International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. V

[Anewt]

The atrocities that Hamas committed are nothing in comparison to the atrocities that Israel has committed and is still committing. Therefore it makes sense that most of the conversations will be centred upon Israel's atrocities. Israel gives the world reasons to hate it and to criticise it every day, thanks to the extreme right wing politicians the Israelis voted for.

Everyday there is new reasons to criticise Israel, it commits crimes every day in Gaza.

We know that Israel fabricates lies all the time and they get exposed as lies. Therefore it is reasonable to be sceptical about anything the IDF tells us. They lied about the killing of their own people, they lied about the babies, they lie about targeting only Hamas, etc., etc.

Atrocities are Atrocities mate. If any of my loved ones were harmed I'd say I'd be out for Revenge. Regardless " allegiance ". If I was a Israeli and hamas killed my loved ones odds are I'd be extremely vengeful. Same if I was Palestinian and the idf killed any of my loved ones. I'd be more than likely extremely vengeful.


You're doing the exact same as the idf supporters mate. Diminishing hamas crimes and bullhorning israels.

Whereas Hamas hasn't done anything since 7/10 other than maybe killing a hostage and some Israeli terrorists and firing some rockets.

Thats mental. Think about what you wrote just there.

Both sides are complicit in atrocities. All atrocities should be loudly and openly condemned, Especially any actions that kill innocents.

Not just the side people support.

 

[oldshadow]

What about the prisoners Israel took before the 7th? Those didn't matter until after the 7th right? Because they are lesser humans and Jews/Israelis are superior?

First they deal with the events of the 7th then work from there.

 

[7even]

OH NOES!
The loonie that spends 10 hours a day on Sherdog supporting the IDF bombing kids is noting my moral character?

Oh my, I'm so distressed!

Here let me play you some German Christmas music to make you feel better:

Where is the song?

 

[mkess101]

Do you condemn IDF terrorist snipers executing unarmed civilians?

See what I did there? It's relevant to the conversation according to your line or reasoning because none of it happens in a vacuum and we are still talking about the conflict.

Now you reply with something about the borders or the UN and we continue like this because as you say, none of it happens in a vacuum.

What you did there? You did what you've done all along. Focus on half the problem.

Yes, I condemn an IDF sniper knowingly shooting an unarmed civilian, of course. Not very difficult to say.

See how I did that without trying to immediately shift the discussion to the transgressions of the other side? Perhaps you should take notes...

 

[Bob Gray]

Yes because they have more CREDIBILITY.

In history class I was taught bias(which is wrongly maligned) is a natural human filter as we learn which sources to trust and which to not. As we learn a source is credible we give it more credence. As we learn a source is less likely to be true we give it less.

You're saying the source that says every death in Gaza is a civilian and every death is caused by IDF aggression is the most credible?

Like, sources from a state that is literally run by a terrorist group that explicitly list genocide as their intention is the source you find more credible? This is really the position you want to argue?

 

[kflo]

Yep - you just making constant excuses and completely dismiss disproportionate civilian casualties on the Palestinian side. Then you get all sanctimonious when people jokingly mock how ridiculous some of Israel's hypocrisy is.

He laughed at Israel killing hostages. But yeah, go defend.

 

[meauneau]

First they deal with the events of the 7th then work from there.

Why? Why not deal with earlier events?

 

[meauneau]

Atrocities are Atrocities mate. If any of my loved ones were harmed I'd say I'd be out for Revenge. Regardless " allegiance ". If I was a Israeli and hamas killed my loved ones odds are I'd be extremely vengeful. Same if I was Palestinian and the idf killed any of my loved ones. I'd be more than likely extremely vengeful.


You're doing the exact same as the idf supporters mate. Diminishing hamas crimes and bullhorning israels.

Whereas Hamas hasn't done anything since 7/10 other than maybe killing a hostage and some Israeli terrorists and firing some rockets.

Thats mental. Think about what you wrote just there.

Both sides are complicit in atrocities. All atrocities should be loudly and openly condemned, Especially any actions that kill innocents.

Not just the side people support.

But I do condemn the attacks on both sides.

What I meant in my post is that Israel gives reason to criticise it everyday, whereas Hamas was mostly on the 7th. Hence why Israel gets the most attention. It could have been Hamas committing the atrocities everyday in which case Hamas would get the most attention for it's crimes.

Also, you can't compare 1500 dead to 18000 dead, or 30 dead children to 7000 dead children. There's no equivalence.

 

[meauneau]

What you did there? You did what you've done all along. Focus on half the problem.

Yes, I condemn an IDF sniper knowingly shooting an unarmed civilian, of course. Not very difficult to say.

See how I did that without trying to immediately shift the discussion to the transgressions of the other side? Perhaps you should take notes...

At least you have the decency to clearly condemn the IDF, I give you that. I don't think you are being paid by the IDF. Maybe they send you a DM now.

The others are paid for sure because they refuse to condemn any possible criminal acts by Israel.

 

[Koya]

I guess the World Health Organization are antisemite hamas supporters :

Israel-Hamas war: WHO says al-Shifa hospital a 'bloodbath'

Israel-Hamas war: WHO says al-Shifa hospital a 'bloodbath' – DW – 12/17/2023

A WHO team visited the northern Gaza hospital and found patients being treated on the floor. Meanwhile, Israel's prime minister has hinted at a possible new hostage release deal.

www.dw.com

Asked what he had seen at Gaza's al-Shifa Hospital, Casey said: "We found a hospital that's completely overwhelmed. We saw patients coming in every 30 to 60 seconds on donkey carts, on trolleys, with very serious injuries. The hospital was previously the largest referral hospital in Gaza with 750 beds and a very busy emergency ward. At the moment, hospital leadership has indicated that they have only 5 or 6 doctors, 5 or 6 nurses and about 70 volunteers."

Asked what could be done to alleviate suffering, he replied: "Very little, but we hope to change that."

"Al-Shifa," he said, "previously had 20 operating theaters, none of them are currently working. They're running dialysis machines 24 hours a day on a backup generator. But they're not able to come close to meeting demand."

"What we're seeing in all of the hospitals in Gaza is that they're at 200, 300, even 400% of their normal capacity, and that they're running those numbers, supporting that number of patients, with 50% or 25% of their normal personnel. Huge numbers of people here have been displaced."

When DW asked how many of those injured were Hamas fighters and how many civilians, Casey replied: "I saw young and old, men and women… pregnant women. I saw, unfortunately, children receiving sutures, stitches, without any anesthetic. People wailing out in pain. So it doesn't matter who these people are, they're injured."

Casey noted that al-Shifa was so full of patients that "there was hardly any room to walk."

When asked what was currently needed, Casey said, "the optimal solution to this is peace… is a ceasefire."

 

[Blayt7hh]

Your post is in no uncertain terms putting words in my mouth. I said armed resistance against oppression is justified. Not the heinous libel you attributed to me.

It is not my fault y'all are justifying genocide. I'm not trying to make you insecure by being morally superior or anything. Your the one who called my position morally superior.

You literally said that people are not criticizing them because they would do the same thing Hamas did, right after you said Hamas was justified in resisting. Those are your words exactly. There’s nothing I put in your mouth. You swept it all under the rug so you could move on to talk about genocide, which this is not.

Maybe you didn’t mean to say it, but you did. I also don’t know if you realize this do I’ll go ahead and clarify now- I’m not agreeing your position is superior, just that you talk like it is. IMO your position like most who side with Palestine, is naive and impractical.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

Where is the song?

Dunno, check Spotify if you wanna add it to your playlist.

 

[ferrisjso]

You literally said that people are not criticizing them because they would do the same thing Hamas did, right after you said Hamas was justified in resisting. Those are your words exactly. There’s nothing I put in your mouth. You swept it all under the rug so you could move on to talk about genocide, which this is not.

Maybe you didn’t mean to say it, but you did. I also don’t know if you realize this do I’ll go ahead and clarify now- I’m not agreeing your position is superior, just that you talk like it is. IMO your position like most who side with Palestine, is naive and impractical.

Wheres this sort of logic when people say "Israel has the right to defend itself" but don't endorse various individual heinous Israeli acts? How is that different than saying Hamas has the right to armed resistance but not endorsing x,y and z individual acts of brutality?

Also what Hamas did or didn't do on October 7th is heavily in dispute. The main reason it is heavily in dispute is because the pro Likud side is trying to use it as a battering ram to justify wiping out Gaza.

 

[HereticBD]

I guess the World Health Organization are antisemite hamas supporters :

Israel-Hamas war: WHO says al-Shifa hospital a 'bloodbath'

Israel-Hamas war: WHO says al-Shifa hospital a 'bloodbath' – DW – 12/17/2023

A WHO team visited the northern Gaza hospital and found patients being treated on the floor. Meanwhile, Israel's prime minister has hinted at a possible new hostage release deal.

www.dw.com

Asked what he had seen at Gaza's al-Shifa Hospital, Casey said: "We found a hospital that's completely overwhelmed. We saw patients coming in every 30 to 60 seconds on donkey carts, on trolleys, with very serious injuries. The hospital was previously the largest referral hospital in Gaza with 750 beds and a very busy emergency ward. At the moment, hospital leadership has indicated that they have only 5 or 6 doctors, 5 or 6 nurses and about 70 volunteers."

Asked what could be done to alleviate suffering, he replied: "Very little, but we hope to change that."

"Al-Shifa," he said, "previously had 20 operating theaters, none of them are currently working. They're running dialysis machines 24 hours a day on a backup generator. But they're not able to come close to meeting demand."

"What we're seeing in all of the hospitals in Gaza is that they're at 200, 300, even 400% of their normal capacity, and that they're running those numbers, supporting that number of patients, with 50% or 25% of their normal personnel. Huge numbers of people here have been displaced."

When DW asked how many of those injured were Hamas fighters and how many civilians, Casey replied: "I saw young and old, men and women… pregnant women. I saw, unfortunately, children receiving sutures, stitches, without any anesthetic. People wailing out in pain. So it doesn't matter who these people are, they're injured."

Casey noted that al-Shifa was so full of patients that "there was hardly any room to walk."

When asked what was currently needed, Casey said, "the optimal solution to this is peace… is a ceasefire."

And when Hamas inevitably breaks this mystical ceasefire again and rapes and murders a bunch of Jews, you can act all shocked and devastated, and then two days later when Israel retaliates, you can start calling them genocidal monsters again, and demand another ceasefire. Round and round we go.

How 'bout Hamas surrenders and fucks off? Short of that, total annihilation of them is the only option for "peace" to ever come to that region.

 

[Anewt]

But I do condemn the attacks on both sides.

What I meant in my post is that Israel gives reason to criticise it everyday, whereas Hamas was mostly on the 7th. Hence why Israel gets the most attention. It could have been Hamas committing the atrocities everyday in which case Hamas would get the most attention for it's crimes.

Also, you can't compare 1500 dead to 18000 dead, or 30 dead children to 7000 dead children. There's no equivalence.

I have a more individualist view of people I guess. Of course by the numbers the scale is tipped drastically towards Israel currently. Sometimes tho the nature of the actions resonate more than just numbers. [ unit 731 and quite a few notorious battalions/ regiments throughout history ] .. for me anyhow.


For me, its not particularly a single person's death compared to five peoples death automatically means less of a atrocity to me. Nor lessens the impact / outcome to those who lose loved ones. So what the other mob killed more compared to your mob... seems a waste of times for those left mourning. Probably matters more to those wishing to make the otherside suffer more so the innocent victims.


seems kind of arbitrary to me. I mean do we ignore the hostages killed openly surrendering because thousands of others died in [ for a fucked up reason apparently] a more acceptable way by Bombing? No. Because it's not just numbers that matter. It doesn't excuse either side because well they killed more, don't get me wrong. I completely get it and would undoubtedly be no better in seeking revenge.


Both sides are complicit in fucked up shit that has created a negative outcome for innocents. So fuck em both.

 

[oldshadow]

Why? Why not deal with earlier events?

In time, first this situation.

 

[SammyPops]

What should they do about the terrorist?

Not sure what that question has to do with my post. Go away now.

 

[SammyPops]

Or until an unconditional surrender ie achieved i suppose.

People still thinking that it's traditional allies are abandoning Israel are living in a different reality.
Some harsh words aimed at calming a certain part their of own population is about as far as they'll go.

Reality much?

 

[Blayt7hh]

Wheres this sort of logic when people say "Israel has the right to defend itself" but don't endorse various individual heinous Israeli acts? How is that different than saying Hamas has the right to armed resistance but not endorsing x,y and z individual acts of brutality?

Also what Hamas did or didn't do on October 7th is heavily in dispute. The main reason it is heavily in dispute is because the pro Likud side is trying to use it as a battering ram to justify wiping out Gaza.

I don’t endorse every act. In fact like an hour before I responded to you a mentioned one I think was quite inexcusable. You’re now just trying to change the subject away from what you said which was tacit acceptance of Hamas’ methods.

What Hamas did on October 7th is not actually disputed. It’s denied, but the overwhelming evidence is there. I was in this thread as it happened. I saw some of the videos post by the militants. I saw their tweets bragging about their crimes. This is not Jewish propaganda. It’s fucking staggering that anyone is now buying that nonsense.

 

[SammyPops]

Lol.

great way to make an open air prison even harder for the inmates