Did Israel pick the Judges AND the ref?

[Straatblaffer]

Well name one other fight where a fighter got to do that

I listened to a Big Jon interview about Jon Jones. I though he asked for a different judge, but he asked for a different ref. That is what I meant, so ty for pointing that out

 

[JustOnce]

These are YOUR words: "So, it was reported that Israel was able to select his own judge to his liking..."

I am questioning whether Izzy WAS ABLE TO SELECT HIS OWN JUDGE and asking you for a source to back that up. To clarify the difference between having a judge removed and picking his own judge:

Scenario 1: Izzy demands Lee be removed as judge. Commission complies and appoints a different judge (this is presumably what actually happened).

Scenario 2: Izzy demands Lee be removed as judge. Commission complies and lets Izzy select the new judge (what you are claiming was reported - I'm asking for a source).

Can you see the difference now?

No your reading comprehension is poor. I said " Israel was able to select his own judge to his liking as he removed Chris Lee" AS he removed Chris Lee. Why quote the first part out of convenience when I literally quoted the whole thing? You are selecting your own judge to your liking, if you are able to remove a judge as you see fit, which is what I said again and again in this thread.

I mean, lots of people seem to disagree and it's all good and fun and fair. Well do come back with another fight where a fighter go to remove the judge, if that's all good and fun and fair.

I think more fighters should get to do it too then, who would want Sal D'Amato judging their fights? I mean you guys keep yapping about oh it's normal standard thing, but do come back with a fight, a single fight, where a fighter got to remove his judge from his fight, if it's all merry and fun and fair, which Vettori himself didn't get to do.

Anyways, I mean, you guys can think all you want and put your own spin on it, I'm outta this thread responding to Izzy groupies.

 

[HP_Nut]

Well like I said, how is that not picking your own group of judges? 50, yes, if that number is even right, what are the odds of landing a similar judge in Chris Lee out of 50 that you didn't want if you remove that from your judges?

The commission decides to honour the request or not, if they do decide to remove that judge, the commission picks the next judge. Israel does not. How do you not understand this? Brock Lesnar also requested Mazz not ref his fight too

https://www.mmamania.com/2008/10/29...agatti-not-referee-randy-couture-ufc-91-fight

There are also articles about Chris Lee having a history of poorly scored cards. You can't just tell the commission "I hate this judge so don't use him"

https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-who-chris-lee-the-ufc-judge-receiving-criticism-scorecards

 

[sapporo ichiban]

You cannot just keep removing judges, you can put in a request to remove 1 judge. Once they remove 1 judge, they will not entertain the idea of you removing another judge for that same fight. It doesn't work like that. Israel is someone who has chosen to publicly declare that he requested this, other fighters typically remain silent. Jon Jones requested John McCarthy not ref his future fights, Jones is probably the only one who publicly requested such a thing. Other fighters do it but keep silent. Yes, ref & judge is not the same thing but you get the idea

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2016...hn-mccarthy-says-we-dont-have-the-best-energy

According to the article, they have a right to put in a request.

I suppose we will never know what steps are taken to approve a request. The fact that the option exists could open the door for some manipulation.

I couldn't find the part where it said that it is a common practice and people just keep it to themselves. Maybe Izzy should learn to keep his mouth shut and stop bragging.

 

[sapporo ichiban]

Miragliotta is on the take. He's been a part of so many BS/weirdo calls, like Kimbo/Thompson.

I agree, there have been a few head scratchers with a few ref's over the years. Situations where you see pure bias action, not just incompetence.

 

[MRT]

No your reading comprehension is poor. I said " Israel was able to select his own judge to his liking as he removed Chris Lee" AS he removed Chris Lee. Why quote the first part out of convenience when I literally quoted the whole thing? You are selecting your own judge to your liking, if you are able to remove a judge as you see fit, which is what I said again and again in this thread.

I mean, lots of people seem to disagree and it's all good and fun and fair. Well do come back with another fight where a fighter go to remove the judge, if that's all good and fun and fair.

I think more fighters should get to do it too then, who would want Sal D'Amato judging their fights? I mean you guys keep yapping about oh it's normal standard thing, but do come back with a fight, a single fight, where a fighter got to remove his judge from his fight, if it's all merry and fun and fair, which Vettori himself didn't get to do.

Anyways, I mean, you guys can think all you want and put your own spin on it, I'm outta this thread responding to Izzy groupies.

There is no "spin" here. Izzy had a judge removed and the commission appointed a new one. Izzy did not "select his own judge to his liking".

I don't know if it is arrogance, ignorance, or embarrassment that is causing you not to acknowledge the distinction between having a judge a removed and 'select a judge to his liking'...the 2nd part of the sentence does not invalidate or change the first part. There was no "selecting' done by Izzy.

There is a big difference between the two scenarios...because it is not a big deal for one judge or ref to be refused by a fighter when there is a pool of them from which the commission draws. It would be a HUGE deal if a fighter actually got to "select their own" ref or judge, because that would imply some sort of positive bias.

 

[Genisys]

You are picking a judge out of your team. Let's say you are playing a basketball. 3 on 3. You remove a player out of your team. You are selecting your own team. Just like Israel was selecting his own judges.

You're trying really hard to be correct, but you just can seem to convince anyone. Filing a formal request, or informal, is by no means picking all 3 of your judges. Requesting 3 specific judges and getting all three that you want is picking your own judges. Requesting one judge and getting that judge is picking one of the 3 judges, but that's picking a judge, not picking judges like you say. It seems like you're mad at the UFC or the commission, or whoever listened to the request and followed through. His team simply made a request, they didn't have to do it. No matter how many times you repeat it, he did not pick his own judges. He requested one judge to never judge his fights again and for good reason.

 

[HP_Nut]

According to the article, they have a right to put in a request.

I suppose we will never know what steps are taken to approve a request. The fact that the option exists could open the door for some manipulation.

I couldn't find the part where it said that it is a common practice and people just keep it to themselves. Maybe Izzy should learn to keep his mouth shut and stop bragging.

Yea I never said it was common practice, but most people would just keep their mouth shut. Jones & Brock have publicized requesting McCarthy & Mazzagati not ref their fights, its not the same as a judge though but same idea, that you can put in a request to not have someone

 

[Ideanudge]

Lmao

Izzy did great getting up off his back and even reversing position. Even slipped out when Marvin had his back. Give the man some credit.

Adesanya requested for Chris Lee to not judge his fight, he didn't pick the judges or the ref.

He did and he's great for it, but the dishonesty from commentators tarnishes his performance rather than elevates it. They outright ignored Vettori landing jabs.

 

[sapporo ichiban]

Yea I never said it was common practice, but most people would just keep their mouth shut. Jones & Brock have publicized requesting McCarthy & Mazzagati not ref their fights, its not the same as a judge though but same idea, that you can put in a request to not have someone

I get it. I was just saying that it opens the door for some questions. Apparently they denied Jones in that article, if someone is incompetent to the point that they would rule in favor then they should just remove them entirely. Any other reason opens the door for preferential treatment conversations, just like what we have here.

 

[B ville Famous]

All I hear is

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Interesting, has this happened before?

The UFC flew judges in for the first Rose vs Andrade fight instead of allowing the Brazilian commission to pick the judges.

Based on everything else we already know surrounding Rose her team and her Manager probably demanded it as a condition for taking the fight in Brazil.

I could be completely wrong. At the time of that fight many suggested Rose was being punished by Dana for delaying that fight as long as she and her team had. She did this again with the fight vs Weili to a point where Carla almost got the title shot. Champ and both main contenders all repped by the same Manager.

Complete and utter shitshow.

A lot of people don't know but champs do get to pick their dancing partners but it's entirely up to the UFC to entertain this.

As an example Joanna asked for a striker for once as the division at the time was heavily grappling/wrestling heavy at the top and got Valerie Létourneau who just came down from 135 and won a fight the UFC didn't think she would win and she looked good doing it so she got the nod. The fight ended up being a war.

 

[Foppa21]

Conspiracy theory....

AFAIK, the fighters can voice their concerns about certain people as judges and refs. The commissions (or the UFC acting as the commission in locations without one) can take it onboard, but ultimately, they make the final decision. I'm pretty sure though that where possible, they'll try to accommodate fighters where possible but I wouldn't be surprised if they told a few to take what they're given

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

Is that true that he removed a judge? how is that possible.

 

[Haloom]

The ref didn't intervene a single time though?

 

[HP_Nut]

I get it. I was just saying that it opens the door for some questions. Apparently they denied Jones in that article, if someone is incompetent to the point that they would rule in favor then they should just remove them entirely. Any other reason opens the door for preferential treatment conversations, just like what we have here.

I don't necessarily disagree, but the process is there for any fighter to request it, Izzy happened to try his luck with it. OP acted as if Izzy handpicked the judges, he did not. I have no idea at what rate they deny the request. The judge in question though, has been on the wrong side of many judging decisions, there are multiple articles about judge Lee. There are a lot of incompetent judges in MMA, the issue won't be resolved anytime soon

 

[vadrigar]

So, it was reported that Israel was able to select his own judge to his liking as he removed Chris Lee I think it was, which was pretty fucked up that he was given that privilege that no one else does.

And it is obviously well known that Marc Goddard is an incompetent ref. I'm not sure how he keeps getting main event, but he did.

The commentary seemed like they had their entire house and retirement savings on Israel, and I'm sure Izzy is Dana's golden boy at MW right now as well, and I'm sure they thought Jan was an easy fight to make him a double champ too.

It seemed like 5 seconds in after they clinch, or AFTER the takedown, Marc Goddard was on Vettori urging for more action. There was a point in the fight where Vettori got on top of Izzy, and 10 seconds or so later, Rogan was talking about the possibility that they can get stood up even on top of half guard, which is pretty fucked up. I mean they can, but really talk about it almost immediately after the TD IN half guard?

As said before, I think we can probably agree Marc Goddard is a terrible ref. But it is what it is, you know. You are terrible at your job, but judges are sometimes too, or a lot of times, and good for Marc that he gets to keep his job. I mean, I can't blame no body for being able to keep his job though you might be god awful at it. And he is.

But it seems pretty ridiculous when a terrible ref becomes pretty biased for one fighter, in a fight where that said fighter got to pick his own judge, where a just as biased commentary team is talking about stand ups 10 seconds after a TD.

At the end of the day, I think Vettori prob would have lost either way. But I definitely think Vettori rushed his submission off the half guard as Marc Goddard was urging him for more action like 10 seconds after while Rogan is talking about stand up near by.

 

[amok attitude]

So, it was reported that Israel was able to select his own judge to his liking as he removed Chris Lee I think it was, which was pretty fucked up that he was given that privilege that no one else does.

And it is obviously well known that Marc Goddard is an incompetent ref. I'm not sure how he keeps getting main event, but he did.

The commentary seemed like they had their entire house and retirement savings on Israel, and I'm sure Izzy is Dana's golden boy at MW right now as well, and I'm sure they thought Jan was an easy fight to make him a double champ too.

It seemed like 5 seconds in after they clinch, or AFTER the takedown, Marc Goddard was on Vettori urging for more action. There was a point in the fight where Vettori got on top of Izzy, and 10 seconds or so later, Rogan was talking about the possibility that they can get stood up even on top of half guard, which is pretty fucked up. I mean they can, but really talk about it almost immediately after the TD IN half guard?

As said before, I think we can probably agree Marc Goddard is a terrible ref. But it is what it is, you know. You are terrible at your job, but judges are sometimes too, or a lot of times, and good for Marc that he gets to keep his job. I mean, I can't blame no body for being able to keep his job though you might be god awful at it. And he is.

But it seems pretty ridiculous when a terrible ref becomes pretty biased for one fighter, in a fight where that said fighter got to pick his own judge, where a just as biased commentary team is talking about stand ups 10 seconds after a TD.

At the end of the day, I think Vettori prob would have lost either way. But I definitely think Vettori rushed his submission off the half guard as Marc Goddard was urging him for more action like 10 seconds after while Rogan is talking about stand up near by.

Goddard not competent ? You obviously dont know much and have not seen the others.
Having an attitude and sucking at your job are 2 different things

 

[Phisher]

removal of the judge is fucked up if true. Goodard is a good ref

it seems like you really wanted Vettori to win a fight where he lost every round. if you are going to pick a fight to show commentary bias, this is a bad example

The judge that Adesanya objected to is Chris Lee, who's second only to Sal D'Amato when it comes to incompetence.

More fighters should follow suit.

 

[theaustrianoak]

The judge that Adesanya objected to is Chris Lee, who's second only to Sal D'Amato when it comes to incompetence.

More fighters should follow suit.

i'm not saying he's a good judge. but there are a few concerns...

if anyone else with less of a name wants to remove him from judging their fights, will the ufc/commission care or tell them to go fuck themselves? why not just fire him take his judging card away?