Debate with controversial 17-year-old blue belt Gracie Combatives "head instructor"

it makes me sick how often they invoke their grandfathers name and image when he would've torn them a new hole for pulling the weak shit they do.

What makes you say that? It's evident from the beginning that they are a sales clan. Why would Helio and Carlos be different? They sold carlos as Maeda's only student for how many decades? To the point now that even the common fight fan thinks Helio invented leverage. I think it's just the same shit, different-colored pile.
 
In fact, wasn't even Gastao a huckster? Wasn't he a manager for wrestlers like Maeda?
 
I do not mean to sound old and bitter. But some of the responses on this thread are pretty naive. It makes me wonder what's the average age on this forum. I can see teenagers or young guys responding to this story much differently then grown folk.

I'm 19 and think that this kid owning a gym is a joke
 
Just spent an hour listening to this... this was a waste of time. The kid is a product of his teaching...so impressionable. Anyone know how many members his gym currently has?
 
Just spent an hour listening to this... this was a waste of time. The kid is a product of his teaching...so impressionable. Anyone know how many members his gym currently has?

13 adults and 13 kids.
 
Parents setting their kid up with a business/career in something he's passionate about. Don't see what the problem is.

If my parents had offered to buy me a gym when I was a blue belt I would have taken it and shopped around for an affiliation ASAP.
 
So 26 people getting ripped off (unless you wanna say 39, including both parents for the kids since it is their money).

The kids program there is the Gracie Bullyproof which is an excellent kids program.
 
So 26 people getting ripped off

Please explain your definition of getting "ripped off".

Was Houston not up front, open and honest about what he was offering to teach them?

His customers are paying for programs he is certified to teach, correct?

If you choose to buy a Tesla Model S, instead of a Nissan Leaf, are you getting "ripped off"?

Now if you thought you were paying for a Telsa, but got a Leaf instead, then I would agree that you got "ripped off".

Here's another scenario..

Let's say you are a brand new student with no experience or knowledge of self defense or how to survive a street fight. You choose to join a BJJ school the advertises "Learn Self Defense". However, you spend your first 9-12 months drilling for points, berimbolos, worm guard, DLR, spider guard, footlocks, jumping guard, etc. with little to no consideration for distance management with punch protection.

Regarding a new student's initial desire to learn a martial art for self-defense, IMO this is a more applicable definition of getting "ripped off". You were mislead and didn't receive what you thought you were paying for.
 
I guarantee all of the people training at Houston's are happy with their choice. As other's have pointed out, there was an already established BJJ gym in the area with a black belt, but all these customer's choose Houston instead. So I guarantee they don't feel like they are getting ripped off.
 




So, you’ve read the articles and you watched Verbal Grappling Episode 2 in which we discussed the potential validity (or lack thereof) of a 17 year old blue belt certified by THE Gracie Academy to own and operate a school. Of course, the kid, Houston Cottrell’s school is a Level 1 Certified Training Center which means he has certain specific programs that he is authorized to offer.

Throughout the podcast, there were several allusions to the various programs offered by Gracie University/Gracie Academy. Rorion Gracie and his progeny have done an excellent job marketing their specific brand, iteration and system of their family’s art, Gracie/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

We thought the episode ended kind of abruptly. We felt as though we would need an entire episode to discuss the merits of, and arguments against the practice, proliferation and long term implications of these programs. Given the response by the jiu jitsu community to this episode we decided to go ahead and air a special episode this Sunday, 10/11/2015 at 6pm Eastern, 3pm Pacific, featuring a guest who will provide us with deeper insights into the Gracie Academy program.

This special guest is one of the most qualified people to argue in favor of the Gracie Jiu Jitsu Academy programs. He has been doing Jiu Jitsu his entire life and he and his brother run the Gracie Academy programs about which we will be debating. That’s right; this Sunday’s special episode of The Verbal Grappling Podcast will feature Rener Gracie.

rener1.jpg

As with all of these episodes I’m going to do my best to let the podcast speak for itself, but I’ll do my best to give our readers, listeners and viewers out there a preview of the episode.

For starters one should understand the programs that Gracie Academy offers:

  1. Gracie Combatives: a program specifically for beginners. This program has been developed to provide people with the basic movements that they need to defend themselves. There is no live rolling at this level.
  2. The Master Cycle: a more advanced program still focusing a lot of fundamentals but giving practitioners higher levels of training and live rolling.
  3. Gracie Bullyproof: the kid’s version of Gracie Combatives. A very widely known system that has been featured on countless media outlets.
  4. Women Empowered: Kind of like Gracie Combatives but specifically formulated as a self defense system for women.
  5. Gracie University (the online version): people can quite literally climb the ranks entirely online and through the mail. They do make a point that earning “official” belts requires testing in a Certified Training Center with black belt instructors, though they do allow people to get “technical” blue belts through the mail. A point of contention for many critics of the system.
There’s a lot more to each of these systems, but that’s another article for another day.

In this episode of The Verbal Grappling Podcast we will discuss whether or not this system is healthy for Jiu Jitsu (with two capital J’s.) Here are some arguments (not necessarily ones I personally will make) that we can expect to see for or against the system.

For:

  1. Not everyone first getting into Jiu Jitsu wants to, is interested in or is ready to roll. The grind has potential to scare away newcomers. The Gracie Combatives program offers a safer way for newcomers to acclimate to the system by first teaching people to deal with less skilled attackers and then teaching them to address skilled ones.
  2. This is a system controlled by the founding family of Jiu Jitsu. Rorion Gracie helped put on the very first UFC. These are people who know what they are doing and do what they love.
  3. Without the various programs many people who would otherwise never get jiu jitsu have been able to make it part of their lives.

Against:

  1. The grind IS jiu jitsu. If you’re not training to handle skilled opponents you’re not training right. Also jiu jitsu isn’t for everyone, it CAN be, but it’s on them if they want to expose themselves to the hardships that come with it.
  2. Allowing people who are at lower belts to open up schools in areas where there are already Sport BJJ Gyms run by upper belts is wrong because people should be getting their knowledge from the very sharpest sources and there is no way for a blue belt to be sharp enough with their technique to guide people.
  3. At the end of the day Jiu Jitsu is Jiu Jitsu. An arm bar or an umpa is an arm bar or an umpa, it’s better to learn how to do these things against someone who knows how to resist them.

What arguments do you expect to see made? What arguments would YOU make for or against these programs?

source: http://www.jiujitsutimes.com/jiu-jitsu-times-vs-the-bjj-hour-verbal-grappling-episode-3/
 
Please explain your definition of getting "ripped off".

Let's say you are a brand new student with no experience or knowledge of self defense or how to survive a street fight. You choose to join a BJJ school the advertises "Learn Self Defense". However, you spend your first 9-12 months drilling for points, berimbolos, worm guard, DLR, spider guard, footlocks, jumping guard, etc. with little to no consideration for distance management with punch protection.

Regarding a new student's initial desire to learn a martial art for self-defense, IMO this is a more applicable definition of getting "ripped off". You were mislead and didn't receive what you thought you were paying for.

I'm sorry the blue belt that came with your dvd set, does not and never will equate to the real thing.

The whole "spend a year doing berimbolos, worm guard..." argument is a joke. There is not a single school in the country that has people doing that on day one, and if there is they are very half ass! Any half decent school will ALWAYS teach a beginner the basics, the fundamentals of bjj. They will learn the positions, they will learn how to sweep, stand up etc. and above all else they will learn how to survive! There is not a single move in the Gracie Combatives program that isn't being taught by every qualified instructor in the country!!!!

"We teach you how to manage distance!" Well so does every other school in the country!!! Stop drinking the koolaid, it is a marketing ploy. What happened was as we started getting so many new black belts in this country that weren't party of "the family" the greedy bastards in Torrance thought "Hey how can we still dominate and control the market?"

Their solution? By certifying instructors online and giving out belts to people who never would go through the grind of earning them! Do you know why bjj was so effective in the early UFC's and why it destroyed all these kata and theory based traditional martial arts? Because they would practice full speed! They would train hard, and battle each other in the academy the same way they would in a fight on a daily basis!! By "not having beginners spar for a year" and then handing them a belt, they are making it fuking Rex-Kwon Do! And the worst part is people like you are actually falling for their bullshit!

Their whole justification about "expanding on their grand fathers vision" is an absolute farce. It is a money grab plain and simple and if you can't see that there is no point even debating with you.
 
^^Arguing with SBJ about Gracie Jiu Jitsu's marketing is like questioning Danthewolfman.com's qualifications and who he has trained with:
all you're gonna get is a wall of text (plus a bunch of long,rambling videos) and utter bemusement.
 
The curriculum is not for me. It's like learning out of a textbook. Games evolve and change over night. You may see something new and want to implement it (or at least try to). But hey, that's not what everybody wants. Some people want everything laid out. That's why you can't get mad at people for wanting different things. I'm sure students know the bjj belt order and that their instructor is sporting the second rank. He seems to be very transparent.
 
Where are these gyms that teach food locks to total begginers? Bermbolo ? No 9nes teaching that to white belts.
Also gracie self defense tactics are crap, they teach gaurd pull rather than a decent throw and tell you to wait for the bad guy to get tired.

It really is not a good system for self defense. If you train with a resisting partner who does throw punches the guy trying to grapple tends to get hit s lot.

I trained at a Gracie combatives gym that used to be a karate. The place. The guys that did karate before the shift to gracie would beat up the guys that just tried to grapple.
 
The irony is... Helio and his cronies were a big factor for sport jj competitions being created in the first place. The reasoning was to test your effectiveness with people of other schools. Why? TO SEE IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO JIU JITSU IN A SELF DEFENSE SITUATION!!!!
 
Where are these gyms that teach foot locks to total begginers? Bermbolo ? No 9nes teaching that to white belts.

My first class ever was on how to correctly do a reaping ankle lock. And take a trip to AoJ, I'm sure those half ass instructors teach berimbolos to their white belts (;
 
Let's say you are a brand new student with no experience or knowledge of self defense or how to survive a street fight. You choose to join a BJJ school the advertises "Learn Self Defense". However, you spend your first 9-12 months drilling for points, berimbolos, worm guard, DLR, spider guard, footlocks, jumping guard, etc. with little to no consideration for distance management with punch protection.

Regarding a new student's initial desire to learn a martial art for self-defense, IMO this is a more applicable definition of getting "ripped off". You were mislead and didn't receive what you thought you were paying for.

Alright pump your brakes kid. In 9-12 months at a normal school, you will do your fair share of live rolling. Having trained for about 3 years, most schools have these people:
1) Relentlessly getting to your back and choking you guy.
2) Big dude, side-control, smother you, and kimura/americana guy.
3) Small, fast, triangle you quickly guy.
4) Knee on Belly affection-ado/wrestler, break your soul, and choke you guy.

The biggest take away from beginning BJJ, the "maintaining distance" on the ground is learning how not to get crushed, move before being cornered, how to move forward while having balance. You get that from sparring with lots of different body types, not just light sparring with someone in your garage.

It's like trying to grab someone's sleeve and collar, and magically do a footsweep... because I watched it on youtube and my brother let me do it on him a few times. :rolleyes: Try doing that in a Judo school during randori or even a BJJ school that practices stand-up.

You need alot of bodies and failed attempts to make the move work for you, to find your go-to moves, and have skills that work.
 
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