International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[moosaev]

What would it take to convince you that everything you've learned from your biased anti-Israel sources is incorrect? I don't think I could make my point with you.
You are so far away from reality in thinking that Zionism is quite separate from Judaism and Jews.
I realize now that your misunderstanding of antisemitism is in fact a misunderstanding of Zionism.

You have no point, or else you would've made it.

 

[moosaev]

you don't know jack shit, buddy.

I doubt you even know what Zionism means with your quality posting.

I know not to take fake stats out of my ass and when asked for proof not to clumsily post a source that refutes the point i'm trying to make. You're a moron buddy.

 

[Samjj]

I know not to take fake stats out of my ass and when asked for proof not to clumsily post a source that refutes the point i'm trying to make. You're a moron buddy.

right, because gallup polling is is unreliable.

you don't know jack shit.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

I doubt Netanyahu is calling direct plays like that, just like Biden wouldn't be making every call on every military strike. He personally may not have ordered it, but someone under him did. Someone that isn't thinking about geopolitics and what people in other countries think of him.

That's correct, if it wasn't an accident then a drone operator and or his superior and team went rogue and ordered the strike to starve Palestinians. If this is strike was part of an overall policy against the Palestinian people then it had to have come from Netanyahu, his cabinet, minister of defense and the generals. And they better be thinking about the implications of their policies on the geopolitics of this war.

I don't understand this point you keep going back to.
What do you think the alternatives are? The only thing to do here is to publicly express regret, regardless of whether or not the strike was actually intentional or not.
Why would they admit to a crime and lose whatever support/cover they have left when they can just call it a "misidentification" and not suffer any real consequences?

This point is strictly for those posters that claim that Israel doesn't care about how they are perceived and can do what they want without any repercussion. They obviously can't is my point.

 

[vision1]

right, because gallup polling is is unreliable.

you don't know jack shit.

He’s not open to being wrong so don’t waste any time on him.

 

[Rod1]

That's not what they said, if it was an accident then obviously something is wrong with their identification\communication process that needs to be fixed, now.

The only misidentification is that they weren't aware they were westerners, this isn't the first time they target aid workers, its simply the first time they hit Western ones.

Its going to be pretty hard to sell the misidentification part when they were in direct contact with the IDF and on marked vehicles.

 

[Rod1]

Around 90-95% of Jews are Zionists.

I don't know if there is a difference but i don't think 90-95% believe in Greater Israel which is what people usually refer to when talking about Zionism, i think 90-95% would the general public support for Israel as a two State solution.

I could be wrong though.

 

[Samjj]

I don't know if there is a difference but i don't think 90-95% believe in Greater Israel which is what people usually refer to when talking about Zionism, i think 90-95% would the general public support for Israel as a two State solution.

I could be wrong though.

90-95% definitely don't believe in greater Israel.

That statistic refers to those believing Israel has a right to exist (definition of Zionism).

 

[The_Renaissance]

He’s not open to being wrong so don’t waste any time on him.

He is hardline Muslim and his side is losing, badly. He is behaving as expected.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

The only misidentification is that they weren't aware they were westerners, this isn't the first time they target aid workers, its simply the first time they hit Western ones.

Its going to be pretty hard to sell the misidentification part when they were in direct contact with the IDF and on marked vehicles.

It looks like the incident was at 11 PM, and I don't know how well Israeli drones can identify markings from distance in the dark. I don't think the vehicles had infra red or laser markings, so the drone crew had to rely on just the camera and communications.

I know that the Israelis use the Hermes and I found some footage. I don't know if this was taken in the day or night though

 

[moreorless87]

That's correct, if it wasn't an accident then a drone operator and or his superior and team went rogue and ordered the strike to starve Palestinians. If this is strike was part of an overall policy against the Palestinian people then it had to have come from Netanyahu, his cabinet, minister of defense and the generals. And they better be thinking about the implications of their policies on the geopolitics of this war.

This point is strictly for those posters that claim that Israel doesn't care about how they are perceived and can do what they want without any repercussion. They obviously can't is my point.

So far it looks like they can, there most powerful allies in the US, UK and Germany no major political party has been strongly negative about them so far.

Were in uncharted waters were there is developing such a large gulf between the general public and their leaders in these nations.

 

[Rod1]

1) The drone operator and/or his superior/team went rogue and intentionally targeted aid workers in order to starve Palestinians
2) The drone operator didn't go rogue and was following IDF policy to target aid workers in order to starve Palestinians
3) Israeli military chief cites 'misidentification' for strikes killing aid workers

4) Rules of Engagement are extremely lax and a general sense of impunity at striking civilians led to people not caring about killing aid workers that they may have thought were muslims (since everyone in Gaza is muslim).

As i said in a post before this is the Yuvel Castleman scenario all over again, where an Israeli soldier had no issue executing him in cold blood in front of everyone, was left to bleed to death in front of everyone and police outright lied to bury the investigation.

If Yuvel Castleman had been Palestinian his death would had barely registered.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

So far it looks like they can, there most powerful allies in the US, UK and Germany no major political party has been strongly negative about them so far.

Were in uncharted waters were there is developing such a large gulf between the general public and their leaders in these nations.

Well, there's no need to show regret then if they can do whatever they want without consequence.

There's a tipping point, the Biden admin already refused to veto a UN resolution against Israel, a move unheard of in the past. Biden's team is fully aware of their base and how they feel about this war, election is drawing near and I think Netanyahu is smart enough to avoid this kind of brinkmanship. Who really knows though.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

4) Rules of Engagement are extremely lax and a general sense of impunity at striking civilians led to people not caring about killing aid workers that they may have thought were muslims (since everyone in Gaza is muslim).

As i said in a post before this is the Yuvel Castleman scenario all over again, where an Israeli soldier had no issue executing him in cold blood in front of everyone, was left to bleed to death in front of everyone and police outright lied to bury the investigation.

If Yuvel Castleman had been Palestinian his death would had barely registered.

If it's 4, then they definitely should be prosecuted on violation of proportionality. I'd support that.

 

[Rod1]

It looks like the incident was at 11 PM, and I don't know how well Israeli drones can identify markings from distance in the dark. I don't think the vehicles had infra red or laser markings, so the drone crew had to rely on just the camera and communications.

Israel has some of the best drone technology in the world, it was also not a combat area and the targets were under surveillance, they were marked cars and they were in contact with the IDF.

 

[Rod1]

If it's 4, then they definitely should be prosecuted on violation of proportionality. I'd support that.

I think acknowledging that they have been a bit heavy handed in Gaza and being more open about how they are conducting the war and what they are trying to do to limit strikes against non-combatants would go a long way.

They recently announced they will create an humanitarian command center in order to better coordinate with aid workers and the IDF... that shit should had been created from the start.

IDF to create joint HQ for Gaza aid after killing of World Food Kitchen workers

Initial probe results of IDF attack on three trucks to come out within days

www.jpost.com

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

I know not to take fake stats out of my ass and when asked for proof not to clumsily post a source that refutes the point i'm trying to make. You're a moron buddy.

Aren't you that dipshit who jerks off to the idea of establishing a worldwide Islamic caliphate?

It ain't gonna happen. Inshallah.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Israel has some of the best drone technology in the world, it was also not a combat area and the targets were under surveillance, they were marked cars and they were in contact with the IDF.

And it was at night in the dark with only visual markings, did you see the video I posted of their Hermes camera? If this was an accident, they are obviously extremely lax in their protocols and communications and this kind of negligence should be prosecuted in my book. I can't make the leap to intention, with the evidence so far.

 

[Rod1]

And it was at night in the dark with only visual markings, did you see the video I posted of their Hermes camera? If this was an accident, they are obviously extremely lax in their protocols and communications and this kind of negligence should be prosecuted in my book. I can't make the leap to intention, with the evidence so far.

That's the video of an attack drone not a surveillance one.

Check this source.

IDF to create joint HQ for Gaza aid after killing of World Food Kitchen workers

Initial probe results of IDF attack on three trucks to come out within days

www.jpost.com

They were following a Hamas militant, then they believed the guy may had got inside one of those trucks, they decided to murder everyone as a result.

Extremely poor and lax ROE which i guess Israel can always spin as "they were helping a terrorist" which would have probably worked if the people in the car were Muslims.

Claiming a bunch of Europeans and Australians are Hamas supporters is harder though.

I mean its not beyond the scope of the possibility, i mean the US bombed the crap out of a hospital in Afghanistan but the circumstances were different, they were responding to a firefight call, the plane was ancient and failed mid air and the people just decided to eyeball a target, which of course led to the unfortunate events, also the AC-130 was disciplined for it.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

I think acknowledging that they have been a bit heavy handed in Gaza and being more open about how they are conducting the war and what they are trying to do to limit strikes against non-combatants would go a long way.

They recently announced they will create an humanitarian command center in order to better coordinate with aid workers and the IDF... that shit should had been created from the start.

IDF to create joint HQ for Gaza aid after killing of World Food Kitchen workers

Initial probe results of IDF attack on three trucks to come out within days

www.jpost.com

Absolutely, I've seen them try at times, and others it seems like they have no regard at all, completely inconsistent. Some of their officers, soldiers need to face some jail time and sanctions need to be placed on them. Otherwise, they'll continue to be lax.