Frank Mir confirms “unspoken rule among fighters” that tapping to strikes is “unacceptable” & “soft”

scottmushroom said:
I would usually say something snarky about statements like this, but Mir didn't tap to the beating Carwin put on him (and that was a case where the ref should have stepped in waaayyyyy sooner and tapping would have been justified) so he can say what he wants on the matter.
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And the beating from brock. Mir motivated and in great shape like those two bouts can take the most punishment from a heavyweight I've ever seen
 
The Art of the Deal by
Chael P Sonnen
(Convicted of real estate fraud)
 
The Don said:
How is tapping to strikes any difference from tapping to submissions? Tapping is there so that fighters can avoid and escape unnecessary damage. From submissions or from strikes.

Fighters tap from arm locks all the time to avoid breaking their limbs and sustaining unnecessary injuries that would set them back from a couple of months to even years. Why would tapping to strikes be any different when that would potentially save a fighter from sustaining irreversible brain damage?
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I guess the damage due to not tapping to a submission jumps much more abruptly from zero to 100. And due to that the chance of a ref saving you in time to keep you from passing out or a broken bone is very low whereas damage due to strikes adds up in a linear way.
 
It's amazing Mir doesn't appear to be brain damaged after the long career he's had.
 
Every punch Serra threw landed on GSP and if Mario Yamasaki would have been ref GSP would have been dreaming of aliens and dinosaurs.
 
If Mir had tapped to Carwin he wouldn't have lost five years off his life, and several thousands brain cells as well.
 
If you tap to strikes, the ref wasn't doing his job.
 
Makes sense

What are you doing in a cage if you’re not willing to fight till the end?

It’s like that spartan rule where warriors should come back on their shield not with it
 
grimballer said:
Makes sense

What are you doing in a cage if you’re not willing to fight till the end?

It’s like that spartan rule where warriors should come back on their shield not with it
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Arguably, though in that case tapping to chokes and locks should be even rarer, since according to medical science they're much less dangerous than head strikes - which is why several national medical associations have tried to have MMA and boxing banned, but none have wanted judo or BJJ banned. Medically having a broken limb or being choked out and revived is no big deal, but being hit in the head when already concussed is very dangerous.

Fighting to the end means not tapping to chokes, locks or strikes.
 
TAK47 said:
I guess the damage due to not tapping to a submission jumps much more abruptly from zero to 100. And due to that the chance of a ref saving you in time to keep you from passing out or a broken bone is very low whereas damage due to strikes adds up in a linear way.
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Actually the damage from chokes (assuming you're revived immediately which happens 99.99% of the time) only goes up to 5 (kids are choked out, revived, and back at judo in five minutes). And from locks it only goes to 20 - a broken bone/torn ligaments and tendons is pretty minor medically, most of us have several broken arms/limbs just from the normal process of growing up - climbing trees, jumping off garages and other such fun things. However head strikes does go to 100 (people have died from them), and even when it doesn't go to 100 (ie no death) the lifelong effects are in the 70-80 range.

Moreover, with strikes the damage is exponential, which is why sports like the NFL and NHL officially don't allow you back in play for several days after a concussion. If the first strike does 10 damage, a second one of the same intensity will do double or triple that amount, because an already concussed brain is much more susceptible because of swelling and internal bleeding.

Taking a single strike to the head often isn't too bad. Its the repeats before the brain has time to recover that do most of the damage.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
People sometimes get out of deeply sunk in chokes too - its why in Olympic level judo some guys refuse to tap. Like I said, we have kids in judo who get choked out and are back in action five minutes later. People used to line up to be choked out by Gene Lebell (and got a t-shirt for it). You have time to consider what you're doing when being choked out, its not the reflex you're talking about (at least not for any serious grappler). The way out of a sunk in choke is exactly the same principle of the way out of losing consciousness because of strikes - you need your opponent to screw up. Except the risks if your opponent doesn't screw up are much smaller with chokes than with strikes.

The whole idea of not tapping to strikes (or getting back on the ice five minutes after being knocked out in hockey) was based on the medical theory that it takes years of regular concussions to do any brain damage, so getting hit in the head when already concussed was not a big deal. We now know that is not true, and many fighters are educated enough to read the papers and realize that the same concussion issues in the NHL and NFL apply to MMA as well, and so that chokes and locks are less dangerous than head strikes, so the first thing to tap to is strikes, and the last thing to tap to is chokes.

Some guys like Mir still believe the old medical opinions they learned growing up; but lots of other one know better. Its as simple as that.
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Gotta love these opinionated hipsters...

You do realize that ppl were aware of head related issues regarding combat sports as early as 50s, maybe even before that.

The term “punch drunk” was designated for those boxers who had one too many blows to the head.

Everybody knew getting repeatedly hit in the head is not good for you n Muhamed ali was the prime example of that.

Now if you choose to become boxer/fighter you gotta expect a possibility of head related issues later on.

It’s like becoming police officer not expecting to use your gun or firefighter not expecting to put out fires.

As of now there’s no way of knowing when brain/head issues will occur.

Getting brutally ko n then your opponent delivering a flying hammerfist (perfectly legal) “for good measures” is probably not the best thing for your brain/head, but fighters still choose to get in the cage knowing what potentially can happen in there.

So if you’re too concern with cte or brain issues, maybe a fighting career isn’t for you
 
Is there an unspoken rule when your eyes show that you want to quit?

Because I saw that in Mir's eyes when he was getting pulverized by Lesnar.
 
grimballer said:
Makes sense

What are you doing in a cage if you’re not willing to fight till the end?

It’s like that spartan rule where warriors should come back on their shield not with it
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Except Frank regularly turtles or stops fighting which is literally the equivalent of tapping without tapping
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Arguably, though in that case tapping to chokes and locks should be even rarer, since according to medical science they're much less dangerous than head strikes - which is why several national medical associations have tried to have MMA and boxing banned, but none have wanted judo or BJJ banned. Medically having a broken limb or being choked out and revived is no big deal, but being hit in the head when already concussed is very dangerous.

Fighting to the end means not tapping to chokes, locks or strikes.
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Again like somebody else mentioned it

Fighters know when a sub is too deep n it’s either: tap, nap or snap

Sometimes fighters get criticized for tapping too fast to chokes/locks, however for most part they are given the benefit of the doubt n ppl assume the sub was deep n they couldn’t escape

With strikes a fighter can still move around n improve his position, so if he was able to tap, he was able to do something else.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Actually the damage from chokes (assuming you're revived immediately which happens 99.99% of the time) only goes up to 5 (kids are choked out, revived, and back at judo in five minutes). And from locks it only goes to 20 - a broken bone/torn ligaments and tendons is pretty minor medically, most of us have several broken arms/limbs just from the normal process of growing up - climbing trees, jumping off garages and other such fun things. However head strikes does go to 100 (people have died from them), and even when it doesn't go to 100 (ie no death) the lifelong effects are in the 70-80 range.

Moreover, with strikes the damage is exponential, which is why sports like the NFL and NHL officially don't allow you back in play for several days after a concussion. If the first strike does 10 damage, a second one of the same intensity will do double or triple that amount, because an already concussed brain is much more susceptible because of swelling and internal bleeding.

Taking a single strike to the head often isn't too bad. Its the repeats before the brain has time to recover that do most of the damage.
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My point was tapping to strikes makes the difference between "one punch or two" whereas tapping to, say, an armbar = "healthy arm or Nog arm".
I don't know what you consider "medically minor" but I broke my collarbone last August and I still can't scratch my back (admittedly non-grappling related accident).
 
oh look a Toner thread that's actually a hidden GSP hate thread.


what an obsessed little loser lmao, go cry yourself to sleep.
 
superpunch said:
Guys have come back from KOs to win by KO. When have you ever seen someone come back from unsconsciousness? Tapping to chokes is aite, but I agree tapping to submissions like armbars is a pussy move. Forrest Griffin once had his arm snapped and still won the fight
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Fighters have also taken unnecessary amounts of damage from strikes. Mir vs Carwin is a good example. This is a sport. Granted it is a violent, physically and mentality demanding sport, but a sport nonetheless. If you are in a position where you can no longer escape and are absorbing hard, solid strikes to the head, why would you want to continue and absorb the punishment?
 
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