Social Minimum Wage now at $20 an hour in California

[ShadowRun]

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Good. High tide raises all the boats.

 

[RoastBeast]

Good. High tide raises all the boats.

If only this applied to economics and not just water.

Prices will rise and the general cost of everything will rise and it'll land minimum wage workers right back where they were in the first place. These are jobs meant for high school workers. Not for people who need to support a family. The government can attempt to artificially raise their wages but the market will just eat them up like it always has.

 

[Dalarna3]

Understandable given how crazy expensive everything is there.

 

[Sinister]

Lol, that's been happening here in Vegas for 2 years. But nice to see it blamed on people who cant afford to pay rent

 

[Sinister]

If only this applied to economics and not just water.

Prices will rise and the general cost of everything will rise and it'll land minimum wage workers right back where they were in the first place. These are jobs meant for high school workers. Not for people who need to support a family. The government can attempt to artificially raise their wages but the market will just eat them up like it always has.

Fast food was never, ever "meant for HS workers." Most of the hours in a day they're open it's against the law to have kids work. That is and always has been a bullsh*t premise to argue that billion dollar corporations should have a cheap labor market.

 

[RoastBeast]

Fast food was never, ever "meant for HS workers." Most of the hours in a day they're open it's against the law to have kids work. That is and always has been a bullsh*t premise to argue that billion dollar corporations should have a cheap labor market.

I know you guys tend to have a 16 year olds mentality when it comes to economics but a job that requires no skill, has very low difficulty and is not physically taxing will never "pay the bills" in a free market society because anyone can do it.

If a high school kid can walk on the job and start doing your job as well as anyone else, you don't have a very good job and will not be paid nicely for it.

 

[Sinister]

I know you guys tend to have a 16 year olds mentality when it comes to economics but a job that requires no skill, has very low difficulty and is not physically taxing will never "pay the bills" in a free market society because anyone can do it.

If a high school kid can walk on the job and start doing your job as well as anyone else, you don't have a very good job and will not be paid nicely for it.

What the f*ck are you talking about? I've worked in offices with people far dumber with less skill sitting at a desk all day who couldn't handle a single lunch rush at a fast food place without a nervous breakdown. But you would define those nerds as "skilled workers" because you were told to.

A business that is open MOSTLY during school hours and after legal times of night kids can work is not meant for kids. From the inception of fast food restaurants the bulk of the work has always been done by adults. Suggesting it's meant for kids is just a lie.

 

[RoastBeast]

What the f*ck are you talking about? I've worked in offices with people far dumber with less skill sitting at a desk all day who couldn't handle a single lunch rush at a fast food place without a nervous breakdown. But you would define those nerds as "skilled workers" because you were told to.

A business that is open MOSTLY during school hours and after legal times of night kids can work is not meant for kids. From the inception of fast food restaurants the bulk of the work has always been done by adults. Suggesting it's meant for kids is just a lie.

I don't know what you're talking about either. Sounds like your office people shouldn't be making much money either if a high school kid could do a job that is more difficult than theirs.

Ok, fast food is meant for kids and young adults working their way through college. I suppose it can also be meant for people who don't want to do anything with their lives and are content with living paycheck to paycheck with a roommate in a small apartment.

What it's not meant for is to be able to support a mortgage and a spouse and kids. If that's the life that someone wants, then they should probably not work fast food. They should also not fold clothes at Kohls or push carts at Target if that's what they aspire to. I've held jobs like that in my past. They were a means to an end so I could get to where I wanted to be. If someone peaks at flipping burgers, then their lack of success is not due to the fast food joint being greedy. It's due to their own lack of drive.

 

[Sinister]

I don't know what you're talking about either. Sounds like your office people shouldn't be making much money either if a high school kid could do a job that is more difficult than theirs.

Ok, fast food is meant for kids and young adults working their way through college. I suppose it can also be meant for people who don't want to do anything with their lives and are content with living paycheck to paycheck with a roommate in a small apartment.

What it's not meant for is to be able to support a mortgage and a spouse and kids. If that's the life that someone wants, then they should probably not work fast food. They should also not fold clothes at Kohls or push carts at Target if that's what they aspire to. I've held jobs like that in my past. They were a means to an end so I could get to where I wanted to be. If someone peaks at flipping burgers, then their lack of success is not due to the fast food joint being greedy. It's due to their own lack of drive.

Fast food work was never INTENDED for any specific demographic, why do you keep perpetuating that lie when its demonstrably a lie? By your logic coal mining was also INTENDED for children because anyone can dig in the dirt, and boy those mine shafts sure are small!! But we ended that crap as a society when we realized that industry wasnt worth killing children or depriving them of educations. There is no such a thing as a fast food chain that was began with the PURPOSE of employing children. Most of them, at their inception, were run by owner/operators who were absolutely adults, just like every fricken restaurant ever.

It doesn't matter how disgusted you, personally, are by the idea that grown people work at McDonald's or any other service jobs. If they are going to offer full time positions then they MUST offer living wages, and they do, in most places that legally require them to do so. And they dont HAVE to price their products at astronomical prices to compensate for it, either. They'll gouge because corporations gouge, but it's only necessary if they consider posting record profits WHILE doing stock buy-backs "necessary." This entire premise is just classism.

 

[RoastBeast]

Fast food work was never INTENDED for any specific demographic, why do you keep perpetuating that lie when its demonstrably a lie? By your logic coal mining was also INTENDED for children because anyone can dig in the dirt, and boy those mine shafts sure are small!! But we ended that crap as a society when we realized that industry wasnt worth killing children or depriving them of educations. There is no such a thing as a fast food chain that was began with the PURPOSE of employing children. Most of them, at their inception, were run by owner/operators who were absolutely adults, just like every fricken restaurant ever.

It doesn't matter how disgusted you, personally, are by the idea that grown people work at McDonald's or any other service jobs. If they are going to offer full time positions then they MUST offer living wages, and they do, in most places that legally require them to do so. And they dont HAVE to price their products at astronomical prices to compensate for it, either. They'll gouge because corporations gouge, but it's only necessary if they consider posting record profits WHILE doing stock buy-backs "necessary." This entire premise is just classism.

Coal mining pays more than McDonalds because it's difficult and dangerous work. If less people want to do a job because it is difficult or dangerous, then the job will pay more money to attract people who think the job is worth the pay.

If the government artificially raised minimum wage to whatever a coal miner makes, then all the coal miners would leave the coal mine to go work at McDonalds.

Think past step 1.

 

[Sinister]

Coal mining pays more than McDonalds because it's difficult and dangerous work. If less people want to do a job because it is difficult or dangerous, then the job will pay more money to attract people who think the job is worth the pay.

If the government artificially raised minimum wage to whatever a coal miner makes, then all the coal miners would leave the coal mine to go work at McDonalds.

Think past step 1.

Lol, coal mining was largely done BY children. There's just no such thing as a labor market that was meant FOR kids, full stop. And right now both jobs are being automated just the same.

Yeah, you are arguing for how the labor market should work. If COL goes up, minimum wage should go up...and if that goes up, then other industries will have to reflect that. That's called paying market cost for labor, which is something companies hate doing, but all them CEO's ain't gonna cook no burgers themselves.

I'd wager they lack the skill

 

[RoastBeast]

Lol, coal mining was largely done BY children. There's just no such thing as a labor market that was meant FOR kids, full stop. And right now both jobs are being automated just the same.

Yeah, you are arguing for how the labor market should work. If COL goes up, minimum wage should go up...and if that goes up, then other industries will have to reflect that. That's called paying market cost for labor, which is something companies hate doing, but all them CEO's ain't gonna cook no burgers themselves.

I'd wager they lack the skill

You're referencing shit from the 1800s. I'm talking about the state of the market today.

Minimum wage hikes cause coal mining wages to go up. Not the other way around. Quick google search says coal miners make an average of $22.85 in CA. If McDonalds is forced to pay $20, that causes the coal miners to get a jump in wage as well, otherwise they'd just go work at McDonalds for a little less pay and a lot less work.

All of this just causes the prices of everything to go up, from food to utilities. In turn, rent goes up and general inflation increases. If you're a middle class person that works in an office ans has a savings account, your money is now worth less and your bills cost more.

Even if all fast food owners stopped being greedy today and paid their workers $30/hr, the market would catch on and the prices of everything would just go way up in unison to capture all that extra spending money. You can't just force everyone to stop being greedy. I wish you could but that's not the reality of how our world works.

 

[Gutter Chris]

I refuse to use those things. I don't work there and if a real human doesn't take my order than I leave. It's happened a handful of times now

Wish more people would do like I do.

 

[Sinister]

You're referencing shit from the 1800s. I'm talking about the state of the market today.

Minimum wage hikes cause coal mining wages to go up. Not the other way around. Quick google search says coal miners make an average of $22.85 in CA. If McDonalds is forced to pay $20, that causes the coal miners to get a jump in wage as well, otherwise they'd just go work at McDonalds for a little less pay and a lot less work.

All of this just causes the prices of everything to go up, from food to utilities. In turn, rent goes up and general inflation increases. If you're a middle class person that works in an office ans has a savings account, your money is now worth less and your bills cost more.

Even if all fast food owners stopped being greedy today and paid their workers $30/hr, the market would catch on and the prices of everything would just go way up in unison to capture all that extra spending money. You can't just force everyone to stop being greedy. I wish you could but that's not the reality of how our world works.

Corporatist argument. Oh noes we cant ever pay people what it costs to rent a place because they'll just raise the rents even more!! Arguing for the status quo just to argue for the status quo.

Living wages can be mandated

Unions can be strengthened

Lawsuits on inflated housing costs can reign in the fact that this happens

Profitability can be capped to a reasonable degree where a company is still profitable but isn't beyond the scope of normal commerce

Stock buy-backs can and should be made illegal, that insulates corporations from seeing their stock market value crash as a result of their own mismanagement.

 

[Gutter Chris]

You're referencing shit from the 1800s. I'm talking about the state of the market today.

Minimum wage hikes cause coal mining wages to go up. Not the other way around. Quick google search says coal miners make an average of $22.85 in CA. If McDonalds is forced to pay $20, that causes the coal miners to get a jump in wage as well, otherwise they'd just go work at McDonalds for a little less pay and a lot less work.

All of this just causes the prices of everything to go up, from food to utilities. In turn, rent goes up and general inflation increases. If you're a middle class person that works in an office ans has a savings account, your money is now worth less and your bills cost more.

Even if all fast food owners stopped being greedy today and paid their workers $30/hr, the market would catch on and the prices of everything would just go way up in unison to capture all that extra spending money. You can't just force everyone to stop being greedy. I wish you could but that's not the reality of how our world works.

You are assuming class warfare is a one way street. It's entirely possible to fight it both ways though with the amount of political corruption that is a difficult fight. That and how divided people are on cultural issues

In a lot of ways I think liberals/democrats shoot themselves in the foot on this one over culture war shit on an almost daily basis. It's a very difficult fight to win when you alienate the very people you need on your side. I think democrats would likely never lose an election again if they stayed economicly liberal but moved back to the center on cultural issues and stopped talking so much shit.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Corporatist argument. Oh noes we cant ever pay people what it costs to rent a place because they'll just raise the rents even more!! Arguing for the status quo just to argue for the status quo.

Living wages can be mandated

Unions can be strengthened

Lawsuits on inflated housing costs can reign in the fact that this happens

Profitability can be capped to a reasonable degree where a company is still profitable but isn't beyond the scope of normal commerce

Stock buy-backs can and should be made illegal, that insulates corporations from seeing their stock market value crash as a result of their own mismanagement.

Hundred percent correct. But the boys are never gonna have the mandate for those kind of policies due to the division of working class people over cultural issues

It's a game Republicans started but the left always plays into the trap.

What to do what to do

 

[StonedLemur]

And if you work a hundred hours a week you'd be able to afford rent in a cardboard box.

 

[StonedLemur]

Bye bye mom & pop joints, time to make way for more big corporate franchises.

That's been happening for over a decade sir.

 

[Sinister]

Hundred percent correct. But the boys are never gonna have the mandate for those kind of policies due to the division of working class people over cultural issues

It's a game Republicans started but the left always plays into the trap.

What to do what to do

Well, I'd argue there's no significant "left" since both parties are largely capitalist-funded. I've said this before, that neither party is truly egalitarian. The only effective difference between the two is that Democrats want the people comfortable in their designated classes, the Republicans want productivity and profitability for the wealthy class maximized and dont care what comforta need to be sacrificed to achieve it.