 until now.

It's stayed steady, and still, the gun homocide rate has fallen.

No correlation.

 

[cincymma79]

I need more information and I’m too lazy to read it all right now. What is the nut who had his gun taken away and freaked out or is this someone who had his rights stripped and defended himself

 

[deadshot138]

How has this not been moved to the “what the cops did wrong today” thread like mine was? Deep state working hard to suppress my WR Presidential candidacy.

 

[Prokofievian]

I'm not sure where you thought the excess guns were going. If you believe that there are just more people who own arsenals, then you're acknowledging that the operative factor is WHO has the guns, not how many guns there are, and thus focusing on background checks is what should be done.

Sure I would agree with that. I'm just saying that your chart was potentially misleading. And indeed it does seem to be the case that fewer people are owning more of the guns. About half of all guns in the united states are held by a very small percentage of owners.

Regardless, here's a chart showing the % of households that own guns from 1972 until now.

It's stayed steady, and still, the gun homocide rate has fallen.

No correlation.

I have a different chart

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/despit...-of-households-owning-guns-is-on-the-decline/

Some correlation.

 

[EGarrett]

Sure I would agree with that. I'm just saying that your chart was potentially misleading. And indeed it does seem to be the case that fewer people are owning more of the guns. About half of all guns in the united states are held by a very small percentage of owners.



I have a different chart

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/despit...-of-households-owning-guns-is-on-the-decline/

Some correlation.

It's always annoying when sources give two different numbers, though they cut there's off right at the spike in gun purchases after 2010. May have to look at other sources, like homocide rate in individual states as compared to gun ownership.

 

[ithinktheymad]

My should have never put it down.

RIP old head