Official Women's Division Discussion #25

leto1776 said:
All while having no idea who the fighters are. Gotcha.
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I have no idea who Zapittella is, but how is it remotely relevant to the problems with a 105 pound woman's division?

Unless, of course, you're arguing that Zapitella is a trascendent, Ronda-like savior who will single-handedly carry the division. Which is absolutely silly, considering she can barely even finish anyone right now.
 
PolarBearPaulVarelans said:
My "motives" are to discuss WMMA fighters and in this case, point out what a pipe dream a UFC woman's 105 pound division is anywhere in the near future.
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Why do you want to discuss WMMA fighters if you think WMMA as a whole is a disaster, Cyborg aside?
115 is stacked with upcoming talent and there are 2 very tough challengers (Andrade & Suarez) to Rose.
Shevchenko vs. Joanna is happening soon and it's a fantastic fight, possibly the best of all time skill-wise.
 
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executionermma said:
Why do you want to discuss WMMA fighters if you think WMMA as a whole is a disaster, Cyborg aside?
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No, lying retard, I never stated WMMA is a "disaster", merely that it's not a financial draw outside Cyborg right now.

For instance, I'm a fan of Amanda Nunes, a fine champion. Unfortunately, she is simply not a draw for the larger public in the same manner Mighty Mouse wasn't. Her PPVs against Shevchenko and Pennington were both disasters.

My personal appreciation and fandom of her's doesn't change the objective reality that she doesn't make money, and as the current UFC has made clear in deleting the male 125 pounders, money is all they care about.

executionermma said:
How about you go fuck yourself and let this thread to the ones who actually enjoy WMMA?
Fucking obnoxious asshole..
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Pissing your panties in anger again, loser? Go sniff some more glue, mouthbreather.

Edit- I think leto has a tendency to exaggerate and overrate certain fighters, but he was certainly smart to block you.
 
ignorant MMA fan said:
I can't think of one reason American's would want to watch a couple of 105ers point fight each other. They don't care about 125 men so what are two stick figures going to bring to the table?
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When I think of AW fights, I think of one of the greatest MMA bouts ever (men or women), Waterson vs. Penne (ended in a submission)...or one of the greatest KOs of all time (men or women) Jihn Yu Frey vs. Darla Harris...or more recently Hamderlei KOing Yu Frey. Why would anyone think AW isn't exciting? or is just "point fighting"? or doesn't have finishes? I understand that some MMA fans just like kind-of-in-shape, large dudes swinging wildly at each other (a.k.a. heavy weight) and will unfairly pre-judge atom weight. But, when you get down to it, it's just not fair to criticize AW in that way. There is plenty of talent at 105, and a lot of great fights to make.

Jarl
 
I did well backing Ashley Yoder -even though she arguably didn't deserve the decision win- as well as Maycee Barber for the TKO and Germaine de Randamie on the last UFC card. I'm predicting a Poliana Botelho stoppage or decision win over Cynthia Calvillo this Saturday at UFN 140 Argentina. Poliana's striking and power are a level above Cynthia's, she's a little taller, and she was able to stuff all of Pearl Gonzalez's takedown attempts for a decision win and I believe that Pearl is stronger as a grappler than Cynthia. She's also never been submitted, which is probably Cynthia's best chance to win. Pretty confident on this one.
 
To get away from all the arguing, I skimmed through the backstage interview of Maycee and she said that Cifers was by far the strongest girl she had faced. I just thought this was interesting considering the perceived size difference. I wonder if Cifers can make 105 and how much she would muscle the girls at that weight with her farm girl strength.
 
Crud. Likelihood of Ladd testing positive on forbidden substances is again on the rise :(

 
Mittens said:
Crud. Likelihood of Ladd testing positive on forbidden substances is again on the rise :(

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Ladd could use some of Lee’s diuretics, judging by how she looked last time she weighed in.
 
Not necessarily about MMA but figured you guys would be interested on why I have been behind as of late in updating the website. finishing editing my doc on the growth of women in wrestling (who a good third will be transitioning to MMA).

Here is the trailer for it. Going to festival in the spring

 
-Dim- said:
so you are saying...

+ The ufc havnt fucked up the 145lb division badly
+ that TUF 145 is full of 145lb fighters
+ that fighters arent going a year between fights in some cases
+ that fighters arent having to beg for fights on social media or do their own matchmaking
+ that the ufc havnt made an utter pigsear of 125lb
+ that even at 115 they seem to have managed to give the champion a year off
+ that the matchmaking all makes total sense?>

you are saying all these things are false and the UFC can be trusted to run a 105lb division?

I said before, i appreciate you are trying to move into the journalist/blogging sphere and there is a reservation to bite the hand that feeds, but there is no denying that when it comes to womens divisions the UFC do far more wrong than they do right.

I hope they dont open 105 and that the Asian orgs can make it a real prestige division.
I also hope Cyborg gets out of her contract in the spring and heads to Bellator who are at least serious about building 145

I dont understand why someone so passionate about wmma cannot recognise the ufc's many shortcomings when it comes to promoting and running womens divisions. The only possible argument I see for supporting 105 in the UFC is the athletes (some of them anyway) will get more exposure to US audiences than they would in Road, Invicta, One etc.

you also in all your conversations about this refuse to actually address the points people raise or the issues they bring up. Your post above being another perfect example of ignoring the concerns raised.
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105 division is not needed, same like 125 males division.

125 lbs male division was created because they were thinking about asian market, and they failed, they won't make same mistake and create 105 lbs female division.

about Rose's situation, personally dislike her talking about contenders etc.but it's UFC job not her to make fights, they can strip, they can make interim belt, they can make many, many things, but they don't care, Rose potentially could be very good champion for this division, but PR-wise she wasted her last two t victories and there won't be 2nd chance, she have to grind through division sucessfully to get some recognition (and improve PR skills), I don't understand why fans pressure fighters, they don't make fights,it's UFC's job
 
WMMA is a financial disaster because Nunes is a pay per view failure. By the same logic the UFC should get rid of black fighters because Woodley and even Cormier aren't doing great numbers. Meanwhile Cyborg's numbers are as good as anyone without an Irish accent.

Also let's ignore the evidence of the Fox cards and even the current season of tuf - poor as the season ratings are the women's fights are still pulling in bigger numbers than the men.

The UFC getting rid of 125 is a puzzle - boxing thrived for a century with three similar or lower weights, fly 112, bantam 118 and feather 127. Even Mayweather fought half his career at 130. Kind of confirms my old boxing prejudice that UFC fans are largely attracted to big muscular guys with trashy tattoos.

If the UFC is really is turning its back on Asia then that's a puzzle too, don't these guys look at the long-term economic trends? I'm guessing there's more to it than that though.

The 105 division? First off what's with this obsession with 10 pound steps. The step between fly and bantam in boxing was just 6 pounds, it makes sense to narrow the bands when you get to these lower weights. How about a 107 or a 108 division, I'm sure the likes of Waterson would appreciate that. Will we see a UFC atomweight class, well I don't think its completely off the table, but I'm not going to call folks retards if they disagree.
 
Holly over GDR and Vieira is just awful. I get she's a lovely woman. Great fighter. However, her last win came at 145 and before that she beat Bethe Correia.
These morons voting have no idea what they're doing.

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Been watching a bunch of fights from the ATT women recently and noticed something interesting; there's 2 different styles within that camp which is most noticeable in the footwork of the fighters. There's Joanna & Valerie on one side who tend to be much busier & skip around with constant movement and Nunes & Ansaroff on the other who are more planted & efficient with their footwork.

Compared to before, Joanna's doing more running & bouncing around when out of range and less moving while in range (gee, wonder why she's getting hit more?), and she also ends up with her feet out of position when exchanging too often for comfort. This is a problem that Valerie has as well, she bounces around on the outside a lot but when she exchanges she often ends up with her feet level. Also similarities in the way they move in & out and how it's always lateral or in & out movement instead of diagonals & pivots. Watch Joanna vs. Tecia and Valerie vs. Kristina and you can see all the similarities. Gillian Robertson is also in this group.

Nunes and Ansaroff stay in stance a lot more and alternate between shuffling into position and bursting in with strikes or quickly getting back to defend. They don't get their feet level or out of position nearly as much and they're not wasting steps on the outside. They move on angles & diagonals better and are better at getting into good positions. Even against Shevchenko who has the best footwork in the division, Nunes rarely got caught out of position, she didn't get turned around and nailed from the blind side multiple times like Holly Holm did when she fought Valentina.

Personal thoughts. The women in group 1 need to spend more time with the trainers doing the coaching for Nunes & Ansaroff. Also, Nunes has better footwork than Cyborg. Going by their fights against Pennington, she might be just as good or maybe better than GDR in the footwork department.
 
Askafan said:
WMMA is a financial disaster because Nunes is a pay per view failure. By the same logic the UFC should get rid of black fighters because Woodley and even Cormier aren't doing great numbers. Meanwhile Cyborg's numbers are as good as anyone without an Irish accent.
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Amazing how many exaggerations, strawmen, obfuscations, and outright lies there are in just 3 sentences.

Comparing Nunes to Cormier or even Woodley as draws is silly. Nunes vs. Shevchenko did 100k buys and Nunes vs. Pennington did 85k buys, the latter the worst buyrate for a UFC PPV since freaking 2004. This, despite extensive promotion and Nunes demolishing Ronda in 1 minute in a main event.

Woodley vs. Lawler did 240k buys, Woodley vs. Thompson 2 did 300k buys, and even the very weak Woodley vs. Till did 130k buys. Nunes would have to be 2-3 times the draw she is now to equal Woodley, one of the least popular men's champions.

As for "Cyborg's numbers are as good as anyone without an Irish accent.", that's a bald-faced lie.

Cyborg's numbers are okay. Cyborg vs. Holm, buoyed by Khabib being on the card, did 380k and Cyborg vs. Kunitskaya did 260k. Those are not great or even good numbers by any stretch of the imagination. They're just okay. Cyborg is actually the same level of draw as Daniel Cormier is, who you dismissed.

Jon Jones is a much bigger draw than Cyborg, and last I checked, he doesn't have an Irish accent.

Askafan said:
Also let's ignore the evidence of the Fox cards and even the current season of tuf - poor as the season ratings are the women's fights are still pulling in bigger numbers than the men.
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Any factual support for this claim?
 
aerius said:
Been watching a bunch of fights from the ATT women recently and noticed something interesting; there's 2 different styles within that camp which is most noticeable in the footwork of the fighters. There's Joanna & Valerie on one side who tend to be much busier & skip around with constant movement and Nunes & Ansaroff on the other who are more planted & efficient with their footwork.

Compared to before, Joanna's doing more running & bouncing around when out of range and less moving while in range (gee, wonder why she's getting hit more?), and she also ends up with her feet out of position when exchanging too often for comfort. This is a problem that Valerie has as well, she bounces around on the outside a lot but when she exchanges she often ends up with her feet level. Also similarities in the way they move in & out and how it's always lateral or in & out movement instead of diagonals & pivots. Watch Joanna vs. Tecia and Valerie vs. Kristina and you can see all the similarities. Gillian Robertson is also in this group.

Nunes and Ansaroff stay in stance a lot more and alternate between shuffling into position and bursting in with strikes or quickly getting back to defend. They don't get their feet level or out of position nearly as much and they're not wasting steps on the outside. They move on angles & diagonals better and are better at getting into good positions. Even against Shevchenko who has the best footwork in the division, Nunes rarely got caught out of position, she didn't get turned around and nailed from the blind side multiple times like Holly Holm did when she fought Valentina.

Personal thoughts. The women in group 1 need to spend more time with the trainers doing the coaching for Nunes & Ansaroff. Also, Nunes has better footwork than Cyborg. Going by their fights against Pennington, she might be just as good or maybe better than GDR in the footwork department.
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It's not current situation, because Nunes is trained by new ATT coach for Cyborg's fight. Joanna and Nunes had same muay thai coach.
 
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