Middle-class income rose above $61,000 for the first time last year, U.S. Census Bureau says

[HIMBOB]

The reality is we need a social safety net.

However,

I would make it smaller myself. If you’re able bodied, you shouldn’t receive benefits. We can thank democrats for rewarding people who are too lazy to be productive citizens.

And that safety net should be for people, not for profitable enterprise.

There is a belief that most minimum wage jobs would disappear with a minimum wage of a living wage, but it clearly is not true. People get their cars washed, get greeted at stores and buy fast food in every country.

 

[HIMBOB]

It's too bad we haven't had a Democrat as president since 1968. We should give them a shot at fixing it, I think.

I wonder, crazy thought, but I wonder if illegal immigrants lower the wages for low-skilled workers?

Wouldn't with strong employment laws/unions.

For a long time I believed illegals only worked for very small Businesses, was stunned to find that false.

 

[VivaRevolution]

No it wouldn't.



It's OK not to know the meaning of words, even common ones like "median," but it's not OK to *use* words you don't know the meaning of and never even think to look them up. Do better.

 

[Prutfis]

So I'll take this response as you have no actual solution or suggested plan to improve the situation, and only desire to complain about it? Understood. Moving on.



I would say do I think a teacher (your own original mention) should make more money and not have to work two jobs or buy their own school supplies or etc? Absolutely. Do I think John Doe at the car wash or Jimmy Jim in aisle 7 should make as much as people significantly more qualified at higher level jobs? Absolutely not.

No one is forced to do anything correct? This we can agree on. So as a responsible adult, you make a decision to work a job. You go to an interview, the employer offers you a schedule and a salary correct? You have the option to accept this salary, or decline this salary correct? If you feel the pay is too low for what you are seeking, you should decline and accept a job with pay relative to your desires correct? If you are unqualified for a higher paying job you should obtain the qualifications to receive the higher paying job you desire correct? Where do you disagree with me in this paragraph.

My stance holds that mediocre jobs should not be considered career jobs, and in turn will not reward you with career level pay. Everyone in America knows that the cashier at Walmart makes crap pay. This is no surprise. This should be a job that you do as a stepping stone, extra cash while in college, first job at 17 years old, grind it out until you're promoted to manager, etc. The job before you eventually transition into a better career path as you develop as a person. Why do you feel someone should be able to work crap jobs for decades and make as much money as people who put in significantly more time, effort, and sacrifice into their career paths? If this isn't your stance then feel free to correct me, it just reads that this is what you are implying.



A job that doesn't exist? I am using the car wash example for the actual fact that my first job after high school was 35 hours a week at a car wash. My second job was as a security guard while in college making $8.50 an hour. Did it for a year. Then I did office assistance work for $10.50 an hour. These were my jobs in college while I focused on my future career development. Difference is I knew exactly what those jobs were, short term stops for some on-hand cash. Not career life fulfilling jobs.

I never said everyone should be making the same. What a weird notion.
I said that job doesn't exist here. Settle down. You are getting carried away.
A minimum wage job is not just a stop on the way to a better career for everyone. So what? Just fuck those people? Sorry you were born dumb or disabled?

You seem to have a very hard time with a very basic concept. Working a full time minimum wage job should provide a livable wage. That doesn't mean a 4 bedroom house and 3 cars. But it also doesn't mean working 2 or 3 jobs to make the most basic of ends meet. Or picking between healthcare or feeding your kids.

 

[Prutfis]

It's too bad we haven't had a Democrat as president since 1968. We should give them a shot at fixing it, I think.

I wonder, crazy thought, but I wonder if illegal immigrants lower the wages for low-skilled workers?

Decades of corporate paid for, government endorsed crusade against working unions might also play a part

 

[Satsui Ryu]

Considering how cost of living moves relative to income, increases in income is kind of moot. Cost of living will move accordingly causing a wash. Not really sure how something like that can be controlled though without draconian policies.

 

[Squarechoke]

It's real 3rd world stuff when people say that full time workers shouldn't be able to support themselves.

Personally I prefer the developed world model where anyone can support themselves with a job, and those that get better jobs just increase their living standards on top of that.

It's when you don't make it worth working that you get people slacking off and just enjoying benefits, and that effect is not remedied just by lowering benefits.

 

[bobgeese]

And that safety net should be for people, not for profitable enterprise.

There is a belief that most minimum wage jobs would disappear with a minimum wage of a living wage, but it clearly is not true. People get their cars washed, get greeted at stores and buy fast food in every country.

Reality check, burger flippers don’t deserve $15hr.

 

[Prutfis]

Those jobs do exist though, as again my first three jobs were $10 or less, the first one being working full time at a car wash. You asked for my perspective so I gave it to you. As you gave me your perspective prior to that post.

If you do not believe they should be making the "same", then what is your position? Let's move from car wash to aisle 7 supermarket guy. If his pay rises from $9 to $15 or $17 or whatnot, then what happens to the guy making $17 as a supervisor in a different field. Does his pay now go to $24 to justify the increase, or does he make the same money for significantly higher skill and value? What about the guy making $24 an hour? If all $$$ raise how do you avoid mass inflation all around, as that would make $15 or $17 the "new" unlivable? I am open to listening to your solution or explanation on what you think is the best revision of our current system.

On the second part, if a minimum wage job say packing out cereal in aisle 7 isn't a temporary stop for everyone, who's fault is that? Why would the expectation be to pay someone an immensely higher wage for doing a low skill job that they agreed to, that anyone can walk in and do the next day? There is no shortage of medium to high paying jobs in this country, so at what point do we hold individuals accountable for their own lack of resources? A 35 year old healthy male or female would have had a literal half of their life to improve on working only entry level jobs. These are legitimate questions I feel should always be addressed in these conversations. As a responsible adult, I would argue you should prioritize planning to improve your personal economic situation at all levels, continuously, until you're old. If not, you'll be stagnant as proven by all stagnant people. Is this an incorrect way of looking at it?

So do or don't you think a minimum wage worker should have a livable minimum wage?

 

[Prutfis]

It's real 3rd world stuff when people say that full time workers shouldn't be able to support themselves.

Personally I prefer the developed world model where anyone can support themselves with a job, and those that get better jobs just increase their living standards on top of that.

Well put

 

[HIMBOB]

Reality check, burger flippers don’t deserve $15hr.

Who gives a fuck what they deserve, just make their employer pay it.

I don't think the tax payer should chuck in Burger stores can make more profit.

Tax payers should chuck in for good things, burgers fail that test

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

...otherwise this is like jerking yourself off with your left hand.

For about 7% of us that's the better option.

 

[Gunny]

Why are they reporting median growth, instead of the growth of the average Americans wealth, or wages?

Is it because when you count median wealth, it allows for Jeff bezos becoming 50 billion richer, to be misrepresented and infer I somehow got a piece of that pie?

I always have to go back and revisit the concept whenever this topic comes up but I think what you’re saying may involve a classic confusion between average and median.

 

[DIDM]

But I thought the middle class was dead?

 

[Ice That Jaw]

That is a lot of money for a median. You have to consider that the vast majority of these people live in areas where houses are $150-500k.

Although, shit. I always forget the household part. How many single parent families are included?

 

[franklinstower]

This makes no sense. A high school drop out working 35 hours at the local car wash should be enough money to support his entire life without assistance? That is an idealistic and unreasonable way of thinking, at best.

I think of it as a moral imperative. Society produces jobs that are a part of the economy and need to be done. Someone has to do them. The person who does should have health insurance and a livable minimum wage. Otherwise we are writing into policy a requirement for having poverty and that is truly stupid.

 

[Revolver]

Middle class income is 61k? lol, that's what I consider poverty.

 

[cincymma79]

Middle class income is 61k? lol, that's what I consider poverty.

Depends where you live
San Francisco or manhattan
Poor
Most anywhere else
Middle

 

[bobgeese]

Who gives a fuck what they deserve, just make their employer pay it.

I don't think the tax payer should chuck in Burger stores can make more profit.

Tax payers should chuck in for good things, burgers fail that test

They deserve about what they get tbh.

Maybe you should blame democrats for coddling these people and giving them benefits.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Not impressive.....this shit pay would be garbage in the 1950s.

Times were def better without social programs, rampant welfare and families falling apart left and right. I agree, lets bring back Christian family values where everyone pulls their worth and nobody gets a free pass for something meaningless like skin color or sexual apparatus. Better off without the learned dependance and moral depravity.