I bought a PS4. Now what?

[SaiWa]

You are talking user base, not back compatablity wise I see.

Because one generation of back compat does not “get ahead of competition “ when they go three consoles back and would presumably be 4 with a new Xbox.

But I seriously doubt many people look at that as a buying metric.

If you want a new console you probably aren’t caring what games from your old console you can play, you are caring what the next gen games are. It’s just a “nice to have”
But with online play like you are taking and how it has gotten so popular it might become more and more of a selling point in the near future.

No you are wrong. ps3/xbox360 was an era of disc gaming so people (myself included) bought hard copies. Backwards compatibility want as important because the leaps in hardware was very noticeable (ps1 to ps2 to ps3)... once u upgraded u didn’t really play the previous gen as much most of the time.

This last generation is the first true digital era as more games are being purchased digitally. I’ve never had such a large library of digital games on a console before PS4 and if the selling point is I can carry that over effortlessly to my PS5 that’s a huge bonus. The graphic quality drop off from PS5 from PS4 will be less noticeable than PS4 from To PS3. I do not care to carry over my ps3 games but my PS4 games? Yes please cause I’d still be trying to play them.

I am attached to my account now and it would take a slew of interesting exclusives for me to defect (or consider buying a 3rd console - behind Switch). If tomb raider 2 and 3 had been Xbox exclusive for example that might have driven me to buy an Xbox one. MS as of now has nothing good enough to make me switch over.

Ask @StabbyMcHatchet how he is doing with Horizon Zero Dawn. This is the sort of exclusive he had been missing out on but now that he switched over he gets to play it. I am actually very curious in his opinion as to whether he will stay with Xbox or go PS for the next generation if he only had to choose one. Most of his friends are on Xbox live so obviously he’d lean on there heavily but he’s about to discover how much better the exclusives on PS4 are and he can always make new gaming buddies (like me).

 

[Madmick]

No you are wrong. ps3/xbox360 was an era of disc gaming so people (myself included) bought hard copies. Backwards compatibility want as important because the leaps in hardware was very noticeable (ps1 to ps2 to ps3)... once u upgraded u didn’t really play the previous gen as much most of the time.

This last generation is the first true digital era as more games are being purchased digitally. I’ve never had such a large library of digital games on a console before PS4 and if the selling point is I can carry that over effortlessly to my PS5 that’s a huge bonus. The graphic quality drop off from PS5 from PS4 will be less noticeable than PS4 from To PS3. I do not care to carry over my ps3 games but my PS4 games? Yes please cause I’d still be trying to play them.

I am attached to my account now and it would take a slew of interesting exclusives for me to defect (or consider buying a 3rd console - behind Switch). If tomb raider 2 and 3 had been Xbox exclusive for example that might have driven me to buy an Xbox one. MS as of now has nothing good enough to make me switch over.

Ask @StabbyMcHatchet how he is doing with Horizon Zero Dawn. This is the sort of exclusive he had been missing out on but now that he switched over he gets to play it. I am actually very curious in his opinion as to whether he will stay with Xbox or go PS for the next generation if he only had to choose one. Most of his friends are on Xbox live so obviously he’d lean on there heavily but he’s about to discover how much better the exclusives on PS4 are and he can always make new gaming buddies (like me).

LOL, how? This is all built on a hypothetical in the first place; speculation the PS5 will be released in 2019 or 2020. It's impossible for me to be wrong. Let's go over "wrong" as an objective value.

I have pointed out that past Naughty Dog releases have not coincided with the launch of a new console. That is an irrefutable, objective truth. Our hypothetical entertains the timeline that TLOU2 will deviate from this past, and coincide with the launch of the PS5. This is a studio renowned for graphic sophistication, and this is one of the most popular games ever made. It's perfectly suited to launch a new system.

Furthermore, while this generation is digital, it isn't predominantly digital, yet. Sony's Q4 data for 2017 shows that 43% of sales are digital, with 34% of the sales on the year digital, so even the most recent full year in the PS4's life saw physical sales predominate. In fact, 66% of polled console players in 2018 still testify they prefer physical media. Not that this matters. Your point about physical media is as nonsensical as your declaration that you didn't care about having your PS3 library on PS4, but now you care about having your PS4 library on the PS5. What a random, illogical, peculiar sentiment. What does it matter if your library is digital or physical? Blu-Ray technology subsumes past optical drive technology; is capable of running DVD-ROM discs, and DVD-ROM discs are capable of running CD-ROM discs. There is no reason they couldn't have built the PS4 to run PS3 discs, and there is no reason the PS3 couldn't have run PS2 discs. This wasn't the cartridge-to-disc evolution. Why do you think they didn't? They deliberately wanted your older libraries to be obsolete. They wanted to sell their newest consoles. They wanted to sell PSNow.

You think they're just going to drop PSNow after all the work they've put into it? That's how they intend for you to play your PS4 games on the PS5. You know that because it's what they're doing right now. Subscription-based goldmine. Steady, reliable, fat income stream.

Do you think Sony gives a shit that you are "attached to your account"? If they release the PS5 they will do so because they intend to sell it. They will want it to be a success. If all they do is bend over backwards neutralizing incentives for gamers to buy the new unit of course none of their PS4 base will upgrade. That is a disastrous market strategy. Their priority is not your contentment. Their priority is maintaining market dominance through the next generation so that they continue to sell the most games. Your contentment is only a forced consideration to their primary purpose, and that is to make money.

After all, there is zero possibility you will be able to port your PS4 library to the Xbox One's successor. What threat do they face from your competitor by denying you this? They only have to weigh the possibility Microsoft will allow this, and the potential you will be so wounded you decide to abandon Sony out of spite in which case you don't get to keep your library, anyway, when by offering a subscription through PSNow you don't have to repurchase all of your games. They will calculate that you'll prefer the latter option over starting over from scratch, and for almost all gamers they will be right. The customers they'll factor to lose in that scenario are those who own both consoles, and they'll simultaneously calculate that these customers will be more likely to buy both new consoles, anyway.

 

[SaiWa]

LOL, how? This is all built on a hypothetical in the first place; speculation the PS5 will be released in 2019 or 2020. It's impossible for me to be wrong. Let's go over "wrong" as an objective value.

I have pointed out that past Naughty Dog releases have not coincided with the launch of a new console. That is an irrefutable, objective truth. Our hypothetical entertains the timeline that TLOU2 will deviate from this past, and coincide with the launch of the PS5. This is a studio renowned for graphic sophistication, and this is one of the most popular games ever made. It's perfectly suited to launch a new system.

Furthermore, while this generation is digital, it isn't predominantly digital, yet. Sony's Q4 data for 2017 shows that 43% of sales are digital, with 34% of the sales on the year digital, so even the most recent full year in the PS4's life saw physical sales predominate. In fact, 66% of polled console players in 2018 still testify they prefer physical media. Not that this matters. Your point about physical media is as nonsensical as your declaration that you didn't care about having your PS3 library on PS4, but now you care about having your PS4 library on the PS5. What a random, illogical, peculiar sentiment. What does it matter if your library is digital or physical? Blu-Ray technology subsumes past optical drive technology; is capable of running DVD-ROM discs, and DVD-ROM discs are capable of running CD-ROM discs. There is no reason they couldn't have built the PS4 to run PS3 discs, and there is no reason the PS3 couldn't have run PS2 discs. This wasn't the cartridge-to-disc evolution. Why do you think they didn't? They deliberately wanted your older libraries to be obsolete. They wanted to sell their newest consoles. They wanted to sell PSNow.

You think they're just going to drop PSNow after all the work they've put into it? That's how they intend for you to play your PS4 games on the PS5. You know that because it's what they're doing right now. Subscription-based goldmine. Steady, reliable, fat income stream.

Do you think Sony gives a shit that you are "attached to your account"? If they release the PS5 they will do so because they intend to sell it. They will want it to be a success. If all they do is bend over backwards neutralizing incentives for gamers to buy the new unit of course none of their PS4 base will upgrade. That is a disastrous market strategy. Their priority is not your contentment. Their priority is maintaining market dominance through the next generation so that they continue to sell the most games. Your contentment is only a forced consideration to their primary purpose, and that is to make money.

After all, there is zero possibility you will be able to port your PS4 library to the Xbox One's successor. What threat do they face from your competitor by denying you this? They only have to weigh the possibility Microsoft will allow this, and the potential you will be so wounded you decide to abandon Sony out of spite in which case you don't get to keep your library, anyway, when by offering a subscription through PSNow you don't have to repurchase all of your games. They will calculate that you'll prefer the latter option over starting over from scratch, and for almost all gamers they will be right. The customers they'll factor to lose in that scenario are those who own both consoles, and they'll simultaneously calculate that these customers will be more likely to buy both new consoles, anyway.

Yes no shit that Naughty Dog releases have not coincided with any consoles unless it was conveniently in line with Naughty's schedule which is exactly what i've been telling you. They've always marched at their own beat. If PS5 releases is pushed ahead of schedule to 2019 (which is very VERY unlikely to happen based on all i've read so far) Naughty will go ahead and release TLOU2 for PS4 first. And I daresay after some careful thoughts I am pretty sure if for some miraculous reasons they push the schedule ahead for PS5 and announce that TLOU2 will also drop for PS5 it won't be a timed release (PS5 first then PS4) but a release for both PS4 and PS5 (just like Nintendo released Zelda BOTW for both Wii U and Switch). Reputation means a lot to Naughty Dog and they understand their fans. They'll get a huge chunk of sales in PS4 and people like me who will upgrade to a PS5 immediately to play it. It's a complete win win for Naughty and Sony without any underhanded moves you believe they will do. PS5 will sell itself as long as it isn't outrageously too expensive (like PS3 upon release but that was because they were trying to do too much with that console and won't be repeating that mistake again).

As with your digital input. It's nice that you pulled up the digital sales but what you fail to see is that it is shifting drastically to digital. Your numbers are for 2017. I am pretty sure the numbers for 2018 will tell a different story as console digital sales will reach above 50%. The reason is because i (someone who's generally always bought and preferred disc) has finally made the switch over to digital. There are only 2 things preventing digital from completely dominating hard disc sales (internet speed and price - as your article states). But ask the average PS4 gamer if he has more digital or disc games and this person will tell you that they have more digital (thanks to the free games from PS Plus). The convenience and ease in installing and deleting games at will through your account is a huge draw for gamers like me.

As for backwards compatibility the main reason is the cell architecture they adopted for the PS3 which they dropped for the PS4. They made a horrible mistake with PS3 because they thought people wanted a living room system that is capable of doing everything. This is the main reason why backwards compatibility was not implemented from PS2 to PS3 and PS3 to PS4 because they would have needed to emulate (and the newer consoles were not strong enough to do it). You are well aware of this. Sony has now embraced x86-64 architechture so back wards compatibility issue will be a thing of the past. And this will be a throw in to satisfy us because Sony knows they have no excuse not to give it to us. It used to be a hardware tech problem but that no longer is the issue. Even now they may still have a problem emulating PS3 games but at least they have all their PS2 and PS1 games to fall back on.

PS NOW? Meh if that floats your boat. They have to offer PS NOW and PS Plus and they won't abandon PS Plus accounts. I don't even know why you feel the need to mention this. I am happy with PS Plus account and my monthly free games. If they stopped PS Plus and forced all of us to PS NOW it would lead to a revolt and players who switch over to xbox (or steam PC). Yes they have a cash cow with PS Now but they still need to take care of us PS Plus players...

As for strategizing for PS5 sales you do realize what the draw for that is? True 4K and better VR capability. They have plenty of additional incentives for us to upgrade. They don't have to wait for TLOU2 when PS5 comes out because they have plenty of other franchises and IPs to fall back on. Naughty Dog will undoubtedly make a remastered version for PS5 and plenty of fans will double dip. The price of the playstation5 is the crux of the matter. PS4 launched without that many great games and they still ended u dominating the console war. Why do you think they can't repeat it again with PS5? They understand gamers better than you. Sony focuses on brand loyalty and they know not to insult their gamers (like the fiasco with xbox one at E3). it will be backwards compatible and there won't be any timed released shenanigans.

 

[rikwebb]

First lot of PS3's did have the PS2 CPU and GPU combined in one chip in them then they took it out.

Theres also been quite a few patents in the last 18months or so from Sony and Mark Cerny that are looking to be Backwards Compatiblity related.

 

[Madmick]

Yes no shit that Naughty Dog releases have not coincided with any consoles unless it was conveniently in line with Naughty's schedule which is exactly what i've been telling you. They've always marched at their own beat. If PS5 releases is pushed ahead of schedule to 2019 (which is very VERY unlikely to happen based on all i've read so far) Naughty will go ahead and release TLOU2 for PS4 first.

Duh. This is not the hypothetical. This is the operating market assumption. If you had followed the thread conversation before chiming in you would have realized this.

And I daresay after some careful thoughts I am pretty sure if for some miraculous reasons they push the schedule ahead for PS5 and announce that TLOU2 will also drop for PS5 it won't be a timed release (PS5 first then PS4) but a release for both PS4 and PS5 (just like Nintendo released Zelda BOTW for both Wii U and Switch). Reputation means a lot to Naughty Dog and they understand their fans. They'll get a huge chunk of sales in PS4 and people like me who will upgrade to a PS5 immediately to play it.

If it is on PS4 there is no incentive to upgrade to PS5 to play it. They might treat it like Zelda, but that's unlikely for three major reasons:

1. The Wii U was a flop
2. The Wii U had a weak library, and only a 4 1/2 lifespan
   
3. The Switch debuted at a paltry $299 which isn't a difficult price point to push new hardware-- doesn't need a hook

Your argument is best rooted in the logic Naughty Dog's market is much larger if they also develop a nerfed version capable of running on the PS4's hardware. But that doesn't matter if Sony is willing to throw money at them to restrict it to the PS5. Mainstream gamers won't despise Naughty Dog just because a game is only on one system. They'll fuss, then they'll salivate, then they'll upgrade. That's the point.

It's a complete win win for Naughty and Sony without any underhanded moves you believe they will do. PS5 will sell itself as long as it isn't outrageously too expensive (like PS3 upon release but that was because they were trying to do too much with that console and won't be repeating that mistake again).

As with your digital input. It's nice that you pulled up the digital sales but what you fail to see is that it is shifting drastically to digital. Your numbers are for 2017. I am pretty sure the numbers for 2018 will tell a different story as console digital sales will reach above 50%. The reason is because i (someone who's generally always bought and preferred disc) has finally made the switch over to digital. There are only 2 things preventing digital from completely dominating hard disc sales (internet speed and price - as your article states). But ask the average PS4 gamer if he has more digital or disc games and this person will tell you that they have more digital (thanks to the free games from PS Plus). The convenience and ease in installing and deleting games at will through your account is a huge draw for gamers like me.

That final quarter was the one terminating on March 31st, 2018, and the PS4 launched in 2013, but the concession that this isn't the first "true digital" generation is accepted.

Again, physical or digital media has no bearing on the ease with which one can port a library (nor on their ability to register your intellectual ownership of that property in the cloud which is also possible with a freshly redeemed disc after install). You're clawing to find a point in technological arguments you don't possess the comprehension to make.

As for backwards compatibility the main reason is the cell architecture they adopted for the PS3 which they dropped for the PS4. They made a horrible mistake with PS3 because they thought people wanted a living room system that is capable of doing everything. This is the main reason why backwards compatibility was not implemented from PS2 to PS3 and PS3 to PS4 because they would have needed to emulate (and the newer consoles were not strong enough to do it). You are well aware of this. Sony has now embraced x86-64 architechture so back wards compatibility issue will be a thing of the past. And this will be a throw in to satisfy us because Sony knows they have no excuse not to give it to us. It used to be a hardware tech problem but that no longer is the issue. Even now they may still have a problem emulating PS3 games but at least they have all their PS2 and PS1 games to fall back on.

Case in point: no, they wouldn't need to "emulate" PS3 games to the PS4. They would need to port them. It would have been far more laborious to rewrite the code from the Cell to x86, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's evident you have confused this roadblock with digital vs. physical media. Indeed, it will improve easier than ever before for them to port games to the next generation, but that reality already exists between PS4 and Xbox One (both Jaguar) or PS4 & PC, and yet exclusives exist. If developers were after the largest market why would exclusives exist at all?

PS NOW? Meh if that floats your boat. They have to offer PS NOW and PS Plus and they won't abandon PS Plus accounts. I don't even know why you feel the need to mention this. I am happy with PS Plus account and my monthly free games. If they stopped PS Plus and forced all of us to PS NOW it would lead to a revolt and players who switch over to xbox (or steam PC). Yes they have a cash cow with PS Now but they still need to take care of us PS Plus players...

As for strategizing for PS5 sales you do realize what the draw for that is? True 4K and better VR capability. They have plenty of additional incentives for us to upgrade. They don't have to wait for TLOU2 when PS5 comes out because they have plenty of other franchises and IPs to fall back on. Naughty Dog will undoubtedly make a remastered version for PS5 and plenty of fans will double dip. The price of the playstation5 is the crux of the matter. PS4 launched without that many great games and they still ended u dominating the console war. Why do you think they can't repeat it again with PS5? They understand gamers better than you. Sony focuses on brand loyalty and they know not to insult their gamers (like the fiasco with xbox one at E3). it will be backwards compatible and there won't be any timed released shenanigans.

It's not about what "floats my boat". It's about what makes Sony money. PS Now and PS Plus are not competing services. PS Plus will exist on the PS5. That's their online network subscription service. That doesn't mean your PS4 library will. PS Now is how Sony monetizes the previous generation's libraries.

You are making puerile that root your presumptions in your personal prospective desires, and not in Sony's profit motive.

 

[Madmick]

First lot of PS3's did have the PS2 CPU and GPU combined in one chip in them then they took it out.

Theres also been quite a few patents in the last 18months or so from Sony and Mark Cerny that are looking to be Backwards Compatiblity related.

Those are required for PS Now so that doesn't tell us much.

 

[90 50]

 

[Madmick]

Never expected to be drawn into defending the logical virtue of a hypothetical assumption in this fashion. It could obviously go a different way, but it's absurd to assert that there isn't a lot of factors that favor Sony pushing ND into developing it as a PS5 exclusive should that console arrive so unexpectedly early.

 

[90 50]

Never expected to be drawn into defending the logical virtue of a hypothetical assumption in this fashion. It could obviously go a different way, but it's absurd to assert that there isn't a lot of factors that favor Sony pushing ND into developing it as a PS5 exclusive should that console arrive so unexpectedly early.

Right

 

[Madmick]

Dang sounds like the PS5 is truly a thing which will most likely be released for next Christmas. I guess six years is roughly the span between gen’s since ps1.

I remembered hearing speculation a couple years back when the pro was released that maybe we wouldn’t see actual hard line generations in consoles anymore, but that seemed overly optimistic.

I’m really interested to see what this will look like from a performance standpoint. @Madmick didnt Sony learn the hard way with the PS3 launch that pricing near serviceable gaming PC’s was a bad strategy? I remember reading that the price was pretty high at launch and that a lot of the sales were at discounted prices toward the very end of the generation.

Price is definitely the #1 reason they won the PS4/XB1 despite everything else they botched. Price is the single most important factor to sales hardware for console gamers.

We have seen inflation, and the PS4 Pro is already settling in at $399 which was the price point of the PS4 at launch. So I suspect they target a $449 price point or thereabouts with the new PS5.

Won't be hard to do. The updated AMD APU on the new Zen/Navi architecture really shouldn't add much to the BoM, and they tend to bleed money on the consoles at launch (they become slightly profitable later in their lifespan). They already use integrated GDDR5 RAM, so that doesn't add to the cost, nor will any of the other major components except for one: the hard drive. I suspect for the first time ever they will try to use an SSD for the hard drive. This is really challenging because game sizes are already swelling, and SSDs still aren't cheap (1TB SSDs are still hitting ~$105 sale floors while you'll see 1TB HDDs drop to $30). This has been the primary reason I have expected a later release for the PS5. I thought they were waiting for SSD prices to continue crashing. Just pure supply-side cost logistics. But if it comes this soon you can probably expect some sort of hybrid drive, and considering past console strategies with cost/performance trade-offs, that actually makes more sense.

 

[90 50]

Price is definitely the #1 reason they won the PS4/XB1 despite everything else they botched. Price is the single most important factor to sales hardware for console gamers.

We have seen inflation, and the PS4 Pro is already settling in at $399 which was the price point of the PS4 at launch. So I suspect they target a $449 price point or thereabouts with the new PS5.

Won't be hard to do. The updated AMD APU on the new Zen/Navi architecture really shouldn't add much to the BoM, and they tend to bleed money on the consoles at launch (they become slightly profitable later in their lifespan). They already use integrated GDDR5 RAM, so that doesn't add to the cost, nor will any of the other major components except for one: the hard drive. I suspect for the first time ever they will try to use an SSD for the hard drive. This is really challenging because game sizes are already swelling, and SSDs still aren't cheap (1TB SSDs are still hitting ~$105 sale floors while you'll see 1TB HDDs drop to $30). This has been the primary reason I have expected a later release for the PS5. I thought they were waiting for SSD prices to continue crashing. Just pure supply-side cost logistics. But if it comes this soon you can probably expect some sort of hybrid drive, and considering past console strategies with cost/performance trade-offs, that actually makes more sense.

The ssd vs hdd pricing point of today has just made their consoles more profitable. In the way 360 launch days hdd prices for big drives were at ssd or higher price point themselves.

I think they might try a similar pricing structure where say the 250gb ssd model is the 449.00 one and the 500 and 1t ones would be higher.

I’ve had a ssd plugged into my one for almost its whole life.

I think they will at least have a small ssd in it for the OS and a game or two with the option for larger drive models or sell PS5 ssd’s to usb plug in.

 

[SaiWa]

Duh. This is not the hypothetical. This is the operating market assumption. If you had followed the thread conversation before chiming in you would have realized this.

I did follow the thread convo. Your speculation/hypothesis are all over the place and in contradiction to the facts and history with Naughty Dog.

If it is on PS4 there is no incentive to upgrade to PS5 to play it. They might treat it like Zelda, but that's unlikely for three major reasons:

1. The Wii U was a flop
2. The Wii U had a weak library, and only a 4 1/2 lifespan
   
3. The Switch debuted at a paltry $299 which isn't a difficult price point to push new hardware-- doesn't need a hook

Your argument is best rooted in the logic Naughty Dog's market is much larger if they also develop a nerfed version capable of running on the PS4's hardware. But that doesn't matter if Sony is willing to throw money at them to restrict it to the PS5. Mainstream gamers won't despise Naughty Dog just because a game is only on one system. They'll fuss, then they'll salivate, then they'll upgrade. That's the point.

IF??? LOL.

There is no ifs or buts. TLOU2 will be released first on the PS4 (if not then simultaneously with the PS5). They've been designing this game since 2014 with the PS4 in mind. You can assume all you want about Sony throwing money at Naughty to hold their game back for PS5 launch and they will still release it for PS4 at the same time. 70+ million PS4 systems globally will demand it. PS5 dev kits were only released to certain developers this year (and Naughty Dog would definitely be one of them) so for them to shift out of PS4 production to PS5 at this stage is asinine to say the least. You're also operating on the assumption that PS5 NEEDS TLOU2 for the release. They do not as ive stated previously. They have plenty of other IPs to fall back on.

That final quarter was the one terminating on March 31st, 2018, and the PS4 launched in 2013, but the concession that this isn't the first "true digital" generation is accepted.

Again, physical or digital media has no bearing on the ease with which one can port a library (nor on their ability to register your intellectual ownership of that property in the cloud which is also possible with a freshly redeemed disc after install). You're clawing to find a point in technological arguments you don't possess the comprehension to make.

I have conceded nothing. This generation will be the one where digital overtakes physical sales. If not this year (and i think it will) then next year.

There is no reason they couldn't have built the PS4 to run PS3 discs, and there is no reason the PS3 couldn't have run PS2 discs
Case in point: no, they wouldn't need to "emulate" PS3 games to the PS4. They would need to port them. It would have been far more laborious to rewrite the code from the Cell to x86, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's evident you have confused this roadblock with digital vs. physical media. Indeed, it will improve easier than ever before for them to port games to the next generation, but that reality already exists between PS4 and Xbox One (both Jaguar) or PS4 & PC, and yet exclusives exist. If developers were after the largest market why would exclusives exist at all?

I only brought this up because you stated "There is no reason they couldn't have built the PS4 to run PS3 discs, and there is no reason the PS3 couldn't have run PS2 discs". Umm yeah there was. The technology embedded into the PS3 prevented them from doing it without incurring a high cost. You'd think Sony and all the other companies would spend resources on rewriting the codes from cell to x86 for the sole purpose of backwards compatibility? That makes no business sense at all. You're the tech expert in here and i am laughing at your suggestion here. The fact is they couldn't do it because they fucked up with PS3 but PS4 went back to x86 and PS5 will continue that trend so backwards compatibility will be easy as shit to implement. There have no problems porting those games into the account because in the end a very SMALL amount of players actually use backwards compatibility feature to play older games. Look that shit up yourself.

It's not about what "floats my boat". It's about what makes Sony money. PS Now and PS Plus are not competing services. PS Plus will exist on the PS5. That's their online network subscription service. That doesn't mean your PS4 library will. PS Now is how Sony monetizes the previous generation's libraries.

You are making puerile that root your presumptions in your personal prospective desires, and not in Sony's profit motive.

You overvalue the impact that backwards compatibility will have on console sales and newer game sales. Gamers will buy the hottest and newest consoles/games regardless of how many older games they possess. Steam is the perfect example. I have 200+ games on steam with a solid amount of AAA and highly graded games i havent touched yet but i am still buying new games. You think it'll be a crutch on sales whereas i think it will be an excellent selling point for the PS5. When people are ready to jump to the next console, they will and some extra weight will be placed on backwards compatibility. Gamers like me who haven't played Nioh even though i bought it on sale will be happy to know i can still play it on my PS5 if I choose to...

 

[Madmick]

I did follow the thread convo. Your speculation/hypothesis are all over the place and in contradiction to the facts and history with Naughty Dog.

IF??? LOL.

There is no ifs or buts. TLOU2 will be released first on the PS4 (if not then simultaneously with the PS5). They've been designing this game since 2014 with the PS4 in mind. You can assume all you want about Sony throwing money at Naughty to hold their game back for PS5 launch and they will still release it for PS4 at the same time. 70+ million PS4 systems globally will demand it. PS5 dev kits were only released to certain developers this year (and Naughty Dog would definitely be one of them) so for them to shift out of PS4 production to PS5 at this stage is asinine to say the least. You're also operating on the assumption that PS5 NEEDS TLOU2 for the release. They do not as ive stated previously. They have plenty of other IPs to fall back on.

I have conceded nothing. This generation will be the one where digital overtakes physical sales. If not this year (and i think it will) then next year.

I only brought this up because you stated "There is no reason they couldn't have built the PS4 to run PS3 discs, and there is no reason the PS3 couldn't have run PS2 discs". Umm yeah there was. The technology embedded into the PS3 prevented them from doing it without incurring a high cost. You'd think Sony and all the other companies would spend resources on rewriting the codes from cell to x86 for the sole purpose of backwards compatibility? That makes no business sense at all. You're the tech expert in here and i am laughing at your suggestion here. The fact is they couldn't do it because they fucked up with PS3 but PS4 went back to x86 and PS5 will continue that trend so backwards compatibility will be easy as shit to implement. There have no problems porting those games into the account because in the end a very SMALL amount of players actually use backwards compatibility feature to play older games. Look that shit up yourself.

You overvalue the impact that backwards compatibility will have on console sales and newer game sales. Gamers will buy the hottest and newest consoles/games regardless of how many older games they possess. Steam is the perfect example. I have 200+ games on steam with a solid amount of AAA and highly graded games i havent touched yet but i am still buying new games. You think it'll be a crutch on sales whereas i think it will be an excellent selling point for the PS5. When people are ready to jump to the next console, they will and some extra weight will be placed on backwards compatibility. Gamers like me who haven't played Nioh even though i bought it on sale will be happy to know i can still play it on my PS5 if I choose to...

You've already demonstrated an childish ignorance of the fundamental truths surrounding the apparatuses you are trying to debate. Examples are that you don't even understand the difference between a port and emulation, and you fail to understand the distinct service needs that PS Plus and PS Now are intended to fill.

I feel like I'm arguing with a homeless person about the economy.

 

[SaiWa]

You've already demonstrated an childish ignorance of the fundamental truths surrounding the apparatuses you are trying to debate. Examples are that you don't even understand the difference between a port and emulation, and you fail to understand the distinct service needs that PS Plus and PS Now are intended to fill.

I feel like I'm arguing with a homeless person about the economy.

You’re the same clown that predicted the Switch wouldn’t do well and ended up eating crow. As far as I am concerned your speculative abilities at predicting what will happen for TLOU2 release are laughingly out of synch with realities.

 

[Madmick]

You’re the same clown that predicted the Switch wouldn’t do well and ended up eating crow. As far as I am concerned your speculative abilities at predicting what will happen for TLOU2 release are laughingly out of synch with realities.

*sync, genius

Looks like I hit a nerve.

I also predicted the rise of AMD, and you were nowhere to be seen. That's the thing about taking swings.

Spoiler: Off-topic Nintendo Switch chatter

I have already readily admitted being wrong about the Switch's success in terms of console sales. It happens. Nevertheless, the sheen from 2017 has worn off. Have you kept up?

It still manages to outsell the Xbox One, only slightly, when it was released a full four years after the launch of the Xbox One. It has been re-eclipsed by the PS4 despite that the latter is similarly long in the tooth. In fact, did you know that you can add together the sales of the Switch and the Wii U, which was released a year before the Xbox One, and the XB1 still has~4m more total consoles sold?

Not that this is the real measuring stick for platform dominance. It's software tie-in.

Nintendo's total revenues for 2017 quoted in your source is 489bn yen. Sony's gaming division did 443bn yen in Q2 alone, last year.

The 2018 and 2019 forecasts from your source are hopelessly optimistic unless there's another Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, and Splatoon scheduled for release in the next 8-20 months. These four games alone account for 58% of all tracked physical sales on the platform (which accounted for over 80% of sales on the platform last I checked).

From a business point of view, it remains an extraordinarily top-heavy library with overall poor software tie-in, and with virtually zero presence in terms of network subscription-based revenue, or among the most successful "games-as-a-service" franchises with stiff perpetual revenue streams.

Notice the Switch still depends on 80%+ physical sales versus that 57% for the PS4 as recently as Q4 of last year. The Xbox One has a similar base.

In 2018 the #1 game in terms of physical sales for the Switch is Kirby with 1.68m physical units sold. Meanwhile, the #1 game for the PS4 is RDR2 with 6.51m physical units sold. Just last month the XB1 sold 1.1m combined total copies of RDR2 and COD:BLOPS 3 alone. Every game tracked for the Switch in sum couldn't reach 600k sales. Let these numerical facts sink in.

It's in its second year, and the Switch is already becoming a dust collector.

So while the Switch has done better than I expected in terms of hardware sales it has proven the distant 3rd place settler in the console landscape, too, with Nintendo complacent to accept their fate as a niche console pursuing ROI as a business-- exactly as I also predicted. I based this in the fact they couldn't compete on an absolute scale in the new multi-platform environment we live in. I don't recall you sharing these predictions.

This is the virtue of knowledge over feelings. In the end it prevails.

*Edit*
Oh, for like the fourth time, I suppose I should highlight that I haven't even made a prediction, here. I've simply argued the sound logical foundation of the hypothesis that TLOU2 might be used as a platform exclusive to launch and sell the PS5 should it arrive early.

 

[SaiWa]

*sync, genius

Looks like I hit a nerve.

I also predicted the rise of AMD, and you were nowhere to be seen. That's the thing about taking swings.

Spoiler: Off-topic Nintendo Switch chatter

I have already readily admitted being wrong about the Switch's success in terms of console sales. It happens. Nevertheless, the sheen from 2017 has worn off. Have you kept up?

It still manages to outsell the Xbox One, only slightly, when it was released a full four years after the launch of the Xbox One. It has been re-eclipsed by the PS4 despite that the latter is similarly long in the tooth. In fact, did you know that you can add together the sales of the Switch and the Wii U, which was released a year before the Xbox One, and the XB1 still has~4m more total consoles sold?

Not that this is the real measuring stick for platform dominance. It's software tie-in.

Notice the Switch still depends on 80%+ physical sales versus that 57% for the PS4 as recently as Q4 of last year. The Xbox One has a similar base.

In 2018 the #1 game in terms of physical sales for the Switch is Kirby with 1.68m physical units sold. Meanwhile, the #1 game for the PS4 is RDR2 with 6.51m physical units sold. Just last month the XB1 sold 1.1m combined total copies of RDR2 and COD:BLOPS 3 alone. Every game tracked for the Switch in sum couldn't reach 600k sales. Let these numerical facts sink in.

It's in its second year, and the Switch is already becoming a dust collector.

So while the Switch has done better than I expected in terms of hardware sales it has proven the distant 3rd place settler in the console landscape, too, with Nintendo complacent to accept their fate as a niche console pursuing ROI as a business-- exactly as I also predicted. I based this in the fact they couldn't compete on an absolute scale in the new multi-platform environment we live in. I don't recall you sharing these predictions.

This is the virtue of knowledge over feelings. In the end it prevails.

Lol what an amusing post considering few if any Nintendo fan claimed that the Switch was seeking first place. Their goal has always been to be the other console and they are not in direct competition with PS4. They are arguably in competition with Xbox as their total console sales may eclipse Xbox one. Gamers such as myself who might have considered buying an Xbox one for a 2nd console bought the Switch instead.

As for software sales. Smash ultimate is about to eclipse Kirby this year. They’ve already sold a mil in Japan alone in the first week.

The difference with the Switch and other Nintendo consoles is it is finally being supported by a solid list of 3rd party companies. We are only in year 2 and the Switch already has a good list of games. Those Doom games I never got a chance to play. Guess what I am gonna play them on my Switch. They’ll happily pick up port sales.

Bragging about something we all knew was going to happen doesn’t change the fact you will be wrong about TLOU2 release.

 

[Madmick]

Lol what an amusing post considering few if any Nintendo fan claimed that the Switch was seeking first place. Their goal has always been to be the other console and they are not in direct competition with PS4. They are arguably in competition with Xbox as their total console sales may eclipse Xbox one. Gamers such as myself who might have considered buying an Xbox one for a 2nd console bought the Switch instead.

As for software sales. Smash ultimate is about to eclipse Kirby this year. They’ve already sold a mil in Japan alone in the first week.

The difference with the Switch and other Nintendo consoles is it is finally being supported by a solid list of 3rd party companies. We are only in year 2 and the Switch already has a good list of games. Those Doom games I never got a chance to play. Guess what I am gonna play them on my Switch. They’ll happily pick up port sales.

Bragging about something we all knew was going to happen doesn’t change the fact you will be wrong about TLOU2 release.

That's almost as much as RDR2 in its first week for the XB1 (1.62m). Turns out I read that chart wrong. It was the weekly chart for the most recent week ending in November.

In fact, if you look at global software by platform, the Switch sold 35.75m physical units in 2018 compared to 33.96m for the Xbox One. Extrapolate their respective physical vs. digital markets, and the Switch still finished in a distant 2nd place to the XB1 (~44.69m vs. ~59.58m total games estimated sold). Alas, you are wrong. The Switch is no #2.

This also doesn't factor in the huge subscription revenue of the Xbox Live Gold memberships.

 

[SaiWa]

That's almost as much as RDR2 in its first week for the XB1 (1.62m). Turns out I read that chart wrong. It was the weekly chart for the most recent week ending in November.

In fact, if you look at global software by platform, the Switch sold 35.75m physical units in 2018 compared to 33.96m for the Xbox One. Extrapolate their respective physical vs. digital markets, and the Switch still finished in a distant 2nd place to the XB1 (~44.69m vs. ~59.58m total games estimated sold). Alas, you are wrong. The Switch is no #2.

This also doesn't factor in the huge subscription revenue of the Xbox Live Gold memberships.

Lol you need to read better..

Ultimate sold 1.2 mil IN JAPAN in the first week. RDR2 sold 130k in Japan for the first week for PS4...

Is it going to match total sales for RDR2??? Of course not.. it’s not about competitions against a AAA game being supported on 2 console platforms. but estimates are in 10-20mil sales at least. It blow out Xbox one sales of rdr2 for sure but that probably won’t be a fair assessment.

Oh btw... 1.2 mil is just the physical sales... doesn’t include the digital apparently. It is also selling well in Europe too apparently. Blowing past Zelda BOTW sales. Pretty sure it’ll do well in the US..

 

[Madmick]

Lol you need to read better..

Ultimate sold 1.2 mil IN JAPAN in the first week. RDR2 sold 130k in Japan for the first week for PS4...

Is it going to match total sales for RDR2??? Of course not.. it’s not about competitions against a AAA game being supported on 2 console platforms. but estimates are in 10-20mil sales at least. It blow out Xbox one sales of rdr2 for sure but that probably won’t be a fair assessment.

I compared the Japanese reported sales figure because it was what you provided. It doesn't matter to me because the total units sold for the year, globally, is the determining figure.

Switch is #3, not #2 for the year in terms of game sales (not that you ever predicted that would be its placement).


*Edit*
BTW, inline with the thread's topic, here is the bestselling PS4 game today not named RDR2:

 

[90 50]

Lol what an amusing post considering few if any Nintendo fan claimed that the Switch was seeking first place. Their goal has always been to be the other console and they are not in direct competition with PS4. They are arguably in competition with Xbox as their total console sales may eclipse Xbox one. Gamers such as myself who might have considered buying an Xbox one for a 2nd console bought the Switch instead.

As for software sales. Smash ultimate is about to eclipse Kirby this year. They’ve already sold a mil in Japan alone in the first week.

The difference with the Switch and other Nintendo consoles is it is finally being supported by a solid list of 3rd party companies. We are only in year 2 and the Switch already has a good list of games. Those Doom games I never got a chance to play. Guess what I am gonna play them on my Switch. They’ll happily pick up port sales.

Bragging about something we all knew was going to happen doesn’t change the fact you will be wrong about TLOU2 release.

I can’t imagine playing doom on a switch with those controllers.

F the fing f that.

Cool if you want too but to me a switch is for stuff like Mario odyssey and smash bros for kids etc.

Imo you won’t get the real Doom experience on a switch