Majority of Republicans now think college is bad

[VivaRevolution]

I had a great college experience and learned a lot there, but neomarxists have ruined a lot of universities and do more harm than good

Everyone here is quick to dogpile (durr dumb redneck republicans) but Jordan Peterson who has been a professor at Harvard and university of Toronto said the same thing, that universities do more harm than good at this point

I wouldn't go far enough to say a blanket statement like "college is bad" but there are real concerns about the university system at this point

And what about places like the university of chicago, or the college of William and Mary.

This infiltration of college campuses is not new. Like so many issues, it just got put on steroids.

 

[panamaican]

I do put value on life experiences . . . I just don't think a person needs college to experience or improve on their respective life experiences if they have other opportunities.

That's not what I said. What I said is that going to college is the experience. It's an experience just like any other life experience, you can't substitute something else for it. Either you've seen the Great Pyramid of Giza in person or you haven't. Either you've been to college or you haven't. Do you have to do either? No. But they are both experiences that will enrich your life in some way.

Can all be completed without college.

Sure, there are lots of ways to do it. I think college is a critical step, you don't. That's why I stated that is a subjective opinion.

Debts related to 4+ years of college is a completely different burden IMO . . . especially if it's for one of the more worthless degrees. It's one thing to go into debt over an engineering degree or to become a nurse or something. But those other degrees where jobs aren't easy to come by are a whole different burden.

You're repeating yourself without actually addressing what I said. I said that if the debt isn't burdensome then it's worth it. If the debt is burdensome then go to a trade school and take college classes as your income allows.

But the trade school experience is not a substitute for the college experience. Taking a class here and there is also not a substitute for the college experience. They are different experiences.

If people just want job training, so be it. But even people who get the degrees you're supporting, they still engage the college experience beyond going to class and then back to their dorm rooms to study. They engage the entire gamut of life experiences that college presents.

You're conflating 2 things that I am treating as different. College as an experience worth having vs. the cost of attending college itself.

 

[spamking]

That's not what I said. What I said is that going to college is the experience. It's an experience just like any other life experience, you can't substitute something else for it. Either you've seen the Great Pyramid of Giza in person or you haven't. Either you've been to college or you haven't. Do you have to do either? No. But they are both experiences that will enrich your life in some way.

You said it was a critical experience for young people's development. To me, that implies it should be pursued regardless of the cost in your eyes because you see it as critical. Otherwise it isn't critical to anything. It's just one of the many options out there for folks to possibly experience.

Sure, there are lots of ways to do it. I think college is a critical step, you don't. That's why I stated that is a subjective opinion.

So then what's the problem?

You're repeating yourself without actually addressing what I said. I said that if the debt isn't burdensome then it's worth it. If the debt is burdensome then go to a trade school and take college classes as your income allows.

Oh I addressed your debt burden comment . . . might not have been in the best manner, but it wasn't ignored. I simply disagree that a person should go experience college because they can afford it and expect to suddenly become productive or enriched.

But the trade school experience is not a substitute for the college experience.

I agree that attending the local vo-tech isn't the same as going to a large state university . . . I never said it was.

Taking a class here and there is also not a substitute for the college experience. They are different experiences.

They are . . . and folks have different needs met by those varied experiences.

If people just want job training, so be it. But even people who get the degrees you're supporting, they still engage the college experience beyond going to class and then back to their dorm rooms to study. They engage the entire gamut of life experiences that college presents.

You're conflating 2 things that I am treating as different. College as an experience worth having vs. the cost of attending college itself.

I'm simply stating that IMO if you're going to attend college you should receive a degree that will result in some type of benefit for your life and/or the lives of your family/society, etc. We obviously all have different ideas as to what that college experience is/was or how it might be of benefit or not. I totally disagree that the college experience is worth the expense if you're not ending up with a truly usable degree.

Some folks go to college and never have to work . . . they get scholarships, grants, etc. They're experience is going to be totally different than that of someone who has to work full time while going to school the same amount of hours. Granted, they will both have an experience and some of it may be very valuable. I'm not denying that. You just put more value on it than I do.

 

[panamaican]

You said it was a critical experience for young people's development. To me, that implies it should be pursued regardless of the cost in your eyes because you see it as critical. Otherwise it isn't critical to anything. It's just one of the many options out there for folks to possibly experience.

That is not what I said in the slightest. I said that the education and experience were worth it if the debt wasn't burdensome. You asked for critical experiences from college. I explained what experiences were valuable and then said how critical is subjective.

Subjective means that different people will consider how critical something is differently from each other. You're trying to argue for a black/white assignation of if it's critical when I said "subjective". I assume you know what subjective means?

Oh I addressed your debt burden comment . . . might not have been in the best manner, but it wasn't ignored. I simply disagree that a person should go experience college because they can afford it and expect to suddenly become productive or enriched.

Since no one said otherwise, why are you repeating yourself? I said that if the debt isn't burdensome then college is a worthwhile experience, that has nothing to do with productivity or some undefined enrichment.

I agree that attending the local vo-tech isn't the same as going to a large state university . . . I never said it was.



They are . . . and folks have different needs met by those varied experiences.

See above, no one said otherwise. But I, personally, subjectively, think that the college experience is a critical one. You, personally, subjectively think otherwise.

I'm simply stating that IMO if you're going to attend college you should receive a degree that will result in some type of benefit for your life and/or the lives of your family/society, etc. We obviously all have different ideas as to what that college experience is/was or how it might be of benefit or not. I totally disagree that the college experience is worth the expense if you're not ending up with a truly usable degree.

Your statement is an embarrassment of contradictions. You say people have different ideas of what a benefit is and then say they must end up with a usable degree.

It seems that you don't have different ideas of what a benefit is and have limited your idea to "usable", presumably in the job market.

You have not considered that perhaps the benefit of the degree is the people you meet and what they add to your life. Perhaps the benefit is a new perspective on life that leads to personal, but not economic, enrichment.

Some folks go to college and never have to work . . . they get scholarships, grants, etc. They're experience is going to be totally different than that of someone who has to work full time while going to school the same amount of hours. Granted, they will both have an experience and some of it may be very valuable. I'm not denying that. You just put more value on it than I do.

Correct. Which is why I said it's subjective. I obviously think it's more valuable than you do, that's fine. Society is leaning my way. Sure, there's plenty of negative stories about people with debt they can't pay off and plenty of stories of people without degrees becoming successful. But society, in general, right now puts greater value in continued formal education after high school.

While you are fixated on the degree itself, society is looking at the ancillary benefits of attendance.

 

[ineverpost]

All college is not the same but Democrats want to shit out money to everyone and Republicans want to take it away from everyone. All you have to do is ask yourself "how is spending this money now going to make me money in the future?". If you can't answer that question, then college is a really bad idea for you.

 

[RetiredSlave]

The narrative can easily be twisted to anti intellect but its anti indoctrination. Post secondary should be oathbound to political neutrality.

 

[Metusalemi]

Peterson ranting about modern universities.

55:50 - 1:01:40

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I have to ask, what would I have to find on these links for you to confirm that these departmants consist of postmodernists?

And do you think qualitative and discursive research is positivist?

Maybe a "huge number" of faculty or research projects where they talk postmodern nonsense?

And for the most part, it isn't. However, positivist vs postmodern aren't the only two options. Qualitative/interpretative research sits in the middle and makes the astute position that certain human experiences can't be broken down into numbers.

 

[HOLA]

The narrative can easily be twisted to anti intellect but its anti indoctrination. Post secondary should be oathbound to political neutrality.

Maybe it's liberal indoctrination.

But perhaps there is another option? Becoming more intelligent and educated makes one, on average, more liberal.

Besides for colleges and universities, there are also complaints that journalists and scientists are all liberals. Maybe it's not a conspiracy. Maybe professions that care about getting facts and not alternative facts have a problem voting for the GOP.

 

[spamking]

That is not what I said in the slightest. I said that the education and experience were worth it if the debt wasn't burdensome. You asked for critical experiences from college. I explained what experiences were valuable and then said how critical is subjective.

Subjective means that different people will consider how critical something is differently from each other. You're trying to argue for a black/white assignation of if it's critical when I said "subjective". I assume you know what subjective means?






Since no one said otherwise, why are you repeating yourself? I said that if the debt isn't burdensome then college is a worthwhile experience, that has nothing to do with productivity or some undefined enrichment.




See above, no one said otherwise. But I, personally, subjectively, think that the college experience is a critical one. You, personally, subjectively think otherwise.



Your statement is an embarrassment of contradictions. You say people have different ideas of what a benefit is and then say they must end up with a usable degree.

It seems that you don't have different ideas of what a benefit is and have limited your idea to "usable", presumably in the job market.

You have not considered that perhaps the benefit of the degree is the people you meet and what they add to your life. Perhaps the benefit is a new perspective on life that leads to personal, but not economic, enrichment.



Correct. Which is why I said it's subjective. I obviously think it's more valuable than you do, that's fine. Society is leaning my way. Sure, there's plenty of negative stories about people with debt they can't pay off and plenty of stories of people without degrees becoming successful. But society, in general, right now puts greater value in continued formal education after high school.

While you are fixated on the degree itself, society is looking at the ancillary benefits of attendance.

Holy crap

 

[WrestlingJudo]

Maybe it's liberal indoctrination.

But perhaps there is another option? Becoming more intelligent and educated makes one, on average, more liberal.

Besides for colleges and universities, there are also complaints that journalists and scientists are all liberals. Maybe it's not a conspiracy. Maybe professions that care about getting facts and not alternative facts have a problem voting for the GOP.

The great irony. All the posters saying the STEM degrees are the only worthwhile ones (because arts degrees are only obtained by dumb libruls) yet a great proportion of recipients of them are liberals. MAYBE just MAYBE theres a correlation between education and liberal political ideology because the type of people who tend to get that higher level of education also seem less likely to vote for a party that blatantly goes against their interests.

 

[WrestlingJudo]

The great irony. All the posters saying the STEM degrees are the only worthwhile ones (because arts degrees are only obtained by dumb libruls) yet a great proportion of recipients of them are liberals. MAYBE just MAYBE theres a correlation between education and liberal political ideology because the type of people who tend to get that higher level of education also seem less likely to vote for a party that blatantly goes against their interests.

Just kidding. Its actually the neo-marxist conspiracy to indoctrinate the next generation of intellgentsia.

 

[spamking]

Let me try this one last time @panamaican

Yes, we completely disagree regarding our subjective opinions on "the college experience". I understand what the word subjective means. Good grief.

To me, a critical experience is something that a person can't make it in life without . . . that's my SUBJECTIVE opinion. In my opinion there is nothing so critical that a person must feel the need to go into debt for . . . now if debt isn't a problem or if money is no object fine . . . my problem with the whole college gimmick is that we are telling kids that they must attend college when some of them have no business doing so. Many of those who should have taken a different route often become successful and "beat the odds" so to speak. But hopefully we can both recognize that college isn't for everyone and is often very detrimental to those who can't afford to be there but end up trying to go and waste time and money doing so.

Yes, I have a huge problem with people who have no issues going into debt all for "the college experience". Go work at a local college town bar if you want to hang out with college students and get that life experience. If you're going to college for the right reasons, have a great "college life experience" and end up with a degree that will add value to society fine. I say this as the parent of a soon-to-be college sophomore attending a university that's costing about $16k a year.

While you are fixated on the degree itself, society is looking at the ancillary benefits of attendance.

Maybe everyone else should shift their main focus to the degree and see how those benefits improve . . .One will often take care of the other if done correctly . . . with the exception of this participation trophy line of thinking . . .

 

[ocfightfan]

It would be great if liberals weren't ruining it.

 

[RubberGuard5]

Maybe a "huge number" of faculty or research projects where they talk postmodern nonsense?

And for the most part, it isn't. However, positivist vs postmodern aren't the only two options. Qualitative/interpretative research sits in the middle and makes the astute position that certain human experiences can't be broken down into numbers.

So I would have to read research done by people from these links? Have you done it? What would it have to say in the research for you to confirm that it's postmodern?

I'm actually prepared to do this challenge of yours that'll take hours or days to complete. But you need to tell me exactly what are the indicators of postmodern research according to you. I want to be time efficient.

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

The way I see it, Republics/Conservatives generally agree with 1 or more of the following points:

• Colleges are becoming oversaturated and it makes sense for many young people to attend vocational/technical schools instead of Universities.
• There's a radical liberal slant in most nationally accredited Universities. Many young adults are being brainwashed into one particular way of thinking which goes against the whole point of a University (students are supposed to learn how to think critically and independently).
• The humanities have been hijacked by post-modernist bullshit.

 

[HOLA]

 

[RockstarChris]

Liberals love college and especially want free college because in reality Liberals are lazy and want to delay having to be a productive member of society for as long as possible.

Liberal life pattern:

School until 18
Live with parents and go to college until 24
Leave college and protest they cant get a job until they are 26
Move back in with their parents until 30.
Get a good paying job and become republican.

 

[El anciano]

Well considering most Republicans dont make it past 9th grade, I can see why they think that

 

[nefti]

Most liberal arts degrees should not even be degrees. Graduating with a bullcrap liberal arts degree that qualifies you for jobs such as a starbucks barista or server is not an "education".