James Fields Charged with First Degree Murder

Actually he's pointing out that by charging him with first degree murder they are setting up a legal defence whereby he may end up walking. A lesser charge would mean an easier conviction. He's explaining this from a position of experience.

Unless they have nailed him with evidence of intent, text messages and such, this could fall flat in its face.

The amount of vehicular assaults + 2nd degree murder/manslaughter would already put the guy away for a very long time. Probably for life.

All you would have had to prove is that he had the impulse, now you have to prove that he had a plan.
 
I think nhbbear has been off the mark lately with some of his anti-left posts, but he's not even fucking close to a shitposter. And if every cop was as thoughtful as him, we'd have a noticeably better country overnight.
Not only agree. But need to highlight how much I agree by quoting for truth.
 
Actually he's pointing out that by charging him with first degree murder they are setting up a legal defence whereby he may end up walking. A lesser charge would mean an easier conviction. He's explaining this from a position of experience.
Its the "Too bad he did not run them over instead" and editorializing his opinions onto the mechanics and the motive of the crime that I think is troubling from someone in law enforcement.
 
I don't think it's fair to just relieve them of that responsibility. Regardless of what some people will say regardless of what they do, they still need to do everything in their power to control their message.

Otherwise, they just look like dipshits. Nothing is worse than a movement that does not even know what their movement is, and then blames the media for smearing them.


I agree that there's a fundamental problem with open-ended movements like BLM and Occupy as far as self-definition is concerned. If you say that anybody can join the movement, then you're going to be made to look bad when people start doing stupid shit while using your name even if they're doing it specifically to make the movement look bad.

That being said, it's asinine to claim that these groups can push back against consistent media misrepresentation.
 
Its the "Too bad he did not run them over instead" and editorializing his opinions onto the mechanics and the motive of the crime that I think is troubling from someone in law enforcement.

But it wouldn't be troubling if you were doing it?
 
Actually he's pointing out that by charging him with first degree murder they are setting up a legal defence whereby he may end up walking. A lesser charge would mean an easier conviction. He's explaining this from a position of experience.


I'm not going to debate whether he's a good poster or not and certainly not whether or not he's a good cop because I don't know the man; however, what he claimed in this thread to make his argument against the charges was demonstrably false. He was repeating an alt right conspiracy narrative that was circulated about how ANTIFA supposedly attacked Fields first.

The video of Fields speeding towards the crowd matches dozens of eyewitness accounts that he plowed into the protesters intentionally.

Additionally, the degree of the murder charge wouldn't change the efficacy of that defense. The difference between first degree murder and second (or third depending on jurisdiction) is wilful premeditation with malice afterthought. The mental element of the crime, subjective intent to cause death, is the same irrespective of degree. If Fields hit Heyer because he was in a panic about having his car attacked, then that would serve an effective defense to any murder charge and likely to manslaughter charges as well.

That post was complete and utter horseshit.
 
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I agree that there's a fundamental problem with open-ended movements like BLM and Occupy as far as self-definition is concerned. If you say that anybody can join the movement, then you're going to be made to look bad when people start doing stupid shit while using your name even if they're doing it specifically to make the movement look bad.

That being said, it's asinine to claim that these groups can push back against consistent media misrepresentation.

If a movement has clearly defined objectives, a clearly defined purpose, and clearly defined morals (what we do, what we don't do), then people have a much more difficult time using their name to commit acts outside of those boundaries.

They can certainly get better media coverage by doing that. I don't even think that can be in question. A lot of media already gives them the benefit of the doubt.
 
Unless they have nailed him with evidence of intent, text messages and such, this could fall flat in its face.

The amount of vehicular assaults + 2nd degree murder/manslaughter would already put the guy away for a very long time. Probably for life.

All you would have had to prove is that he had the impulse, now you have to prove that he had a plan.

There's actually plenty of evidence that these guys were talking about murdering counter protesters online in advance of the protests.

Even if they don't have solid evidence to prove pre-meditation, it doesn't meant that jury won't convict on a lesser charge like murder two or manslaughter. Juries are often instructed to consider lesser offenses when they are charged by the judge before deliberation.
 
If a movement has clearly defined objectives, a clearly defined purpose, and clearly defined morals (what we do, what we don't do), then people have a much more difficult time using their name to commit acts outside of those boundaries.

They can certainly get better media coverage by doing that. I don't even think that can be in question. A lot of media already gives them the benefit of the doubt.

https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/

BLM has that. It doesn't stop people who don't take the movement seriously on its face from smearing them.

Now, I don't dispute that there were plenty of idiotic protests carried out by local BLM groups, but most serious criticisms made against them, especially related to promoting violence, weren't based in reality. The two police shooters last year both specifically denounced BLM, and the Dallas shooter had actually been thrown out of an activist group because he scared the other members.

https://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/

And it wasn't just online right wing types and Fox news who smeared BLM. Even local news broadcasts got busted running fake news stories about them.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-edits-protest-chant-to-sound-like-kill-a-cop/

It doesn't matter how well organized a group that doesn't have institutional support is if they're going to be subjected to this kind of negative media.
 
https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/

BLM has that. It doesn't stop people who don't take the movement seriously on its face from smearing them.

Now, I don't dispute that there were plenty of idiotic protests carried out by local BLM groups, but most serious criticisms made against them, especially related to promoting violence, weren't based in reality. The two police shooters last year both specifically denounced BLM, and the Dallas shooter had actually been thrown out of an activist group because he scared the other members.

https://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/

And it wasn't just online right wing types and Fox news who smeared BLM. Even local news broadcasts got busted running fake news stories about them.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-edits-protest-chant-to-sound-like-kill-a-cop/

It doesn't matter how well organized a group that doesn't have institutional support is if they're going to be subjected to this kind of negative media.

I agree that it's always going to be an issue. You just have to get out right from the start and make your stances as well known as possible. If the clarification comes late, a lot of people have already formulated their opinions and it's too late. It's a shame, but it's the reality of our media and populace.
 
Amazing screed of a retarded shitpost, and frightening considering this guy is actually a cop.

Ok, dipshit. You have proof he meant to ram the crowd with his vehicle? Did you ever even see the video where the antifa punks start hitting his vehicle? I was ready to lynch this racist asshole like everyone else until I saw that video, which I have posted here before.
 
As a former prosecutor, this is complete horseshit reasoning.

Deadly force is a valid legal defense when the defendant (who bears the burden) is in immediate fear for his life (or serious bodily injury, and example being permanent maiming or a loss of limb) and has no other recourse.

To say that because a few people struck his car, that he could argue that argue that death was imminent, and he had no other course but to kill, is fucking absurd. Not to mention that the person he killed wasn't even a one of the people who struck his car, I'm not sure how he could even make a self defense claim there. The point of self defense is to stop your attacker, not to flee by any means possible and kill any bystanders that happen to be in your way.

Not to mention that the upgrade to 1st degree means that the prosecution found evidence of premeditation. Likely this shitbird posted something on social media about how he wanted to hurt/kill someone. So it's gonna be a stretch to claim that he was just innocently strolling down the road (a self defense claim is null if the person asserting it is found to be the aggressor). Not to mention that maps of the area show that this dickhead had no reason to be where he was, and it is extremely unlikely he was just innocently lost.

Oh, i don’t think it is self defense, i think it was fear of being harmed. That is where his defense will come from, that he was in immediate fear of being attacked. And based on the events prior to this, again, an easy argument to make. If there is some premeditation, it would have to be very specific, and if they have that, I will recant everything I said. Keep in mind, I am not defending this guy’s character, or his absurd opinions, but the video that I saw showed a vehicle driving normally until it was attacked. First degree murder is a huge stretch unless they have that smoking gun, ie “I am going to run these bastards over” or something akin to that.
 
LOL dude. If you think that he has any sort of defence, I seriously hope that you're not an aspiring lawyer. Sounds like your entire opinion on what happened is based on edited footage and alt right spin about the incident after the fact.

If you look at the actual footage of what was going on before he first accelerated into the crowd, you'll see that he wasn't in danger from anybody and that there was nobody in close proximity to his car for the first several hundred feet of his pull until he hit the crowd.





People didn't start hitting his car until it was clear that he was intentionally going to plow into the protesters. Additionally, Fields was a open nazi who had posted online about his intention to run counterprotesters down with the rest of the tiki torch assholes ahead of "unite the right." That's why he's getting charged with premeditated murder.

Maybe a cop could get acquitted using a bullshit excuse like that in court, but Fields likely isn't going to.

...and double LOL @ the fact that you're pissed at the counterprotesters, only a small percentage of whom were actually ANTIFA, because they didn't like that a bunch of neo-fascist agitators from around the country decided to come intimidate the residents of a town after a city council decision to take down a statue.



There is another video that shows his car being attacked before he accelerated.

And where they hell are you getting the information that he planned to run people over? I have never read or heard of any evidence of that.
 
That Alt-Reich hero of the Deplorabots had his charges upgraded to first degree murder today. I'm very happy to see it, and hope he goes to prison for the rest of his life.


(CNN)An Ohio driver accused of plowing into a crowd protesting a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, this summer, killing one woman, now faces a first-degree murder charge.

James Alex Fields Jr., of Maumee, Ohio, was initially charged with second-degree murder and other offenses, including malicious wounding and failure to stop in an accident that resulted in death. Police say he fatally struck Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old Charlottesville paralegal, and injured 36 others on August 12.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/us/charlottesville-james-alex-fields-court-appearance/index.html

He should go to prison. But how is it first degree murder?
His lawyer must suck.
 
Oh, i don’t think it is self defense, i think it was fear of being harmed. That is where his defense will come from, that he was in immediate fear of being attacked. And based on the events prior to this, again, an easy argument to make. If there is some premeditation, it would have to be very specific, and if they have that, I will recant everything I said. Keep in mind, I am not defending this guy’s character, or his absurd opinions, but the video that I saw showed a vehicle driving normally until it was attacked. First degree murder is a huge stretch unless they have that smoking gun, ie “I am going to run these bastards over” or something akin to that.

I didn't think you were defending the guy, sorry if it came off that way.

But I don't think upgrading the charge to 1st degree changes anything. You still have the lesser included charges that the jury could find him on. So if they think he intended to kill someone and premeditated, 1st degree. If they think he intended to kill but did not plan beforehand, 2nd degree. If they think he had no intention to kill someone but acted recklessly (and flooring your car directly into a crowd certainly qualifies for that), then manslaughter.

And fear of being attacked won't cut it. The jury needs to find that a reasonable person would feel that they were in imminent (immediate) danger of being killed. It's not just this asshole swearing up and down that he felt that way. The standard put to a jury would be do you, as a reasonable person, feel that you were about to die in a situation like that? A few people swinging at a car that was clearly moving towards them first (remember, self defense is also void if he's found to be the aggressor) would not to me make me feel that I'm about to die right then and there. Also, the girl killed wasn't one of those people. Even if he could sway the jury on the above, I don't see how self-defense would apply to killing an innocent bystander.

The only defense would be 1) you have to convince them of no premeditation, and given that the prosecutor recently upgraded it, I'd imagine that they found past comments from this douche, on social media or otherwise, that he wanted to hurt someone; 2) then you'd have to convince the jury that you didn't intend to kill anyone, that this was some sort of panicked accident. That's going to be an uphill battle when maps clearly show that this guy went out of his way to arrive at that location with his car. The area was closed off, and he passed multiple police lines/partial barricades, and the crowd was clearly visible right in front of him. 3) Lastly, he's have to convince the jury that flooring his car directly into a mass of people wasn't somehow reckless, and that a few people hitting his car which he's safely inside would have prompted a similar reaction from an average person.

Now I don't see how a jury can buy all that. Although, juries have reached monumentally stupid decisions before.

My best guess, is that they found some posts on social media where this guy laid out his plans to hurt someone. So they upped it to 1st degree and will let the kid either plead down to 2nd degree, or roll the dice at trial.

Regardless, this kid isn't advantaged by the increased charge. If anything it's just one more thing (the premeditation) that his defense will have to argue against.
 
There is video of his car being attacked before he accelerated. I have posted it before, but i am not looking for it at 4 am

If you get the chance, please do. Because the video I've seen still show's his car creeping at about 10-20 mph towards the crowd before anyone reacts. And no one reacted in a way that led me to think "dear god, this kids about to die in that car!"
 
There is another video that shows his car being attacked before he accelerated.

And where they hell are you getting the information that he planned to run people over? I have never read or heard of any evidence of that.
The video in question -unless it's a brand new one- shows people taking swings at his car when he's already past the last turning point and is halfway down the block and still driving at the crowd which is visible down the road from him.

Yeah, he goes even faster after that point, but he's already driving towards the crowd, so what exactly do you think it proves?

Like, is the hypothesis that he detoured around the highway and down a couple city blocks towards the crowd without malice before those meanies scared him into driving the last 100 feet, too?
 
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