Crime Cops shoot and kill man during "red flag" gun removal order

trac209 said:
We were in the garage when the police showed up and they sent three cars two officers each.
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They'd need three cars for my stash. Hopefully they don't mind waiting around while I box everything. Don't need all my shit scratched up because they just threw everything in the trunk. :mad:
 
MicroBrew said:
Such orders are ripe for abuse. People - including family members - with an axe to grind can just sick the police on a person they don't like.
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How is this any different from any other law? That said, there should be penalties for false reports.

Also, FWIW, "sic."
 
D 1 Wrestler said:
earlier this year. Maryland's law, which went into effect Oct. 1, is more broad in that it allows certain health care providers to seek an order, in addition to family members and law enforcement.
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Don't ever go to a liberal doctor.
 
andnowweknow said:
Don't pick up guns and get irate when cops show up at your front door after getting a call about your mental health...that's a good place to start.
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In a tragic way, the result of serving papers on this guy proved that the red flag order was absolutely the right call.

"Gun nutter" is not a hyperbolic slur. These people exist.
 
cleetus said:
Disagree. Fuck that. Now some random do-gooder can make a false claim and have my guns removed? What a shitty position to put cops in - follow 2A or violate the 4A?

I really hope I'm never sent on a call like this.
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They have to clear the necessary hurdles for the order with the judge. It doesn't just happen because somebody asked. As Protectandserve said above, even requests by police are regularly denied in California. Also, a do-gooder cold literally accuse you of breaking any number of laws if they want to jack you up.
 
Cubo de Sangre said:
They'd need three cars for my stash. Hopefully they don't mind waiting around while I box everything. Don't need all my shit scratched up because they just threw everything in the trunk. :mad:
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Actually they let him case it all up and we’re very responsible with the guns.
 
andnowweknow said:
As it stands, I'm fully on board with taking guns from people who answer the door WITH GUNS when the cops show up.
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Pretty much the epitome of asking for trouble isn’t it. Who knows what would have happened if he hadn’t but then again not banging on someones door at 5am might have not put him on alert either. Hard to Monday morning qb such situations.
 
Not seeing the problem here. You don't wrestle for a gun with the cops and expect them not to shoot you. And I think we have a very clear answer to the question "Was this guy too much of a danger to have a gun?"
 
woodguyatl said:
They have to clear the necessary hurdles for the order with the judge. It doesn't just happen because somebody asked. As Protectandserve said above, even requests by police are regularly denied in California. Also, a do-gooder cold literally accuse you of breaking any number of laws if they want to jack you up.
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True enough. Although I'm strongly against a 3rd party claim taking away your rights. They just fucked the NJ people more y revoking your 2A if you have a medical MJ card. How's that for tyranny?
 
cleetus said:
True enough. Although I'm strongly against a 3rd party claim taking away your rights. They just fucked the NJ people more y revoking your 2A if you have a medical MJ card. How's that for tyranny?
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Funny they don't revoke the MJ card.
 
Rule 1 of law enforcement safety: Never call the cops on anyone you aren't willing to get killed.
 
woodguyatl said:
How is this any different from any other law? That said, there should be penalties for false reports.

Also, FWIW, "sic."
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The law could be interpreted broadly enough that a lot of people with no compunction to commit violence could be abused.
 
VivaRevolution said:
That is a good point. We already have psych holds. Why do we need a law to take guns, when we already have laws that allow the person to be forcefully committed.
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A WIC 5150 hold is up to 72 hours for a mental health hold. There is zero guarantee they even stay for that long.

We have sent people for violent out bursts, suicide attempts, etc and they were released from the hospital before I even finished my shift.

We 5150'd one dude 3 times in a 3 day period cause they would not bother to hold him the full 72 hours.

Like I said, our mental health system is broken as fuck.
 
Protectandserve said:
A WIC 5150 hold is up to 72 hours for a mental health hold. There is zero guarantee they even stay for that long.

We have sent people for violent out bursts, suicide attempts, etc and they were released from the hospital before I even finished my shift.

We 5150'd one dude 3 times in a 3 day period cause they would not bother to hold him the full 72 hours.

Like I said, our mental health system is broken as fuck.
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I tell the crazies they should voluntarily commit and be out in 72 hrs or I can make them go and they're there for a week. I lie to them of course, since both are 72 hrs, but a voluntary commitment de-escalates the situation and gives them back a sense of control.
 
I don't know how I feel about the "Red Flag" thing.

I don't know how I feel about AI being used to prevent crimes before they happen either, assigning people risk factor numbers for thinking they'll commit a crime.

Both seem like systems waiting to be abused.

I don't know how I feel about punitive actions being used against people with the thought that they're about to commit a crime. It gives me a weird feeling.
 
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