Is Jones the only A level athlete in MMA?

[MRT]

no.

 

[Fraz]

If it wasn't for mma all these "athletes" would be plumbers, janitors, jizz moppers etc

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

Jone Jones cant jump, hes not athletic hes smart, hard working, on drugs, long and skillful

Randleman is athletic, Manheof is athletic, Jon Jones cant jump

Jumping is just one quantifiable way to measure athletism, otherwise, high jumpers would be ruling the roost in sport. For the grappling arts, core strength is more valued than ability to run fast or jump high. In football, quickness and speed don't mean the same things, the athletiscm for a lineman is different to that of a wide receiver. And as much as I loathe Jones, he may not be NFL athletic, but he is optimally athletic for MMA.

 

[John Wick]

Usain Bolt, Phelps, and Lebron James are A-Level

I would put sober dedicated to training Jon Jones at B level.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

If it wasn't for mma all these "athletes" would be plumbers, janitors, jizz moppers etc

Many would be rasslin' but Conor would be doing what he's doing now: boxing the ears off elite boxers like Malinaggi.

 

[MarcoW]

there is no such thing as an A-level athlete.
Athletes are sport specific. You need specific attributes to be the best at certain sports.

This guy doesn't look very athletic in comparison to Lebron James, but he can jump far higher than him.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Jumping is just one quantifiable way to measure athletism, otherwise, high jumpers would be ruling the roost in sport. For the grappling arts, core strength is more valued than ability to run fast or jump high. In football, quickness and speed don't mean the same things, the athletiscm for a lineman is different to, that of a wide receiver. And as much as I loathe Jones, he may not be NFL athletic, but he is optimally athletic for MMA.

Athletic is usually used to describe the ability to jump high run fast etc explosive movements.

By your use of the word Hong Man Choi is athletic because he can take a punch well and has heavy hands in kickboxing. Both important and potent attributes in the sport of kickboxing.

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Any fighter who makes it into the UFC is an elite level athlete. Many were stars in multiple sports. The whole premise of this thread is silly.

 

[Gamer2k4]

So if DJ fought Holloway at 45, didn't cut any weight, while Holloway cut weight, Holloway is better P4P? Because that is DJ's relative walk around and Holloway's cut weight. People talk of weight but don't take into account walk around weight, weight with a certain percentage of body fat, height reach and all these other measurable a that fighters manipulate. For example, Cormier has a ton of fat, used to wrestle at 184, then ballooned up.....Same with Fedor, he is so valued in P4P discussion because he was a middleweight by modern standards but just didn't cut weight and cared not for nutrition like modern fighters do.

I've been hearing people talk about "pound for pound" for a long time, with many different ideas of what it actually refers to, and you're the first I've met who thinks it's based on a fantasy of what the fighter is "supposed" to or "could" weigh.

Fedor isn't valued in P4P discussion because he was a "middleweight;" he's valued because 235 is light for the heavyweight or openweight divisions in which he fought. As an extreme example, he beat Hong-man Choi, who weighed 330 pounds - that is, nearly 100 pounds more than Fedor did. And besides, once you get to heavyweight, you could make the "weight cut" argument for nearly any of the fighters there, since almost all of them fight at their natural weight.

You go on to talk about height and reach in the section I didn't quote, but my response is simple: P4P is pound for pound, and there's no reason to include other dimensions and attributes when talking about a categorization that's solely about weight. Is that too simplistic? Perhaps, but no one can deny it's also the most objective way of all the subjective ways to group fighters. If we had reach classes or height classes instead, you'd probably find that the heaviest people in those divisions would win most often. Because of that, we group fighters by weight, and rank accordingly.

This is going long, but one final point. You cite Gus as an example of someone who Jones struggled against, but the opposite is also true, in its own way - Gustafsson's boxing was nothing special against shorter fighters, and was much sharper against Jones. Why? Because, for whatever reason, he was now in his comfort zone. Dealing with reach and height has less to do with either attribute as such, and more about how familiar an opponent is with them. More people struggle against southpaws than against orthodox fighters (including southpaws themselves), but that doesn't mean southpaws are better fighters, does it?

 

[djacobox372]

The fact that both of his brothers are starting NFL players tells us just what a genetic anomaly Jones is.

 

[skysolo]

Athleticism doesnt matter that much in the cage other than endurance....

Cormier, Lesnar, Romero, were olympians...

Jones I could see him going down that road too though

Lesnar did not compete in the Olympics.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

Athletic is usually used to describe the ability to jump high run fast etc explosive movements.

By your use of the word Hong Man Choi is athletic because he can take a punch well and has heavy hands in kickboxing. Both important and potent attributes in the sport of kickboxing.

Exactly, athletic is generally used to refer to jumping, running, fast twitch type stuff but I'm just saying there are all types of athletiscm. Athletiscm is just ones ability to get their body to move in a way they desire. Jumping athletiscm is not applicable swimming athletiscm, just like core strength athletiscm is not applicable to running athletiscm.

I think in America especially, we think running/jumping athletiscm because that is what is used in our most popular sports (football and basketball..baseball to an extent to). There must be something said tho for the marathoner athlete, he who can't sprint fast but can go longer: the difference between a Yoel Romero and a Nick Diaz.

Fighting is so fucking awesome because we see two totally opposing athletes get to go head to head and to see what type of "athletiscm" wins out......which thus brings me to my final point in that the most sensible way to judge athletiscm is by who can kick the other one's ass. Running, jumping in all this other stuff really doesn't help if the shit hit the fan, as sports were originally invented to burn off that competetive spirit amongst men, so they could settle disputes and whatnot without killing each other; much like how wolf and bear cubs will playfully grapple to determine where they sit in the pecking order, so they can not only Sharon their fighting skills for later but also come to a hierarchical understanding without killing off it's own kind.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

No, theres olympians that compete in MMA

Olympians . Lol.

 

[skysolo]

Or is he sub A level, or even B level. We all know he dominates and is levels above everyone else. His brother arthur was a good defensive tackle in his prime. And his other bro chandler is a beast A level freak athlete pass rusher.

Jones obviously was too skinny for football and is the least athletic brother yet he dominates MMA and is a specimen. If sub a level jones who might even be B level or even C level is tearing through the sport it shows there are no a level athletes in MMA.

Mma basically has poverty D level athletes with jones being the exception.

EDIT:jones might be C level

Before you can tell us that Jonesy is an "A level athlete, you first must define "A level athlete". You failed to do that so your thread gets an F.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Exactly, athletic is generally used to refer to jumping, running, fast twitch type stuff but I'm just saying there are all types of athletiscm. Athletiscm is just ones ability to get their body to move in a way they desire. Jumping athletiscm is not applicable swimming athletiscm, just like core strength athletiscm is not applicable to running athletiscm.

I think in America especially, we think running/jumping athletiscm because that is what is used in our most popular sports (football and basketball..baseball to an extent to). There must be something said tho for the marathoner athlete, he who can't sprint fast but can go longer: the difference between a Yoel Romero and a Nick Diaz.

Fighting is so fucking awesome because we see two totally opposing athletes get to go head to head and to see what type of "athletiscm" wins out......which thus brings me to my final point in that the most sensible way to judge athletiscm is by who can kick the other one's ass. Running, jumping in all this other stuff really doesn't help if the shit hit the fan, as sports were originally invented to burn off that competetive spirit amongst men, so they could settle disputes and whatnot without killing each other; much like how wolf and bear cubs will playfully grapple to determine where they sit in the pecking order, so they can not only Sharon their fighting skills for later but also come to a hierarchical understanding without killing off it's own kind.

I cant fault your athleticism argument its perfectly logical even if its not the way we normally speak and not the usual idea we share in conversation.

Yea fighting, running throwing, swimming, types sports seem to be the most "pure" because they are activities that predate our species even throwing. Golf and soccer is less animal less natural, less at the root of who and what we are.We dont have instincts to kick a ball around we do have instincts to beat each other up or run from danger.


But since its about competitiveness and winning, dominating other men, you make a great point, who really wins a race if one guy is good at sprinting and one at long distance, they both win their own event, but a fight is many natural attributes tested against another mans to see who is best, thats a really good decider of who is the better man physically. Also its a more pure expression of the instinct to dominate and win over another man, running is for when you are scared or chasing something its not what you do when you want to dominate another man.



2 Komodo dragons wrestling

2 Goats headbutting

Now thats as pure as "sport" can get, it predates sport and is just the natural instinct of male on male domination to get the female.

 

[P4PSHERGOAT]

He's not even a good athlete. He's just blessed with height, reach, fight IQ and legs that allow him to make 205.

I take nothing away from his fighting ability but as an athlete, he probably couldn't make it in any other sport.

I love jones but this is true. He's not really that athletic

 

[MescalineDreams]

A level?!?! LMAO Dude isn't even C level

pretty sure this isn't relevant retard

 

[kflo]

roy jones was an average athlete on a usbl (minor league basketball) court.

yet he was a phenomenal athlete. it just shows in a different way. "athlete" is not some defined term. charlie ward wasn't an athlete but he was an athlete.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

I agree its the most pure form of sport imo its the oldest sport too predating our species

Yep. It's the one sport every living entity plays, even the cells in our body are fighting on a daily basis. No bears, bird or fish play basketball or long jump, but they all fight when they need to, whether it be for food, resources, breeding rights, territory or just enjoying a good old knock.

As a horse breeder and trainer, you see this athletic jousting all the time with horses, their version of "sports". When you introduce new horses to a group, especially with males, they will posture up, run back in forth, lift their legs high, pull off all these fancy maneuvers to say "See, this what I got" and they do this so they don't have to fight, but sometimes when you get very evenly matched horses, they will have to fight to establish pecking order: who gets breeding rights, who gets to stand in the cool spot in the shade and who gets the choice grass while grazing. Athletiscm in all animals is the same, it's just we humans developed a myriad of games to measure said athletiscm without coming to killing.

 

[kflo]

Exactly, athletic is generally used to refer to jumping, running, fast twitch type stuff but I'm just saying there are all types of athletiscm. Athletiscm is just ones ability to get their body to move in a way they desire. Jumping athletiscm is not applicable swimming athletiscm, just like core strength athletiscm is not applicable to running athletiscm.

I think in America especially, we think running/jumping athletiscm because that is what is used in our most popular sports (football and basketball..baseball to an extent to). There must be something said tho for the marathoner athlete, he who can't sprint fast but can go longer: the difference between a Yoel Romero and a Nick Diaz.

Fighting is so fucking awesome because we see two totally opposing athletes get to go head to head and to see what type of "athletiscm" wins out......which thus brings me to my final point in that the most sensible way to judge athletiscm is by who can kick the other one's ass. Running, jumping in all this other stuff really doesn't help if the shit hit the fan, as sports were originally invented to burn off that competetive spirit amongst men, so they could settle disputes and whatnot without killing each other; much like how wolf and bear cubs will playfully grapple to determine where they sit in the pecking order, so they can not only Sharon their fighting skills for later but also come to a hierarchical understanding without killing off it's own kind.

idk, when i was a kid being a good athlete meant you excelled in sports. those were athletes.