Post-Vegetarian Rant

[MMA Minx]

This article, albeit long, is a really interesting read. It was included in his book The Omnivore's Dilemma. He battles for both sides of the argument. I still refer to his points about animal's having the capacity to suffer. I am not a vegetarian (anymore) but I do believe in raising animals in a way that is deserving of them giving up their lives for our use.

An Animal’s Place | Michael Pollan

 

[forum poster]

Good book. Joel salatin sure knows how to run a farm the right way.

 

[Mary Jane]

I strongly disagree with Pollan's philosophy because it is based on false assumptions and logical inconsistencies.
For more detailed review read this - The myth of sustainable meat and the danger of the local

 

[dannysmith]

Don't think for one second that wild animals that eat meat, such as feral pigs, bears, wolves, etc wouldn't do exactly what we do if they could. They have to fight for every meal they get (quite literally), so if they were capable of lining up hundreds of thousands of other weaker animals, don't you think they'd do it?

Survival of the fittest. I'm not going to go kill one pig at a time, clean one at a time, and eat one at a time if I have the luxury of getting a weeks worth of pig in my refrigerator.

 

[Eric Brown]

Very true, but so are most other people. I'm a food snob, so forgive me for what I'm about to say - anyone who eats factory farmed meat or dairy on a regular basis is just as stupid and twice as ignorant as a vegetarian/vegan. At least vegetarians are attempting to act morally, despite being ill-informed. That's more than I can say for most meat eaters.

Trying and failing does not make someone superior.

 

[MMA Minx]

I strongly disagree with Pollan's philosophy because it is based on false assumptions and logical inconsistencies.
For more detailed review read this - The myth of sustainable meat and the danger of the local

That's a pretty vague statement you got yourself there. Did you want to elaborate on specific concepts that you disagree with? Also, the article you posted completely lost any validity for me when the author wrote: "Neither Pollan, nor Kingsolver, nor even Salatin is attempting to learn how to weave his or her own clothing, although cotton, as an agricultural commodity, raises many of the same issues as imported food."

Really? That is fanatical nitpicking at it's finest.

He also goes on a rant about how Pollan is sexist for blaming the loss of family meal time on feminism etc. but that is a whole other can of worms... best saved for a thread called "Conspiracies of the Protein Deprived" (just a joke, no need to have the "vegetarians totally get enough protein" debate)

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I eat meat because I really don't care about animals.If that makes me evil, so be it.
If I could I would raise and kill them with my own hands, but since I live in a city, I need to buy it from the supermarket, whatever.

I also think you can maintain a good diet, even if you're an athlete being vegetarian. But I think meat is tasty.It didn't make me fat, my cholesterol is very low, and my health is fine. Long term, vegetarian may be healthier, but I don't care either, noone in my family is vegetarian and most people lived more than 80 years. As I don't really care about living 100 years or something, it doesn't make much difference. Not counting the advance of science, that may make me live a lot even if I eat mcdonalds and drink soda all day.

 

[Mary Jane]

I eat meat because I really don't care about animals.If that makes me evil, so be it.
If I could I would raise and kill them with my own hands, but since I live in a city, I need to buy it from the supermarket, whatever.

I also think you can maintain a good diet, even if you're an athlete being vegetarian. But I think meat is tasty.It didn't make me fat, my cholesterol is very low, and my health is fine. Long term, vegetarian may be healthier, but I don't care either, noone in my family is vegetarian and most people lived more than 80 years. As I don't really care about living 100 years or something, it doesn't make much difference. Not counting the advance of science, that may make me live a lot even if I eat mcdonalds and drink soda all day.

I have much more respect for you than for people who pretend to care for animals and eat them never the less finding all kinds of stupid incoherent arguments to explain themselves. You say you don't care and find meat tasty, that's honest and no bullshitting.

 

[forum poster]

I have much more respect for you than for people who pretend to care for animals and eat them never the less finding all kinds of stupid incoherent arguments to explain themselves. You say you don't care and find meat tasty, that's honest and no bullshitting.

Explain caring please.

Also, that article you posted was just one sad straw-clutching vegan diatribe.

 

[knight]

5) (Bro science incoming) I think if we all took a moment and brought some attention to how we physically feel after eating (short and long term), we

 

[Lizardman]

[biting the troll]

In other news, this whole thread is such a load of crap. :icon_lol:

Especially this part:

I'm sure Diaz didn't have A, B or C when he started doing it at age 15.

First off, grow up.

Second, are you sure the Diaz brothers didn't have any nutritional direction? Two dedicated, professional athletes who've reached the top level of competition and who care more about punching people than basic grammar let alone researching and implementing the intricacies of nutrition?

If so, find me a source.

You changed your diet because of a girl, man.

one part spirituality, one part physical intolerance, one part curiosity, and

 

[Lizardman]

You know, I'm really into personalization and your point made me want to share a question I posted to Lyle McDonaldd on 8weeksout.com.

(stuff)

Lyle's reply:

Meh. If you have actual food sensitivities, it's relevant. Mostly it's bullshit.

Me again:

Could you elaborate on that? I would love to know the mechanics on why it's mostly bullshit.

And then .. nothing.
Don't you just hate it when the experts keep quiet?:icon_lol:

Anyone knows more on this subject? If it takes the guesswork out of the equation and shows what works for you personally, then why not go for it right?

I think that's getting over-complicated, blood tests and stuff. I my layman's opinion, just eat and see what works.

For five years, ovo-lacto vegetarianism worked for me. These days, I eat fish once or twice a week; what and when needed.

Day by day, listen to your body. Week by week, gauge your performance. Be honest with yourself, mentally and physically at all times.

Or get a nutritionist and stop worrying about it? *shrug*

 

[Mary Jane]

For five years, ovo-lacto vegetarianism worked for me. These days, I eat fish once or twice a week; what and when needed.

So what went so horribly wrong all of a sudden that made you open this tread with words "if I only knew"?
And what's in a fish that you couldn't get from vegetarian food?

3) The American vegetarian diet/solution is waaaay out of shape. Vegetarian in Michigan means overdosing on soy, cheese, milk, nuts, etc. In many cases it

 

[Lizardman]

So what went so horribly wrong all of a sudden that made you open this tread with words "if I only knew"?

Moral hypocrisy and sharing

And what's in a fish that you couldn't get from vegetarian food?

A varied diet; Wheat gluten, eggs, and the occasional tofu only go so far.

Did someone force you to eat that shit? I don't eat dairy and processed foods.
Btw - raw nuts don't fit in well with all the junk food you mentioned above. They are very good for you in reasonable amounts - great source of minerals, omega fatty acids and protein.

Nope, but I went into that world blind and ignorant. I grew up on fried chittlins and better made chips dude. Being vegetarian in my family and environment wasn't even possible for the first 75% of my life. I did what I could at the time and it didn't work out, thus sharing my experiences.

Nuts/seeds are great but hardly a significant protein source IMHO.

I am not convinced.

How come you ditched the vegetarian thing instead of processed and dairy thing, which were actually bothering you?
Maybe you should have tried going organic vegan and preparing your own food from scratch instead of buying processed stuff.

I had been vegetarian for a long time before I went vegan. Going organic vegan 3 years back was the best decision of my life. I feel so good and train harder than ever before. It's great!

I still pretty much ditched the processed aspect. Dairy doesn't bother me as I've made the proper adjustments (not eating so much).

Call me crazy, but I believe a varied diet is a healthy diet in most honest respects. I went 5 good years making it despite being effectively malnutritioned. Why should I have to thrive in spite of my diet?

Take B-12 for example. The only vegan option (I am aware of) for B12 is nutritional yeast which is not only processed, but a singular source; no good in a varied diet. The moment I realized my diet depended on something not of the earth (natural) is the moment I decided that diet wasn't for me.

Feel free to educate.

 

[DavidasaurusRex]

I think people who are vegetarian for moral reasons, but not vegan are full of shit and practicing conspicuous conservation, i.e. they get more out of telling people they are vegetarian as opposed to actually being vegetarian.

 

[Slizzle]

Some of you said turning vegetarian wrecked your body? Mind expanding on this?

 

[knight]

Or get a nutritionist and stop worrying about it? *shrug*

Already did that and unfortunately it didn't work out very well in the long run. Now it's just back to the drawingboard.:icon_lol:

I do consider getting me a f'n expensive vitamix since I just dig shakes and it's a great way to fit more "live foods" into my schedule.

I'm well into hormone optimalisation these days and something I've been looking into are the Circadian Rhythms.
I have some Dutch books on the subject and a quick search on google gave me this English source for those who are interested on the subject: Journal of Circadian Rhythms

 

[Flokk]

The "but you kill plants" argument just smacks of weak cynicism to me. Plants don't have brains or central nervous systems or scream. But that's whatever. It's not black and white and you don't have to throw in the towel on vegetarianism because you need to eat to live. There are degrees of morality at play and vegetarianism lands on the "more right" side of things (in addition to overall human health promotion from not supporting factory farming practices). But you knew that already TS, you just tried to forget it.

I'm years in on vegetarian (not vegan) training. Injury free and happy as a pig in shit. I'm a broke assed student so I just make 2-3 big dishes on Sundays (lasagna, beans, homemade veggie burgers, soups, lentil sloppy joes, salads, pasta, chili, etc etc) and supplement them with quinoa and brown rice and veggies and eggs and yogurt, etc etc, through the week. I pretty much eat like a pig which can run me a little extra $$ a week but I find it worthwhile. Blood work is all good as of last month. Nothing to bitch about that comes to mind. Also--B12 can be fixed with shots or dedicated supplements. Talk to your doctor. Also nutritional yeast fucking owns on popcorn and in eggs.

Sorry you couldn't hang dude. :icon_neut

For the person who said non-vegan vegetarians are full of shit... that's a load of crap. Tho some vegs are undoubtedly posers and even closet meat-eaters (lol). Most aren't.

 

[PoundUmOut2]

fantastic read.

i hope you get to enjoy the glory that is beef/poultry again.

 

[RamboJesus]

Im so confused how is being a vegetarian going to ruin your health? Unless you're a complete imbecile, its a cake walk... I'm sorry OP but im calling troll.