Do you consider BJ Penn to be top 10 all time?

Soggust said:
That's quite literally what I was hoping to do by asking, but given your response, it doesn't seem like you are interested in educating, only talking shit. I'm not sure why you feel attacked instead of educating me as an ignorant fan who has been respectful in the discussion, but it's certainly not your obligation or job to do so.

But telling me to "stop asking for rankings or sources" (to educate myself on the context of the time), then following that up by telling me to educate myself seems pretty fucking retarded.
.
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tbh, I dont feel like educating to the point of telling that Gomi is a big W. I assume someone who gets in a BJ thread with a stance on the matter, has some clue. No disrespect, just saying as it is.

Soggust said:
I'm not saying Conor > BJ. I'm saying applying similar methodology and logic gets Conor to 25ish to me, so I have always considered BJ similarly (.
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Thats saying nothing, mate. What "metholodgy and logic" you can speak about where there isnt even basic knowledge on the matter? Serious question

I did my best exaplaning why BJ >>Conor in my original reply to you, sorry if it wasnt enought
 
Yes, as he was welter champ and arguably the greatest lightweight champ of all time. His latter career and dedication to strength and conditioning let him down especially at higher weight classes but still scrapes in for me
 
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Top 10? Of course. He's the GOAT.

penn-9.gif
 
Some context though

Benoitthegr8 said:
BJ Penn 13-3 at LW with 3 UFC title defenses.
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13 W - which includes 9/10s top ranked LWs all by stoppage except Serra.
3 L - two of them highly controversial decisions in tittle fights.
You ignore a controversial draw vs another top ranked LW in Uno

Benoitthegr8 said:
BJ Penn 2-3 at WW with 1 UFC title wins (Hughes)
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which includes a close SD with GSP
and another controversial draw with top WW and way bigger Jon Fitch.

Benoitthegr8 said:
IMHO it’s fair to rate him as a fringe top10 GOAT, off the top of my head I can however easily throw out 10 names who trump his accomplishments, in weight class order..

Fedor
Miocic
Jones
Andy
Adesanya
GSP
Hughes
Khabib
Volk
DJ
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Even with the accomplishments on paper you listed, its very arguable that Adesanya, Hughes, Miocic or Volk displace BJ, let alone "easily" (you forgot Aldo though)
With the context (and fights you forgot) that I provided, it's easy to understand why BJ is still top10 all-time in many rankings. He is at least in the convo to be fair. I dont think he will remain there for much longer though.
 
pankrat said:
tbh, I dont feel like educating to the point of telling that Gomi is a big W. I assume someone who gets in a BJ thread with a stance on the matter, has some clue. No disrespect, just saying as it is.
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Where did I ever say that Gomi wasn't a big win? Where did I say "who is Gomi"?

Or did you mischaracterize my edit where I had previously vaguely said that BJ had basically spent his entire career in the UFC compared to other fighters? Which I immediately made an edit moments later saying "oh yeah besides k1". And now you are attacking me like "omgz you don't know about Gomi"?


pankrat said:
Thats saying nothing, mate. What "metholodgy and logic" you can speak about where there isnt even basic knowledge on the matter? Serious question

I did my best exaplaning why BJ >>Conor in my original reply to you, sorry if it wasnt enought
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It actually was quite enough. Thats why I literally said -

Soggust said:
But I can respectfully agree to disagree on the comparison because at the end of the day, we might actually be on the same page on Conor anyway.

It feels like the difference between arguing a top 25 vs top 10 fighter is already splitting hairs generally and your take that Conor is still probably a top 25ish fighter given his career feels very fair to me, even if I don't have Penn quite as high personally.
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I literally said "Oh you have Conor top 25 because of the same reasons? That sounds fair even if I don't quite agree with BJ top 10".

You're only arguing with yourself bro. Take care.
 
Nope. It is fighters responsibility to know when to leave the stage and retire.
Some are leaving too soon (Khabib) and some are tarnishing their legacy.
 
I don't think BJ is a better fighter than Khabib but in terms of accomplishments BJ is better than Khabib. Khabib does have that iconic fight with Mcgregor.
 
He would have been until he pissed away his legacy by fighting. He had a fantastic run but you can absolutely ruin your legacy by fighting past your prime and he did it. Anderson also hurt his legacy by doing the same.
 
BJ should have at least one victory against GSP especially considering the asswhooping he put on Georges in their first fight.
 
<WhitmanDefeat>
pankrat said:
Some context though



13 W - which includes 9/10s top ranked LWs all by stoppage except Serra.
3 L - two of them highly controversial decisions in tittle fights.
You ignore a controversial draw vs another top ranked LW in Uno



which includes a close SD with GSP
and another controversial draw with top WW and way bigger Jon Fitch.



Even with the accomplishments on paper you listed, its very arguable that Adesanya, Hughes, Miocic or Volk displace BJ, let alone "easily" (you forgot Aldo though)
With the context (and fights you forgot) that I provided, it's easy to understand why BJ is still top10 all-time in many rankings. He is at least in the convo to be fair. I dont think he will remain there for much longer though.
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These are always harder than they seem. Obviously Fedor, Silva, Jones, and GSP are the top 4. Do I put him over Hendo, Cormier, Hughes, Adesanya, Usman, Khabib, DJ, Aldo, Cruz, and Volk? That’s 10 right there and I’m sure I’m missing some but even still, I’d have to put BJ over at least half that list for him to make the top 10.
 
Even by today's standards BJ Penn has achieved a lot in his career. It's unfortunate the later half of his career is glossed over by fans in this sport. MMA fans are so unforgiving compared to a lot mirror sports like boxing for example. As the saying goes, every new talent in MMA is the next best thing and past legends from a decade ago could surely never be competitive with the new breed of talent

I think a lot of people admire BJ's old school warrior mentality. He wasn't one to duck a fight or carefully cherry pick his career and that's probably what expedited his downfall besides his lazy habit course. These types of guys are willing to fight to the very end.
 
pankrat said:
He is the greatest LW ever, only behind Khabib, and not by much.
Plus he has much greater accomplishments at WW than Khabib.
So it's fair to say yes, he is up there in the top10 all-time
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Get the fuck out of here
 
A lot of filthy casuals in this thread.

you go back to the late 2000s and see how many of his fellow fighters were calling him one of, if not THE best- and you see a different narrative.
 
Yeah, overall the guy made an impact on MMA.
 
Yes and no. Win loss he will get swept under but he meant something to the sport
 
Bj penn fans used to makeup like 40% of the Mma online community here. If you weren’t around it’s really hard to explain. But there was a point and time where bj WAS mmaw
 
The more Shetards talk about BJ the more overrated he gets.
 
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