Henderson vs. Machida

[panamaican]

Agree completely

Dan wasn't be his usual self, as a result lyoto was more measured in his attacks; an dans only chance was going to be catching lyoto off an attempted interception. Lyoto knew that and acted accordingly; basically potshotting hendo, keeping Dan from effectively countering or initiating offense. I found it to be a strategic...slow paced..tech fight...not boring at all.

Glad machida is back to being more measured...I thought he was going the chuck liddel route eschewing measured off district control timing and counter based game, to initiating off and looking to stop people.

That's the thing. Machida is not going to walk into an easily counterable situation. He times his offense for that moment when his opponent is fully committed to a specific movement - attacking, that moment when the opponent is resetting after an attack, that split second when the opponent is gathering for an attack, etc.

Dan never gave him a chance to get that timing down.

Personally, I prefer this style from him. I don't know that it beats JBJ but I definitely think it's the smarter approach given Machida's specific skill sets.

 

[devante]

That's the thing. Machida is not going to walk into an easily counterable situation. He times his offense for that moment when his opponent is fully committed to a specific movement - attacking, that moment when the opponent is resetting after an attack, that split second when the opponent is gathering for an attack, etc.

Dan never gave him a chance to get that timing down.

Personally, I prefer this style from him. I don't know that it beats JBJ but I definitely think it's the smarter approach given Machida's specific skill sets.

Exactly if your not gonna really commit lyoto isnt gonna attack and when he does.it.may look off...he built his whole game off of countering...intercepting fully commited attacks. You feint or bait and he isnt gonna attack...so he doesn't get caught which happy against jones

 

[peanut66]

i was wondering which way hendo was going to circle a southpaw , and i got the answer , he circled away from machidas power instead of going to machidas strong side , he played right into machidas game and got into a striking match with him

if he would have circled the other way , which is into machidas power , it would have been a different fight , but instead he chased and got into a kickingboxing match with machida and got countered all night long ,

who ever decided to use the tactics he used last night are to blame for the loss

 

[Buddy Revell]

It looked Like Dan Henderson was not just trying to hit Machida with the Hayemaker, He wanted to corral him into the Left hook as well. Because Machida keeps his hands down, Circling away from the Hayemaker would have walked him into Dan's Left hook.
The fact that Henderson has no jab and never punches to the body didnt help his cause. thats why Machida could get away with backing up the whole fight.

 

[ssullivan80]

eh...... that wasn't the fight I would of liked to have seen. Nonetheless, Machida did fight a smart fight and I don't think it was close at all. Lyoto beat him, decisively IMO.

 

[Discipulus]

Machida fought intelligently yes - outstruck Hendo clearly no - because it was close all the way through the fight - he scored 3x as many headshots & more significant strikes - but he was outstruck in the kicking department by Hendo of all people & to the body - you can say that yeah they weren't that damaging - but nor were most of Machida's significant strikes or head strikes - hence why it was a split decision & why he just edged it - that's why I expected more from Machida because the split decision could have gone either way - you or I don't know what the judges look for in their criteria - some favour aggression etc etc - so yeah I expected more from Machida - so yeah my opinion is quite valid - plus the entertainment value was non-existent hence the booing from the crowd.

Wow, I'm pretty shocked by this. I was not only very entertained by the fight (on the edge of my seat the whole time), but I thought that Machida outstruck Hendo very clearly. Hendo had nothing for him but stiff-hipped low kicks, whereas Machida's own kicks looked powerful and clean. He kicked him to the ribs and it ripped Hendo off his feet, and another time he made the old man do the splits with an inside low kick. I thought that Machida's kicks looked their best yet. Fast as they've always been, but with much more power behind them.

There's nothing wrong with landing from the outside when you can but when your throwing only 65 strikes (Machida) compared to your opponent's 73 (Hendo) - your cutting shit pretty close - especially when only 45 (Machida) actually hit their target & 40 (Hendo) of your opponent's strikes hit their target - if you don't think Machida could have done more - I don't know what to say & those stats were reflected on the screen - that's why it was a split decision.

But that's how Machida fights. Aside from a few low kicks to test your reactions, just about every strike he throws he makes count. Dan was throwing some strikes with bad intentions, but those were the only ones that weren't connecting. Conversely, the only attacks that were connecting for him were those awkward looking low kicks. Machida took Shogun's five round beating without showing any kind of limp; I'm confident that Hendo's kicks had no effect on him whatsoever. That's how Machida has always fought.

In short, Machida just did enough to barely scrape it - I think the case here was Machida was much more focused on not getting hit than usual that he let it get to close - I'm a Machida fan & he is one of my favourite mma fighters but I was kind of disappointed (as were the audience for different reasons - because it wasn't exciting) - thought he could have done abit more.

Like I said, I was riveted. I thought Machida displayed some beautiful technique. And just to emphasize that, a few more seconds for the highlight reel:

I'm truly mystified by people saying that Machida did nothing but run. This is how Machida fights. We can't criticize him for getting knocked out in exchanges and refusing to get caught up in exchanges. He picks his shots, and I thought he did so masterfully.

 

[Discipulus]

Agree completely

Dan wasn't be his usual self, as a result lyoto was more measured in his attacks; an dans only chance was going to be catching lyoto off an attempted interception. Lyoto knew that and acted accordingly; basically potshotting hendo, keeping Dan from effectively countering or initiating offense. I found it to be a strategic...slow paced..tech fight...not boring at all.

Glad machida is back to being more measured...I thought he was going the chuck liddel route eschewing measured off district control timing and counter based game, to initiating off and looking to stop people.

Thanks, to you and panamaican for agreeing with my sentiments. It was a technically brilliant performance and, because I knew that Hendo could conceivably end it at any moment, I was biting my nails the whole time. Loved it. Especially considering that I was watching the fight with a bunch of "just bleed" fans who were constantly criticizing Machida for "running." I was smug as hell when he got the decision.

I was actually shocked that it was a split. I didn't see this fight as close in any sense of the word. Even if you were to give Dan the third round (which I don't think you should, given that he did virtually nothing with his "takedown"), the first two were definitively Machida's. Anyone scoring it otherwise is just feeling sorry for Dan.

 

[Zombles]

Machida fought a safe, disciplined fight but to pretend it was some masterful display of striking is overselling it a bit. he still looked incapable of checking leg kicks and only Dan's inflexibility helped mask that weakness, while Hendo looked sloppier and slower than usual and fixated entirely on his overhand right.

Lyoto landed a few solid kicks and knees to the body and one good low kick, couple good strikes from top position, few pawing straights off of kicks designed to land more than hurt. that was it over the course of 15 minutes. I had Machida clearly winning the fight but this was easily Machida's slowest and least eventful fight since Nakamura back in 2007, and the one where he seemed most content to eek out a small points victory. understandable given Hendo's power, but disappointing.

 

[Inquisitus]

That's the thing. Machida is not going to walk into an easily counterable situation. He times his offense for that moment when his opponent is fully committed to a specific movement - attacking, that moment when the opponent is resetting after an attack, that split second when the opponent is gathering for an attack, etc.

Dan never gave him a chance to get that timing down.

Personally, I prefer this style from him. I don't know that it beats JBJ but I definitely think it's the smarter approach given Machida's specific skill sets.

I don't think Machida even wanted to do that. He timed Dan a couple of times and i thought he could easily have done it any time. He had a couple of beautifully timed knees that could've led to takedowns. I think he was too respectful of Hendo's power and chin and wanted to minimize his exposure to them. That or Hendo started mostly off with leg kicks. Machida generally times off the initial move and off punches.

 

[panamaican]

I don't think Machida even wanted to do that. He timed Dan a couple of times and i thought he could easily have done it any time. He had a couple of beautifully timed knees that could've led to takedowns. I think he was too respectful of Hendo's power and chin and wanted to minimize his exposure to them. That or Hendo started mostly off with leg kicks. Machida generally times off the initial move and off punches.

I don't think it had anything to do with kicks vs. punches (he countered off of plenty of kicks leading up to, and including, Shogun I and he bit on a kick feint to get dropped in the JBJ fight).

He didn't want to get baited into rushing into Hendo's right ( so I agree that he respected Hendo's power) so he only countered on more obvious attacks from Hendo. But Hendo presented so many different set ups for the right hand that Machida couldn't always tell what was a legitimate attack vs. what might be a feint so he countered less often (not that he didn't time and counter attacks but his inability to adequately identify the set up meant less countering relative to some previous fights).

Of course, that's my analysis and since I'm not Machida, who knows if I'm right or wrong.

 

[Azam]

Wow, I'm pretty shocked by this. I was not only very entertained by the fight (on the edge of my seat the whole time), but I thought that Machida outstruck Hendo very clearly. Hendo had nothing for him but stiff-hipped low kicks, whereas Machida's own kicks looked powerful and clean. He kicked him to the ribs and it ripped Hendo off his feet, and another time he made the old man do the splits with an inside low kick. I thought that Machida's kicks looked their best yet. Fast as they've always been, but with much more power behind them.

I'm not of that opinion - Machida few very few strikes with the intention to hurt - the only thing that I remember that was done with some power was the knee he caught Hendo with - to be fair Hendo threw himself off-balance as well with some of his inside low kicks because he was just soo inflexible - I've seen better technical performances from Machida before, this wasn't one of them - his control of distance as usual was brilliant but apart from that nothing else really struck me as brilliant - especially more so when Hendo's lack of mobility really was playing to Machida's strengths.

But that's how Machida fights. Aside from a few low kicks to test your reactions, just about every strike he throws he makes count. Dan was throwing some strikes with bad intentions, but those were the only ones that weren't connecting. Conversely, the only attacks that were connecting for him were those awkward looking low kicks. Machida took Shogun's five round beating without showing any kind of limp; I'm confident that Hendo's kicks had no effect on him whatsoever. That's how Machida has always fought.

That's just the point, nearly every strike he threw didn't flinch Hendo nor caused any visible or physical damage - it was like he was just trying to rack up points rather than attempt to beat his opponent - that is why I was disappointed I think he was too cautious for my liking (usually he is cautious but not the way he was last night), also Hendo walked through most of it & just like Machida could walk through all those kicks from Hendo - he probably could of kept walking through everything Machida threw (until he'd naturally tire out).

Those rear inside low kicks were awful technically from Hendo, yet many of them still landed - they didn't cause much damage but they did rack up points - and on one occasion in the third - took Machida off-balance giving Hendo the opportunity to take him to ground.

Like I said, I was riveted. I thought Machida displayed some beautiful technique. And just to emphasize that, a few more seconds for the highlight reel:

I'm truly mystified by people saying that Machida did nothing but run. This is how Machida fights. We can't criticize him for getting knocked out in exchanges and refusing to get caught up in exchanges. He picks his shots, and I thought he did so masterfully.

I don't think I saw any really beautiful technique displayed by either of them - Hendo & Machida - the knee from Machida was nice & the inside leg kick which allowed Hendo to take him to ground in 3rd was nicely done - the only thing that I loved from Machida was the de ashi barai (foot sweep) he used from the clinch on Henderson which you shown a gif of - that's really only it - I've seen much better technical performances from Machida in the past - this unfortunately didn't even shadow in comparison. Highlight reels show seconds of footage at various points - keeping in mind that the fight was 15mins - even Chuck I recall Rogan saying was asking 'did they even land anything.'


I think people wanted - the ordinary fans, wanted to see action & be entertained - we have to remember they don't necessarily appreciate stuff we might - I appreciated the brilliance of Machida's distance control - thought he did extremely well with it - but he lacked in other areas for me.

EDIT: Sometimes I wonder whether they should bring back fights - where the fight only ends in submission, KO, TKO or forfeit with no time limit - even though it wouldn't be possible for many reasons - it would present a better representation of who the better fighter is - it would also prevent fighters from fighting for a decision rather than to win. On a good note: looks like womens MMA is here to stay, will be interesting to see how it develops in the ufc.

 

[LJD]

Just watched the fight so I figured I'd chime in even though I'm a bit late to the party.

I definitely thought Machida won at least the first 2 rounds, possibly the 3rd as well, though that was close. Hendo had top position for about a minute and a half in that round, but when they got up he looked pretty lifeless to be honest and mainly just stood there getting kicked by Machida. I think Hendo may have been gassed by that point, missing big shots for 3 rounds is pretty tiring.

That foot sweep by Machida was awesome, so smooth. He landed two good shots while Hendo was on his back there too. It looked like Hendo connected on a decent right hand at one point in the first round but Machida wasn't hurt, obviously Machida doesn't have an iron chin but I think it's still pretty solid.

Machida fought a good fight for the most part and I didn't really notice much difference in his style. He is all about speed and precision with both kicks and punches, he never really loads up on anything, and his attacks looked the same in this fight as they usually do to me. The thing is, with a guy as tough and hard to hurt as Hendo, if you don't catch him right on the button he'll just eat it, and Machida just didn't land anything there. He landed a couple good body and leg shots, but none of his head shots stunned Hendo, so he smartly got out of there. Is it a fight I'm dying to rewatch? No, but I wasn't bored either.

I don't think Hendo's strategy was a problem. He's 42 years old and isn't going to change much as a fighter at this stage of the game. To beat a striker as good as Machida, his best chance is a big punch, which is what he was looking for the whole fight. He tried to set it up a couple different ways too. Machida is susceptible to leg kicks, but you have to be a very good kicker (like Shogun) to land those with power against him. Hendo doesn't have amazing kicks and wasn't going to develop kicks good enough to beat Machida over one training camp.

 

[aries]

Machida clearly won in my eyes landing the only really significant shots in that fight. The fact that Hendo could survive a direct hit from a MOAB is neither here nor there, Machida landed the harder shots. Machida was playing safety first and who can blame him. Several wild swings whistled past his head. Henderson was just looking to land that big right with his usual inside low kick setup. Machida did enough to win and no more. He could have stood his ground more and I'm sure he would have done if he had of been confident he could have stopped Henderson but that was a big question mark that he obviously wasn't willing to risk.

 

[KarateStylist]

---QuoteChop---
I don't think I saw any really beautiful technique displayed by either of them - Hendo & Machida - the knee from Machida was nice & the inside leg kick which allowed Hendo to take him to ground in 3rd was nicely done - the only thing that I loved from Machida was the de ashi barai (foot sweep) he used from the clinch on Henderson which you shown a gif of - that's really only it - I've seen much better technical performances from Machida in the past - this unfortunately didn't even shadow in comparison. Highlight reels show seconds of footage at various points - keeping in mind that the fight was 15mins - even Chuck I recall Rogan saying was asking 'did they even land anything.'

^^^ Would of been nice if Lyoto had finished Hendo upon the takedown.... that would have made the fight in everyone's eyes....

>>> Think of it, Machida finishing on the ground, a 1st that would have propelled his standing immensely.... :icon_excl

TheKarateStylist

 

[Discipulus]

^^^ Would of been nice if Lyoto had finished Hendo upon the takedown.... that would have made the fight in everyone's eyes....

>>> Think of it, Machida finishing on the ground, a 1st that would have propelled his standing immensely.... :icon_excl

TheKarateStylist

Michael McDonald, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, and Thiago Silva--all finished by Lyoto on the ground.

 

[D.R.H.]

Michael McDonald, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, and Thiago Silva--all finished by Lyoto on the ground.

Magoo!

 

[Discipulus]

Quick! Edit your comment and see if he comes up with that response himself.

 

[peanut66]

^^^ Would of been nice if Lyoto had finished Hendo upon the takedown.... that would have made the fight in everyone's eyes....

>>> Think of it, Machida finishing on the ground, a 1st that would have propelled his standing immensely.... :icon_excl

TheKarateStylist

what did you get the dubs for "karate man"

 

[Discipulus]

Magoo!

Hahahaha :icon_lol:

I'm waaaaiiiting...

 

[KarateStylist]

Michael McDonald, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, and Thiago Silva--all finished by Lyoto on the ground.

I was thinking of Lyoto's UFC career. So Sokoudjou is the only one who 'counts.'

TheKarateStylist